This is the Republican idea of taking out your opposition

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DeletedUser

Nah, not to 10 pages yet. Besides, whilst the U.S. President made a nice speech, it doesn't dismiss the issue.

A rug, a broom, a sweeping --- does not, a problem, go away.

it does dismiss that fact that any one political party is to blame though. Doesn't sound right but I think you get what im saying. (any one political party is not to blaim in this instants like the topic of this thread suggests)
and for anyone's curiosity 10 pages =100 posts
 
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DeletedUser

it does dismiss that fact that any one political party is to blame though. Doesn't sound right but I think you get what im saying. (any one political party is not to blaim in this instants like the topic of this thread suggests)
and for anyone's curiosity 10 pages =100 posts
I don't get your logic. How does Obama's speech somehow put him, and the rest of the Democratic party, at fault?
 

DeletedUser

I don't get your logic. How does Obama's speech somehow put him, and the rest of the Democratic party, at fault?

were did I say his speech had anything to do with saying the democrat party being at fault? I was pointing out the initiate reaction by the Dems to this event. you know the one this thread was based on.
 

DeletedUser

Ah, so you're saying that because Democratic leaders are once again condemning the militaristic jargon posed by Republican voiceboxes, this somehow demonstrates that Democrats are at fault?

Please, by all means, help me with your logic.
 

DeletedUser

Ah, so you're saying that because Democratic leaders are once again condemning the militaristic jargon posed by Republican voiceboxes, this somehow demonstrates that Democrats are at fault?

Please, by all means, help me with your logic.

they can condemn it all they want but to link this event with it is hog wash

should I even bother to post Obama's saying here (you must have heard it) because it is easily Militaristic/Gang member jargon. "If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun" you can't tell me that isn't just as inflammatory as don't retreat, reload.
 

DeletedUser

I'm going to tell you all, we can do better than this. Some say dogs can't look up; I say we all can look up. This isn't an issue of a man's political agenda. It isn't an issue of a murder. It's an issue of the failure that American Society is becoming by not only breeding this kind of hate and ignorance found in Jared Lee Loughner, but also the hate and blame that troubles the rest of the nation. Every minute, a new question is asked. A new finger rises to point at it's opposite political party, and that finger screams with all of it's might that they are to blame for the insanity.

Maybe the Tea Partiers sent hate mail to Gabby Giffords, attacked her office, and protested her victory. A victory well deserved. Maybe they are fools, and maybe they are good. They wish for good, but they make poor decisions. It's their own ignorance. But I know for sure that they're not entirely stupid. First thing's first; regardless of how annoying the tea partier, Gabby Giffords is still a Blue Dog Democrat. She supports a moderate swing on politics, and there is no need to raise hell about that. And to attempt to kill her is not just a mistake beyond asking for retaliation, but it is a cry that the Tea Party is more than just vile idiots, but actual criminals. No one member would want to murder someone like that, even if, they'd realize that it would bring their party down faster than the bullets sent could fly. And then we must remember the little girl, and the other innocents murdered. No tea partier would do that. That's something seen even as a war crime, where a trained professional could remorselessly kill. A Tea Partier isn't a trained professional, if they're an ex-soldier, they would still retain the discipline to not kill the innocent. And a man to say it was a leftist would be just as crazy to make such an assumption.

"It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have." William Munny (Clint Eastwood) spoke these words in relation to murder; It is indeed true. Many human beings can not stomach murder, much less shooting a child. only the sickest and most twisted of individuals can bare to murder a child; and only those sick and twisted enough would plot their escape to suicide as an aftermath. Jared Lee Loughner was one of these cowards, he had pre-meditated his attack, and he was ready to carry out his master plan. He aimed to kill himself to escape responsibility for what he had done. Only a mad-man would do such a thing. It's a thing we've seen happen a million times over. Those crazed can ONLY resort to cowardice; to give up your life in such a poor and hostile manner, to go down remembered as a coward, a terrorist. The miracle that day was that he couldn't reload, and he couldn't kill himself. The miracle that day was that he could be brought to justice, and we could take him down for what he'd done.

Alas this wasn't just a crazy, and of course, we can not leave it at that as much as we'd like to. He wasn't a product of one political side's delusion, he was a product of many. This man was driven further into a shell of mental instability by a political climate that involved more than just two politicians putting crosshairs over congressional districts. This was a man who was INFECTED by the HATRED that we see everywhere today. It's not one mere act by Sarah Palin; her intelligence and credibility not only lacks such a plot, but the fun pun of crosshairs on districts has been used for ages. It wasn't Rush Limpballs, and it wasn't Glenn Beck. It wasn't Keith Olbermann, Karl Marx, or Ayn Rand.

It was us.

We are ALL to blame for letting our current social climate stoop this low. Even now, we have digressed into a cess pit of hatred, blame, and ignorance. We dribble for facts, historical evidence, the truth, when it's right under our noses. We are BREEDING HATE when we refuse to acknowledge that there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with our country; when you can't have a decent conversation about how things are going economically without passing into a mistake made by a biased political leader. We can't do this. It's not right. If as Americans, we continue to pull ourselves apart; we will see more Jared Lee Loughners; people who rant about the evil of the government! PEOPLE WHO WISH DEATH ON OTHERS FOR THEIR SIMPLE LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE BELIEFS. We can't have this CRAP going on anymore! It's time to put a stop to it, ONCE AND FOR ALL.

WE NEED UNITY.

There is a CURE to this, we don't need the in-fighting anymore. I KNOW that you are tired of this war. A war with no winner. A war against your own people. Liberalism vs. Conservatism has gone on long enough; people always take a stupid side and say somehting about an issue that can easilly be solved by a little hard work. It ain't easy, and if people want to be greedy, it wouldn't be cheap. But, if we can get past getting paid, and improve our financial climate as we would improve our own home, we could get it done. If Liberals and Conservatives would just shut the hell up and work together on creating new ideas to follow and platforms to work, we could get a lot more done, and destroy this senseless climate that breeds violence like mosquitoes.

I am An AMERICAN. To hell with the politics. I don't want to hear about it at all anymore. YOU CAN'T BLAME ONE SIDE AND IGNORE THE OTHER; TO DO SO IS STUPID! There is one thing that we can do to fix this, and that's stuff the finger back in it's holster (or elsewhere if needed, put it down or pull down your own pants or your lovers) and stop the passage of blame when clearly we are all the ones responsible.

"United we stand, Divided we fall." It's an old quotation that doesn't mean two squats anymore to many people. To me, though, it's the change we've been looking for. Since the end of the Revolutionary War, Americans have been on two sides of a fence; today known as Democrat and Republican. What they stand for is irrelevant, as the process has grown entirely inferior. America is dead if we keep this up, DEAD.

My solution is a simple one; Liberals and Conservatives need to put down their guns; they need to put down their words; they need to put down their hands; and they need to start a new revolution against what seperates us all, and we need to unite to repair our country. We aren't safe by hating one another. We aren't safe by passing blame. We aren't safe by encouraging violence; it WILL only create more Jared Lee Loughners.

What WILL work for us, is LOVE, PEACE, TRANQUILITY, AND PROGRESS. Not Progress towards EITHER SIDES agenda, but progress towards REBUILDING the foundations of America, and ensuring that we will have the power to continue to breath for tomorrow.

Now I don't know about you, but I'm sick of breeding hate. I'd say let's make love, not war, but I'd rather say let's just come together and make something useful. Love only lasts so long, but sewing the seeds for a healtier generation tomorrow is essential before we spill babies out onto the tarp.


I say let there be light; but I shall not shine forever. Let the beam illuminate, and mock it's glow.
 
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Diggo11

Well-Known Member
A fine post David, and the most deserving rep I've given in a long while.

As I've asserted throughout the thread, I'm not entirely convinced the shooting was merely a simple case of conservatives killing liberals. However, your post is most certainly correct. The state of US politics if a sorry one, to the point that leaders like Sarah Palin would use repeated death metaphors such as her "hit list" and urging people to "reload", and that each political side has resorted to constant 'hate mongering' as a means of damaging/counter-productive propaganda. What has come of it? Whilst it may or may not be killing simply over political ideals, America has experienced a political assassination and several innocent deaths driven by hate. A hate driven by its leaders, and not only accepted by its people, but actually encouraged. Taught to children, promoted amongst peers.

A nice way to end as we rapidly approach the tenth page, putting a close upon the premature blame game and opening a new discussion about reforming the U.S. political system.

it does dismiss that fact that any one political party is to blame though. Doesn't sound right but I think you get what im saying. (any one political party is not to blaim in this instants like the topic of this thread suggests)
and for anyone's curiosity 10 pages =100 posts
Lol, pwned by David. As demonstrated in fine style, just because President Obama does not lay blame to anyone and happens to cease the blow for blow 'hate mongering' that is presently plaguing U.S. politics, that does not happen to excuse the actions of either the shooter or those of hate mongers exemplified by Sarah Palin (which may or may not have directly led to or influenced the shooting in this isolated incident). An investigation by the police, based upon evidence rather than opinion, will determine who is legally at fault (or otherwise a confirmed influence) in the context of this isolated incident; an isolated incident part of a far larger problem.
 

DeletedUser

Lol, pwned by David. As demonstrated in fine style, just because President Obama does not lay blame to anyone and happens to cease the blow for blow 'hate mongering' that is presently plaguing U.S. politics, that does not happen to excuse the actions of either the shooter or those of hate mongers exemplified by Sarah Palin (which may or may not have directly led to or influenced the shooting in this isolated incident). An investigation by the police, based upon evidence rather than opinion, will determine who is legally at fault (or otherwise a confirmed influence) in the context of this isolated incident; an isolated incident part of a far larger problem.

yes lets all bask in the Glory Gizmo got Pwned by David were the OP gets off Scot free.
 

Diggo11

Well-Known Member
Yep, we all got pwned really, particularly the OP, w00t! I was merely addressing your post which had not yet received a comprehensive counter argument specifically addressed to it.

But no worries, next time I'll arbitrarily ignore you as you wish ;)
 

DeletedUser

Yep, we all got pwned really, particularly the OP, w00t! I was merely addressing your post which had not yet received a comprehensive counter argument specifically addressed to it.

But no worries, next time I'll arbitrarily ignore you as you wish ;)

no I just want you to give credit were credit is due.
 

DeletedUser

+Rep for David. As I indicated in his rep, I don't entirely agree, but I do agree that it takes the whole of a nation to discourage hate-mongering and encourage cooperation, or at least civil discourse on opposing views.

This was a tragedy, no doubt. I did allow my emotions to jump through on the first post, and I held to those emotions through much of this thread. I think others had strong emotions as well. It is hard to see a train wreck coming a year in advance. It is what I, and many others, saw when Palin's poster was made, when her words, the words of many, calling for armed revolt echoed through television screens and print. It is hard to see something coming, and not having the ability to prevent the outcome. This --- is what pulled at my emotions and caused me to spit out my vitriolic opening post. It is not easy to watch a nation you care about slowly destroy itself, to watch figures of authority more interested in front page banners than the welfare of a nation they represent.

I will agree with David, and yes even with Gizmo to some extent, there is plenty of blame to go around. But there are a few that demonstrated gross negligence. There are Federal laws in place to penalize those who have acted in such a manner (Title 18 USC Sex. 2385 --- http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/18C115.txt), and yet no persons of prominence have been charged. I guess it comes down to privilege. The privilege of prominence & popularity to destroy your own nation.

It's a sad affair, and I thank everyone for their participation in this debate. My arguments, and those of others, were indeed offensive, but that is the nature of an emotional debate. Understand there was nothing personal, merely angry rhetoric and an overwhelming sadness for both the victims and the nation as a whole.
 

DeletedUser22575

I tell you what I really find offensive about this whole situation.

1. That the young man who did this clearly needed some help and despite the situation with his deteriorating mental health I think the college he was attending dropped the ball on this. In view of all of the school and college shootings in the recent past I fail to understand how they could just tell him to not come back until he had been cleared by a mental health expert. Students and teachers there felt clearly threatened by his conduct. Yet..best I can tell the college did nothing despite Arizona having decent commitment laws.

Along with this..what did his parents do. They had to know his deteriorating behavior was not normal.

It raises the question...if this young man had received some help was this whole situation preventable.

2. I find Sarah Palin representing herself as a victim despite Congresswoman Giffords concerns about Tea Party violence ...office windows broken...being painted with a cross hair, etc, ...offensive. I have not yet seen anywhere she conceded that as a whole, as a spokesperson...or politicians as a whole need to tone things down. Her "blood libel comments were garbage.

3. I find the Tea Party Express using this as a fund raising event since they are now "under attack" totally reprehensible and disgusting. I don't care if they were unfairly blamed or not...that is just about as low as you can sink.

4. Those who set the tone for the political discourse for us all as a nation will not learn from this. Despite the fact that words are weapons that can influence the actions of others both our politicians and shock jock commentators will continue on in just a few days, this entire episode out of sight and out of mind, business as usual.
 
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