The internet Freedom war has begun.

DeletedUser30834

No, the computer hosting the file makes the copy and transmits it to you. that is how computers work.

Can you show me one prosecution or lawsuit based on copyright that has ever happened on the basis of downloading? There are none that i know of outside of hacking cases. And this is for good reason too.
 

DeletedUser

No, the computer hosting the file makes the copy and transmits it to you. that is how computers work.

Can you show me one prosecution or lawsuit based on copyright that has ever happened on the basis of downloading? There are none that i know of outside of hacking cases. And this is for good reason too.

Maybe there has not been any cases; but rulings like these set a dangerous precedent.
 

DeletedUser

No, the computer hosting the file makes the copy and transmits it to you. that is how computers work.

Can you show me one prosecution or lawsuit based on copyright that has ever happened on the basis of downloading? There are none that i know of outside of hacking cases. And this is for good reason too.
lol, why do you insist on arguing the silliest of points. When you download a file, you obtain a copy of that file. The action of requesting a copy, participating in the receipt of that copy, is illegal. Or perhaps you think nobody gets in trouble for receiving stolen goods?

Anyway, regarding your silly request:

http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/10/technology/bittorrent_lawsuits/index.htm
http://torrentfreak.com/23322-expendables-downloaders-accused-in-bittorrents-biggest-lawsuit-110510/
http://techland.time.com/2011/05/10...s-in-the-us-biggest-illegal-download-lawsuit/
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...ies-file-mass-piracy-lawsuits-are-you-at-risk
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/porn-litigation-film-studios-threaten-and-settle-with-1580504.html

There's more, but that's enough to pwn you, yet again, and move on...
 

DeletedUser30834

lol, why do you insist on arguing the silliest of points. When you download a file, you obtain a copy of that file. The action of requesting a copy, participating in the receipt of that copy, is illegal. Or perhaps you think nobody gets in trouble for receiving stolen goods?
Those points only seem silly to you because a lot of times you have to ignore then in order to maintain your beliefs. You even ignored details here too. I guess i'll answer in list instead of inline.

1: The Hurtlocker Thrown out of court. The Group of lawyers could not produce evidence of infringement and started delaying the cases while attempting to settle with the 47k users sold.
2: is actually part of 1. It's tossed out too.
3: the same as 2 and 1.
4 and 5 are just talking about the same except with porn.

Here is your problem, you only look for what you want to be there and do not attempt to determine the truth of the situation. In all those articles presented, the down loaders were using bit torrent which everyone knows redistributes files by design. That is unless you turn it off in your client. What the companies did to find these people was to grab a file illegally placed on the internet and log the connections of the seeders sending it to them. They do this over and over again with many computers at a time. If the copyright holders or their agents allowed the files to be download from them, they would be giving consent to the downloading of the file and thereby erasing any copyright claims. Under current law, you simply cannot give something you own the copyright for to someone knowingly, then claim a copyright violation for their connections to your act.

This is also why in one of the most famous file sharing cases around, Napster, even with the computer logs of everything everyone downloaded by everyone, they could only use it as evidence against the company Napster and no lawsuit was ever successfully complete against one if it's end users. The same was with Limewire. Turns out that limewire kept logs of their trackers and could have removed infringing content if they wanted to. They also had a limited supply of usernames and IPs of Limewire users but couldn't use that against them either because it doesn't show who was actually sharing the content. In Canada, their courts have actually ruled that downloading only is not infringment of copyright law and they are party to the same WIPO treaties the US and most the rest of the world are.

You will not find one successful lawsuit concerning someone who only downloaded a file unless it contains something else like hacking the system or trespassing or similar. But hey, keep believing the crap they spoon feed you so you do not have to think for yourself. You might as well become an avid FOX NEWS watcher too. Maybe you should actually check to see if you are right before jumping around like a drunken monkey exclaiming how good you are.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser

No Sumdumbass, what happened is the judge, in the case of the movies, indicated the jurisdiction of the court, in which the lawsuit was filed, could only be applied to D.C. residents. This prompted a problem where the movie industry would be tasked to hire an attorney in every State/Country in which a person committed said crime and open cases within each State/country.

In the case of the porn lawsuit, it was indicated by the judge that the attorney would have to file a separate case for each person who committed an act, a cost of $350 per case, or about $7 million dollars just to file the cases.

In other words, the courts didn't toss out the cases, the attorneys (and the respective employers of such) realized it wasn't cost effective to pursue it.

This does not dismiss that it is illegal, only that it is not cost-effective to sue.
 

DeletedUser30834

Lol.. Jurisdictional problems was only part of the reasons they were dropped. The problem here is I asked for cases where someone was prosecuted or sued for downloads only and you gave me flawed threats of cases that didn't achieve anything with no legal papers supporting your actual claim of downloading only.


Either way, it doesn't get around how they picked who "downloaded" the files. As I said, if they distributed it themselves, you have a situation where they consented to the download and cannot claim a copyright violation. They can only file against people who are distributing it without the consent of the copyright owner.
 

DeletedUser30834

An you provided failed lawsuits. IT proves nothing other then what I said. You fail on so many levels I lost track here

I noticed you are ignoring the claim about how they determine who is violating their copyright. If you didn't, you would know I was right. It was actually a trick I pulled on you. Downloading in the vast majority of situations is not illegal. It is the sharing of the content that is.
 

DeletedUser

lol, silly. As I already indicated, the attorneys decided to drop their suit because their initial approaches encountered a cost pitfall, in that it would cost more to sue than they could potentially obtain.

That doesn't prove you're right, it merely proves that it is not cost effective unless the person they are sueing has deep pockets. A judge could, and most likely would, find in favor of the plaintiff (i.e., find the defendent guilty), given sufficient evidence that the defendent obtained (downloaded) the "copyrighted" material. Possession of stolen property is a crime. Downloading "copyrighted" material is illegally obtaining possession of a copy.
 

DeletedUser30834

lol.. what it does prove is that you cannot display any cases that were successfully brought against anyone for downloading only. And every one of those lawsuits you did bring charged for distribution. You have failed, it is as simple as that.

The only way a copyright holder would know if someone downloaded his protected material is if he put it on the web and logged everyone who had accessed it. When he makes it available, he is by default consenting to the download and use. You cannot give someone your car, admit to the authorities you gave it to him, then claim he stole it. Likewise, with copyright, it is the same thing. You will not see any court cases for downloading because they simply do not work.There is no way of finding downloaders without distributing the material yourself.

Now what you will see, and you fell for it big time, is journalist calling the distribution of copyrighted materials downloading and lesser intelligent people believing it was only downloading because they didn't look any farther then the article.
 

DeletedUser

Again you resort to insults. Sumdumbass, they tracked all the IPs that participated in both the distribution AND/OR the downloading of said respective files (kinda makes me wonder if you ever worked with torrents).

Regardless, you specifically asked for, "one prosecution or lawsuit based on copyright that has ever happened on the basis of downloading?"

I fullfilled your request and you're dancing about. If you wittingly, or unwittingly, obtain possession of stolen property, you can be prosecuted. Ignorance is no excuse under the law.
 

DeletedUser

Likewise, with copyright, it is the same thing. You will not see any court cases for downloading because they simply do not work.There is no way of finding downloaders without distributing the material yourself.

I beg to differ. They find people who download kiddie porn all the time. So unless the authorities are actually distributing kiddie porn, they are able to track down-loaders.
 

DeletedUser30834

Again you resort to insults. Sumdumbass, they tracked all the IPs that participated in both the distribution AND/OR the downloading of said respective files (kinda makes me wonder if you ever worked with torrents).

Regardless, you specifically asked for, "one prosecution or lawsuit based on copyright that has ever happened on the basis of downloading?"

I fullfilled your request and you're dancing about. If you wittingly, or unwittingly, obtain possession of stolen property, you can be prosecuted. Ignorance is no excuse under the law.
I didn't mean that as an insult, I'm sorry you took it that way. I figured you were just trolling and the comment was general enough not to include anyone specific.

lol.. you can be prosecuted for knowingly possessing stolen property (unknowingly is a little more difficult because they usually have to show you should have known) if they find out you have it. But that is not a copyright prosecution, it is a state law unless the value is high enough to make it a federal crime. and possession of stolen property is not downloading either. Either way, you showed lawsuits that failed. And the lawsuits were actually about distribution- not downloading. This is just one copy but the rest are the same, it lays the case for distribution because of the way bit torrent works when downloading.
http://www.uscopyrightgroupdefense.com/docs/NuImageAmendedComplaint.pdf

I beg to differ. They find people who download kiddie porn all the time. So unless the authorities are actually distributing kiddie porn, they are able to track down-loaders.
A lot of times, the authorities are distributing it. There was what they called a sting operation a few years back in which they did just this and ended up busting one of the Beatles or Rolling Stones member in the process (who claimed to be doing research of some sort). Agents also pretend to be looking for kiddie porn and end up distributing inside some rings to get access to suppliers. They also place a box that records all internet traffic at the peer hub to determine who was accessing certain sites when they are about to raid one. When a raid is eventually done, they confiscate the servers hosting the stuff and look at the server logs to cross check with the per recordings. Also people get busted for kiddie porn most often when a family member discovers it and rats them out, but there are times when they take the computer to be repaired and the illegal material is discovered that way.

But we should note that kiddie porn is illegal almost everywhere for just possessing or viewing it. It is not illegal to possess or view copyrighted material unless you are intending to distribute it without a license.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser

Alright, stated here, I'm reasonably versed in copyright laws, having previously been a copy center manager and a local newspaper editor in chief (meh, not even sure why I'm dropping creds, except possibly to counter your previous "less intelligent" insult). Trying to argue with me about them is kinda silly. If you go to a copy machine and copy an entire book, the person performing this act is guilty of copyright infringement, regardless of whether he kept it for himself or handed it to another. If he hands the book to an attendant and asks the attendant to make the copy, and such was done, the attendant and the customer colluded in the act of copyright infringement (now, while there is such as thing as "fair use," making or obtaining a full copy of copyright protected material is clearly a violation of that particular clause and the spirit of such).

You seem to have this abstract notion that technology washes your hands of the act. It does not, it only makes it easier to get away with it.
 

DeletedUser30834

Alright, stated here, I'm reasonably versed in copyright laws, having previously been a copy center manager and a local newspaper editor in chief (meh, not even sure why I'm dropping creds, except possibly to counter your previous "less intelligent" insult). Trying to argue with me about them is kinda silly. If you go to a copy machine and copy an entire book, the person performing this act is guilty of copyright infringement, regardless of whether he kept it for himself or handed it to another. If he hands the book to an attendant and asks the attendant to make the copy, and such was done, the attendant and the customer colluded in the act of copyright infringement (now, while there is such as thing as "fair use," making or obtaining a full copy of copyright protected material is clearly a violation of that particular clause and the spirit of such).

You seem to have this abstract notion that technology washes your hands of the act. It does not, it only makes it easier to get away with it.
Technology doesn't remove the act, the act simply doesn't exist. At least not in the way it was framed. You see, while making a complete copy of a book is generally illegal, in the scenario laid out, you would be directing someone to do it for you. In the case of downloading, you come across a site or open a program and the file is offered to you.

So to keep apples to apples here, lets change it to a guy walks into staples (a place known for making copies) and he is greeted by another person already there (Customer/employee from your example). Over the course of the casual interaction, you tell him you are searching for a certain book. He says, I have a copy of that book right here, I will give it to you. You get a copy of the book and purchase a few office supplies and go on with your day. Now, is this third guy who took no part in the copying or distribution guilty of copyright infringement?

Downloading is no different. You enter a search, some site or program offers it to you, you download it and move on. Does the copyright holder approve of the distribution, I don't know and don't care, it is his responsibility to control his rights, not mine.

Now, if I knew before hand that the copy I would receive was illegally distributed, perhaps downloading would have some legal ramifications. Possesion of stolen property or perhaps conspiracy of some sort. But it doesn't make downloading automatically illegal. You have to take part in the distribution or copying of it. When you request a file on a computer to download, you are doing nothing but accepting the copy provided to you. It is how computers work.

The reason why everyone runs around claiming downloading is illegal is because some very powerful groups a saying it in order to scare children away from downloading. It established a mens rea (the guilty mind) which can be used in other actions like conspiracy or possession charges. But it largely a big ploy to make you think you cannot do something when there is no law prohibiting it for the most part.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser15057

I thought it would be timely to bring this thread briefly back to DotCom - there are questions being asked by the local media and public about how he was arrested and to what extent the local police were influenced by US authorities, whether he can be extradited and more importantly why he has not been granted bail for what are seen as non violent offences -

From NZ Herald -
"The arrest of the alleged internet pirate Kim Dotcom and three of his associates last week is questionable both for the manner in which it was conducted and for the official actions that preceded it.
The early-morning raid on his mansion north of Auckland bore an unintentionally comic resemblance to a movie from Hollywood - one of the pillars of the American corporate establishment that has a keen interest in seeing Dotcom in a US court. Some 76 officers, six times as many as took out Osama bin Laden, swooped - a lot more than are deployed against allegedly desperate homegrown criminals, except perhaps for terrorists in Te Urewera. The police also used two black helicopters, so operation commander Detective Inspector Grant Wormald's assertion that "it was definitely not as simple as knocking at the front door" is hard to argue with.

Wormald's dry remark referred to Dotcom's alleged retreat into the house: he is said to have activated electronic locks, which police had to "neutralise", and to have "barricaded" himself in a safe room. The images evoked are straight from a spy movie and irresistibly characterise Dotcom as a desperate fleeing criminal. But people can react strangely when helicopters land on their front lawn at dawn, particularly if they once put a US$10m bounty on the head of Osama bin Laden, as Dotcom did.

The police's colourful version of events was helpfully presented to the news media in a detailed press release - in stark contrast to the neither-confirm-nor-deny response they take to media questions when, say, a civilian is shot by an officer. Elsewhere, Dotcom was described as having had a suspiciously sawn-off shotgun within arm's reach in the "panic room"; it transpired that it was locked in place in a gun safe - although the keys were in the lock.

Depicting Dotcom as a sweating Dr Evil was clearly in line with the police's PR needs, but as Judge David McNaughton remarked, no evidence has been presented that Dotcom has done anything wrong, and there "appears to be an arguable defence at least in respect of the breach of copyright charges". The public is asked to be content with allegations by the FBI, which include conspiracy to commit racketeering and money-laundering. We would not be the first to note that copyright infringement, the central charge against Dotcom, does not carry a heavy enough maximum penalty to trigger the provisions of an extradition treaty.

The extradition hearing is set down for February 22 and, on the face of it, there seems good reason to believe that the application will be successful. That will be a matter of pure legality, but what remains a question for legitimate debate is how Dotcom came to be here in the first place.

This newspaper has no particular reason to go in to bat for a flamboyant, oddball geek, not least because we engaged in a lengthy and expensive defamation wrangle with him, which never went to court. Like all newspapers, we have no sympathy for those who infringe copyright (although it bears mentioning that many millions of people have used Dotcom's Megaupload site for perfectly legal file-sharing).

But NZ First leader Winston Peters and Labour leader David Shearer are quite right to raise questions about the process by which Dotcom was allowed to come here. He passed the so-called character test for residency, but failed the character test set by the Overseas Investment Office when he applied to buy the mansion he now rents.
John Key has blandly described that as "a potential anomaly", but it is a good deal more than that. Most New Zealanders would take the view that if someone is of good enough character to live here, he is presumably of good enough character to buy a house to live in.

Dotcom's criminal record, which he declared to immigration authorities here, has been wiped clean by Germany's clean-slate laws anyway. Regulations that allow someone to walk among us (because he's okay) but not invest in the country (because he's a rogue) are more Alice-in-Wonderland than anomalous.

In short, a legal resident here, which Dotcom is, is entitled to our protection against unreasonable harassment by foreign jurisdictions. It is rooted in a notion, unknown in our law books but familiar to every one of us: a fair shake. There needs to be a good deal of official disclosure about the background to this case if it is to lose the stench that hangs around it."
 
Top