This is the Republican idea of taking out your opposition

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DeletedUser

something I would like to point out on this so called Cross-heir map
Democrats did the same thing in 2004 so if this is your Justification for why he did what he did you should look into your history
DLC-Targeting-map.gif

http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647
The map appears on this page of the Democratic Leadership Committee website (dated 2004 during the Bush years). I guess we could argue over whether the DLC counts as “senior party officials” but they’re certainly as much a part of the party as Palin who, after all, currently holds no elected office.

Granted these are bulls-eyes instead of gun-sights, and the targets are states not individual congressmen. But we’re really splitting hairs at this point. This map and the language it uses (Behind enemy lines!) are, if anything, more militant than what Palin used in her Facebook posting.
 

DeletedUser

Good point Giz, seriously.

Just kidding, you fail!

As does your quote.
Seriously.
If you can't see the difference between the facts lined up with Palins map, the shooting, and the name-list compared to your example...

Then you sir, are one hell of a reason towards retireing democracy.
 

Diggo11

Well-Known Member
"Republican" way of taking out your opposition is a questionable generalisation. At present, whilst we can hold reasonable suspicions that Sarah Palin's "hit list" may have encouraged the shooting, there is no evidence the Republican Party or it's representatives arranged for the shooting. So thus far, the onus is on the individual who carried out the act. The individual who holds no confirmed political views, other than being a nutter who believed in conspiracy theories and generally hated government.
 

DeletedUser

"Republican" way of taking out your opposition is a questionable generalisation. At present, whilst we can hold reasonable suspicions that Sarah Palin's "hit list" may have encouraged the shooting, there is no evidence the Republican Party or it's representatives arranged for the shooting. So thus far, the onus is on the individual who carried out the act. The individual who holds no confirmed political views, other than being a nutter who believed in conspiracy theories and generally hated government.

and with that I feel the title of this thread should be changed.
and something I would like to point out as well that Giffords has also been targeted for being a blue Dog Democrat by many Democrat Bloggers including this one
 
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Diggo11

Well-Known Member
Meh. And for the record, as an outsider looking in on US politics, I think The Republican Party are indeed a bunch of nutters. Whilst they may be fine with letting those without healthcare insurance die on the street, I personally doubt any major political party would have the guts to put the bullet through in the first place. Of course, personal feelings aside, I'd love to see some evidence that isn't what may be described as "circumstantial" or "inconclusive" that this shooting was undertaken by Republican authority, or at bare minimum 'mentally fit' Republican supporters.
 

DeletedUser

Are you crazy Hellstromm? This is ridiculous assumption if I've ever seen one, and you don't have anything to defend it with the exception of those loons known as Teapartiers, and not even all of them are insane like this little ! The woman was a Blue Dog Democrat, someone with the same interests of many of the better sides of republicans, so to generalize them all; more specifically as mass murderers, is as preposterous an idea as to claim they all must die.

Gabby Giffords was one of the Democrats that Republicans could like. She not only was in support of the Second Amendment, but she was in support of the Reading of the Constitution just days ago, Pro Choice, and ready to fire at the Health Care bill. The only republican in his right mind that would kill her would need to be severely ed in some way, much like Loughner, whom I doubt is a Republican or Democrat, but I'm pretty sure Republicans wouldn't say Commie Manefisto! or Mine Kamp are their favorite books. I'm pretty sure they'd try to burn them all before doing that. This punk was an Anarchist. Don't reckon that fits in with either ideology.

Maybe you've got the guts to throw blame at Republicans with plenty of others from the left, but you don't have the guts to admitt that a mass majority of them wouldn't ever live up to the 'Mass murderer' statistic, which is something you downright ran from when you created this troll post. Maybe you'd have a more just cause had this kid shot State Senator Linda Lopez, who was first to initiate this big blundering clusterscrew of a blame-game.

GOOD TROLLING BY THE WAY.


My blame's going the Anarchist side of things. He has hated the government forever, had a mixture of readings, and grew out his hair to his shoulders. A dude doing that is usually a cry out to society for some reason, in his sense, I assume he was being a 'Rebel'. He hit eleven people, and killed six. Republicans wouldn't be stupid enough to kill someone on their own side, I don't care how stupid they are or how blue a Blue Dog Democrat even is. She beat out a Teabag commander, so she had support from both parties to do so.

"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous,"
 
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DeletedUser

When you consider the gunman's favorite books were listed as Mein Kampf, We the Living, Plato's Republic and the Communist Manifesto, he's not falling under any particular category, except borderline skinhead, which is par for course when it comes to the Tea Party. . .

. . . she was addressing the loony bin fringe element, otherwise known as the Tea Party . . .

So far this kid fits the typical mindset of a Tea Party advocate, and Sarah Palin's poster was geared for, and distributed by, the Tea Party. So you can try and act like this person wasn't a Republican, just as most GOP officials try to play both sides of the Tea Party, calling them lunatics in one sentence, and praising them in the other just to get their votes. So, realistically, the Tea Party is merely the lunatic fringe of the Republican Party --- and their voting record substantiates this (well, except for the lunatic part. Their words & actions substantiate that).

Ignorance. You have no idea what you are talking about. Nobody has to "act like this person wasn't a Republican;" he wasn't. None of the books you listed would be approved of by Republicans or those Republicans and Democrats involved in the TEA Party movement. Many Americans believe that we are Taxed Enough Already and they are not "fringe."
 
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DeletedUser22575

Ignorance. You have no idea what you are talking about. Nobody has to "act like this person wasn't a Republican;" he wasn't. None of the books you listed would be approved of by Republicans or those Republicans and Democrats involved in the TEA Party movement. Many Americans believe that we are Taxed Enough Already and they are not "fringe."

Maybe its time for the TEA PARTY "spokespeople" to realize that when they call doctors "babykillers" for performing abortion and do things like put out "hit lists" that they are also speaking to the fringe nutters also and there is a good chance as proven by past actions of these nutters that their speeches will strike a chord with part of them.

And this goes for those Fox News "commentators" as well.

When your goal is to inflame and manipulate those whose support your views even if it is to an extent they did not intend they still have some moral responsibility for their actions.
 

DeletedUser

TJ how are you even getting this nut case had anything to do with the Tea party or even the Republican Party. sure she was on a "vote out list" put out by Palin. but she was also put on a "vote out list" by Democrats for being a blue dog. it could be any of these reasons. it could be none of these reasons. at this point we don't know.
 

DeletedUser22575

TJ how are you even getting this nut case had anything to do with the Tea party or even the Republican Party. sure she was on a "vote out list" put out by Palin. but she was also put on a "vote out list" by Democrats for being a blue dog. it could be any of these reasons. it could be none of these reasons. at this point we don't know.

Read what i said again. I did not say these nutters were part of the TEA PARTY or Republicans...I said they need to watch what words they use to inflame/manipulate those out there for their support.

Just because they might not be a "member" of these groups do not mean they won't take action and the "hate mongering" wouldn't have been one of the things they were feeding off of.

Maybe its time for the TEA PARTY "spokespeople" to realize that when they call doctors "babykillers" for performing abortion and do things like put out "hit lists" that they are also speaking to the fringe nutters also and there is a good chance as proven by past actions of these nutters that their speeches will strike a chord with part of them.

And this goes for those Fox News "commentators" as well.

When your goal is to inflame and manipulate those whose support your views even if it is to an extent they did not intend they still have some moral responsibility for their actions.
 

DeletedUser

Read what i said again. I did not say these nutters were part of the TEA PARTY or Republicans...I said they need to watch what words they use to inflame/manipulate those out there for their support.

Just because they might not be a "member" of these groups do not mean they won't take action and the "hate mongering" wouldn't have been one of the things they were feeding off of.

you are still aligning this man up with the tea party. we don't even know what political party he even belonged to. he could have even been a part of The Socialist party of America (they do exist) he could be an avid MSNBC watcher and not even watch/listen to any Tea party or Republican Speech (other then what MSNBC pulls out of context). you keep wanting to pin this on the Tea party but yet only look at half the facts.
 

DeletedUser

"Republican" way of taking out your opposition is a questionable generalisation. At present, whilst we can hold reasonable suspicions that Sarah Palin's "hit list" may have encouraged the shooting, there is no evidence the Republican Party or it's representatives arranged for the shooting. So thus far, the onus is on the individual who carried out the act. The individual who holds no confirmed political views, other than being a nutter who believed in conspiracy theories and generally hated government.

What he said basically. I still doubt that Palins "hit list" was meant to be an assasination map, but I can see how it may of encouraged crazy people to preform violence by seeing where the senators lived. Though I still doubt that the suspect from yesterday actually used it to plot his attack. My guess is that his broken mind that hated the government caused him to attack the politician in his area.
 

DeletedUser

Maybe its time for the TEA PARTY "spokespeople" to realize that when they call doctors "babykillers" for performing abortion and do things like put out "hit lists" that they are also speaking to the fringe nutters also and there is a good chance as proven by past actions of these nutters that their speeches will strike a chord with part of them.

And this goes for those Fox News "commentators" as well.

When your goal is to inflame and manipulate those whose support your views even if it is to an extent they did not intend they still have some moral responsibility for their actions.

I've heard MSNBC spokesmorons ranting of death to their own infidels as well. Both Faux and MSNBC are complete morons lest we not forget. CNN ftw.

Apart from that, we must know that Giffords is still not dead by a miracles sake, and we must think about those who were innocent bystanders and were shot by that little scumball.

What he said basically. I still doubt that Palins "hit list" was meant to be an assasination map, but I can see how it may of encouraged crazy people to preform violence by seeing where the senators lived. Though I still doubt that the suspect from yesterday actually used it to plot his attack. My guess is that his broken mind that hated the government caused him to attack the politician in his area.

Palin's not smart enough to make a kill-list.
 

DeletedUser22575

you are still aligning this man up with the tea party. we don't even know what political party he even belonged to. he could have even been a part of The Socialist party of America (they do exist) he could be an avid MSNBC watcher and not even watch/listen to any Tea party or Republican Speech (other then what MSNBC pulls out of context). you keep wanting to pin this on the Tea party but yet only look at half the facts.

Let me do this differently since you don't seem to get it.

The TEA Party is "anti government" in many ways.

The talk about "taking the government" back for the people.

They are anti tax in many ways.

They are anti immigration in many ways.

They are anti government spending in many ways for "social programs".

No when you preach a strong ANTI message like this and it is additionally fueled by some of these media and rating *****s "news commentators and political activists" out there who not only pass on this message but crank up the rhetoric it does not matter what party these nutters belong to.

What matters is this, the way your message was delivered and does it feed some of their ANTI government views and further twist things in their sick minds.

Do you think that Sarah Palin is not aware that some of these extremest nuts listen to her rhetoric and that it feeds some of their ANTI extremist views. Do you think she cares? There are other ways that she could deliver the same message without doing it the way she does. But if she took that route she would just be another nobody and not attract the attention that she does.

Do you think Glen Becks or Bill O'Reilly are not aware of the same thing..or that they care. All they care about is ratings and making sure they keep them.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/dailybeast/...jA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawNhbmFseXNpc2l0c2E-

When George Tiller was murdered at a Kansas church in 2009, liberal critics savaged Bill O'Reilly for having attacked the abortion doctor more than two dozen times, labeling him "Tiller the Baby Killer." The Fox News host called the criticism "nonsense," saying "evidence shows that Tiller was a gross human rights violator. Yet, because most media people are pro-choice, they looked away. Now they are trying to justify their apathy by attacking us."

Say what you want, Bill O'Reilly bears a moral responsibility for what happened to George Tiller, just as anyone else does when they help fuel similar actions.
 
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DeletedUser

Let me do this differently since you don't seem to get it.

The TEA Party is "anti government" in many ways.

The talk about "taking the government" back for the people.

They are anti tax in many ways.

They are anti immigration in many ways.

They are anti government spending in many ways for "social programs".

stop listening to MSNBC on what the Tea party is or isn't for it doesn't help your case
The Tea party is "anti BIG government"
taking the government back wasn't that what Operation Valkrie tried doing durring WW2 (you must be familiar with this event)
They are anti HIGH tax. the tea party see the need for money to run a small government.
wow just wow anti immigration is not the same as anti ILLEGAL immigration.
and what kind of Social programs you want to talk about how about the ones that enable people to stay on unemployment. like my great grandmother's son (not sure if there is a name for this one) has said the government should slowly degrees how much unemployment is given out with each extension so that that Job at the local store or fast food restaurant will start looking better.
 
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DeletedUser22575

stop listening to MSNBC on what the Tea party is or isn't for it doesn't help your case
The Tea party is "anti BIG government"
taking the government back wasn't that what Operation Valkrie tried doing durring WW2 (you must be familiar with this event)
They are anti HIGH tax. the tea party see the need for money to run a small government.
wow just wow anti immigration is not the same as anti ILLEGAL immigration.
and what kind of Social programs you want to talk about how about the ones that enable people to stay on unemployment. like my great grandmother's son (not sure if there is a name for this one) has said the government should slowly degrees how much unemployment is given out with each extension so that that Job at the local store or fast food restaurant will start looking better.

I don't listen to MSNBC.

I know quite clearly what the TEA PARTY is in favor of. AS far as that Ant-BIG GOVERNMENT, thats nothing more that a whine they throw out there for any spending they oppose.

You want to comment on something quit trying to pull a spider and comment in what I said concerning the anti government similarity between the TEA PARTY and these extremest nutters no matter what party they belong to.
 
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DeletedUser

First off, let's clear up the crap here: The Tucson Citizen reports that Rep. Giffords was "shot point blank in the head."

That, my dear sirs, indicates it was indeed an assassination attempt and not merely some random shooting. So let's not try and minimize it by saying he was on some weekend shooting spree and just "happened" to wing Gabrielle Giffords or, as Gizmo alleged earlier, that he may have been targeting someone else. Giffords WAS the target of this incident, of this there is no doubt.

The Tea party is "anti BIG government"
Indeed, and that's the same call as the GOP. They are --- one and the same. Look, I know you don't like me making the connection, but the connection is huge, and the events that have transpired, the list presented, the two remaining candidates, with Gifford as the first on that list, all of it is obvious. And if it's obvious to me, it would be obvious to a "nutter." So, while I'm not making a conspiracy call, I am indicating that Palin's actions were grossly negligent, at the very least, and her actions, along with people like Glenn Beck and O'Reilly, have been fueling the fires of wing-nuttery for far too long. This --- is the result of irresponsible politicizing. This --- is the fault of the Republicans for not putting a halt to such behaviors. You simply cannot sit idly by whilst irresponsible Republican figureheads encourage criminal behavior. And yet, that is exactly what the Republican party, and it's representatives, have done. By their silence, they provided tacit permission.

something I would like to point out on this so called Cross-heir map
Democrats did the same thing in 2004 so if this is your Justification for why he did what he did you should look into your history
Gizmo, the huge difference with your map and the one presented by Palin, is she targeted specific individuals, literally calling it a, "hit list," in addition to making comments like, "reload." In contrast, the 2004 map was innocuous. When that map first came out, along with Palin's "reload" post on Twitter (and elsewhere), there was indeed a lot of concern in the White House (and, by default, the U.S. Secret Service) that "nutters" would construe her posts as a request to assassinate the Representatives she listed.

This is what I'm stating, because although it may not have been a direct request, it was indeed inferred and an inference is sufficient to motivate a "nutter," particularly when the person making the inference is a political entity of no small measure. Add to that the well-known fact there are a helluva lot of "nutters" in the Tea Party, which is no doubt a radical wing of the Republican Party, with Palin directing many of her talks, and her fliers, to the Tea Party wingnuts. The end result is one of only two remaining Democrat Representatives in Palin's hit list, now teeters on the precipice, in critical condition with a bullet hole through her brain.

A year ago, when Palin's hit list was released, shortly thereafter Gifford's office was vandalized. In response, Representative Gifford stated, "We're on Sarah Palin's targeted list. But the thing is, the way she has it depicted it has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. And when people do that, they've got to realize there are consequences to that action."

Indeed --- consequences. Like the words of a ghost, Gifford's statement made a year ago will haunt the GOP for a long time to come, a foretelling of this tragic day.
 

DeletedUser

I feel sorry for the friends and family of the dead and injured, and hope that all those who were hurt make full recoveries.
America is a violent society. Giving weak-minded young men the constitutional right to own guns shows poor judgement in myopinion. People are held legally accountable for the probable consequences of their actions, whether that was their intention or not.
Hucksters who disseminate violent imagery should be no exception to this principle.
 
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