The Easter Showdown discussion

DeletedUser35143

So once again inno make it that you have to use only nuggets, expecting free players to buy so they can have same advantage, nah not for me, i dont waste money on games (unless buying a console game, which i can keep for life if i choose).
Thanks inno for letting the free players down once again ;), cant hate though, nice money maker there ;)

The fact that this free to play game has no advertisings when I am playing the game makes it pretty cool. (Where can you find that these days)
 

DeletedUser8627

So once again inno make it that you have to use only nuggets, expecting free players to buy so they can have same advantage, nah not for me, i dont waste money on games (unless buying a console game, which i can keep for life if i choose).
Thanks inno for letting the free players down once again ;), cant hate though, nice money maker there ;)

Best you stick to console gaming then, especially realizing the fact you need to purchase it plus the games you wish to play. Pity console games don't come out with regular updates and new features every three months :(
 

DeletedUser35143

Best you stick to console gaming then, especially realizing the fact you need to purchase it plus the games you wish to play. Pity console games don't come out with regular updates and new features every three months :(

And if they do you have to pay the purchase price again.
Plus most console games are dull after a day. (24h play time)

I look forward to events in this game... events that I don't look forward to IRL (xmas etc.)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser33051

Thanks for this event inno. Seems like fun. Finally something new into this game. Im looking forward to this one.
 

fortfighter1

Well-Known Member
Have to agree with Da twist, it is your choice to use nuggets in this game if you like. Without them this game would not exist. Of course nugget player have advantage but as non nugget players reach level 120 that advantage decreases a lot. With some skillful playing it is possible for non nugget players to advance in the game fast. Perfect example is Zeta-navy in world 16.
 

DeletedUser

If you do a free duel, what is the drop chance?
I am assuming it's something like:
Common 50%
Un-Common 25%
Rare 20%
Very Rare 5%

Am I right?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser14006

If you do a free duel, what is the drop chance?
I am assuming it's something like:
Common 50%
Un-Common 25%
Rare 20%
Very Rare 5%

Am I right?

Nobody will be able to answer this with any accuracy, but if I had to guess I would say your numbers are ambitious.
 

Ripwise

Well-Known Member
If you do a free duel, what is the drop chance?
I am assuming it's something like:
Common 50%
Un-Common 25%
Rare 20%
Very Rare 5%

Am I right?

Wrong, drops would be more like 100% common, 25% uncommon, 15% rare, 5% verry rare but it is still early to be sure if its really like that!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser

Have to agree with Da twist, it is your choice to use nuggets in this game if you like. Without them this game would not exist. Of course nugget player have advantage but as non nugget players reach level 120 that advantage decreases a lot. With some skillful playing it is possible for non nugget players to advance in the game fast. Perfect example is Zeta-navy in world 16.

i do use nugs lol, but only for the standard premium bonusses like automation, prem income and energy and an occasional halfway time(though i can craft saddle pomels now so that kinda stopped)

but ff1 is right, you can play this game without nugs easily, my w11 account i never used nugs (well atm due to fortfighting i activated prem character) and in 1 year i made it to level 600 crafting, level 120 and finishing every quest there is and having a bank account of 1 million +

there many ways to do it, best way is to learn the market and use the market, and it doesn;t have to be like insane as ace o spade though

same for tombola you can buy every item of the market or you buy 2 and sell 1, for instance i bought numerous natty coats on w16 handed out 4 traded with 3, and sold 3, and the 3 i sold made enough money to cover all expenses i made on buying all of em on the market, even made a profit


about drops, i did on w11 last tombola 60 free draws, and had about 80% common 15% uncommon 5% rare, and 0% very rare... i might be unlucky but i guess figures will be around 80-15-4-1%
 

DeletedUser

It can't be 100% Common. 100% common would mean any other couldn't drop.

Zeta: When I was playing in v1 (I don't exactly remember was it already after the dueling appearance nerfing) and I have played at 99 level cap, at the end of my days it was 120. But I have managed to level only to about 80lvl in about an year. How did you leveled to 120 this fast?
 

Ripwise

Well-Known Member
Yeah, i was thinking differently concerning that 100%, it would be like you said but that is still debatable because tombola still hasn't come out!
 

DeletedUser

Not on .net, but the Easter Showdown is on Beta (where the record is currently 1782 duels, lol). It's probably about the same as the ~80/15/4/1% for the tombola.
 

DeletedUser19518

"With or Without Nuggets, Enjoy This Game." V.
Doesn't matter if someone didn't get all clothes and horses from Easter Showdown.
Work hard to get them, use market, and have some fun out there.

An anonymous or eponymous non premium character.
ViriM ~ World1
 

DeletedUser

Best you stick to console gaming then, especially realizing the fact you need to purchase it plus the games you wish to play. Pity console games don't come out with regular updates and new features every three months :(
I hardly ever get involved in such threads - I usually prefer to keep quiet and stay out of such arguments - but with all due respect (and there is genuine respect, I am not being sarcastic) - I feel your answer is not fair.

I am a non-premium player by choice and I fully understand the need for selling premium features and for Inno to make money. I know I am playing a different game then nugget addicts.

The point is not whining about the advantages premium players are getting - it is the ever growing gap between premium and non-premium players that keeps widening and in the past year Inno's will to make fast money which is totally understandable made the difference between the two types of players beyond comparison. The tombola items, the DoI and before that even the ability to buy all items from the shop without any effort using nuggets give premium players too much of an edge.

You can stick to the old "Inno is a commercial company and it's legit for it to desire to maximize its profits" - and as I wrote above - I totally understand and agree (if anyone cares about my consent).

However - please keep one thing in mind. This game is nothing without premium players paying the salaries of Inno's SW engineers, the rent for the offices and all other expenses the company has. It is also nothing without a community of non-premium players that help keep this game interesting for everyone - premium players as well. On the latest world open on .net, Dakota, we can't fill a large fort as it is today. Even medium fort battles are often not full. Keep discouraging non-premium players from playing the game and you'll end up with even less players around. Do you think the paying premium players would appreciate 15-15 fort battles and will keep paying money for that for a long time ?

Keep giving premium players a reason to pay good money - but don't forget that you also need the non-premium players to stick around - and from where I'm standing - you have made too many wrong decisions in that regard lately.

You can consider me a whiner - or listen to what I am trying to say - and I really do have the best interest of the game in mind (perhaps you'd say it's not Inno's best interest, but certainly the game's best interest). The message you are convoying through all these actions that call for easy and fast money for Inno tell the rest of us that you now see what many of us have witnessed for quite some time now - this game that so many of us love is dying - as it has been for about a year now, and your attempt to get what you still can out of it instead of trying to actually recruit new players by keeping the interest alive for everyone - premium and non-premium players alike, will get all of us the opposite of what we all want.
 

DeletedUser14006

First of all, thank you for such a well presented overview regarding the state of play today.

I do not think anyone can disagree most of the points you raise, I know I was totally sold when reading through it, I had to speak with a few friends about your post as for once I was completely lost for something to respond with that would satisfy your concerns.

In talking with them they highlighted something I would have to agree with, the widening gap that you speak of between premium and non premium players is mostly noticed with dueling as some of the item sets pushed out through the xmas tombola and the soon to be released easter tombola are truly superior to anything you can find in town shops. But in other aspects of the game I do not think they play such a big part in creating an unfair advantage as the biggest factors in fort battles are HP and luck, neither of which are significantly boosted with the item sets.

With regards to jobs/questing, sure Allen's +100 LP is a big boost made available mainly to premium users but this will be moot once the new job system comes into play and skill points will not be the deciding factor in which jobs you can perform.

Identifying the main problem appears to be with dueling, due to the widening gap between premium and non premium players created by item sets that are for the most part exclusive to premium players I think as a community it would serve us well now to try and come up with ideas that could be presented to the developers.

For at the end of the day, without an idea there cannot be progress.
 

fortfighter1

Well-Known Member
I have said in the past that the declaration of independence should have been the end reward for a long quest so everyone could get it, premium and non premium. If people want to buy nuggets to get through the quest faster that is there choice. That would be a fairer way to introduce new items to the game and new quests are always welcome.
 

DeletedUser

Thank YOU for the quick and to-the-point response, Derek.

I did not address all the aspects of the game in my previous message because I think it's true for all of them - but you are probably correct that the worst case is dueling.

Introducing the new sets which are mostly intended for premium players give up to +200 LP (Allan's set + one of the new horse + saddle sets if I understood it right giving +100 LP each). While this might be taken care of in the next update as you mentioned - right now it creates a huge difference between premium and non-premium players. I don't understand the new work system and I truly hope the differences will indeed be reasonable and non-premium players will be able to compete with the premium players in everything even with the inherent disadvantages.

In FF - introducing Natty's sets (clothes + weapons) made the premium players even stronger compared to players using other gear. You may say that the golden set is almost as good as Natty's weapon set and you can find gear that is almost as good as Natty's clothes but that's the point - a premium player using infinite amount of nuggets will hop from one battle to the other, fill his\her HP and use a fort buff all bought from the shop with nuggets, will get his character class bonus doubled and on top of all that will now have superior gear for the battle. The golden set is not easy to obtain - but it is possible for everyone. A non premium player can use crafted buffs for all the above or buy them off the shop with bonds - but Natty's sets are now for premium users only or for non-premium players that were given items by premium players. It seems to be getting harder and harder for non-premium players to do well in fort battles as the advantages of premium grow and that ruins the will to join battles for such players.

I am no expert on dueling nor do I have a dueler character at the moment - so I cannot comment on the difference the new sets and the DoI actually created - but as you mentioned and from what I hear from others it does seem that this is the worst problem. While I can point to the problem - I do not consider myself smart enough to come up with a good solution. You cannot take back the DoI's you already sold and I remember reading somewhere that it will only be sold in the shop in a small quantity - so I guess the only solution may be to introduce an equivalent item that will be obtainable from a quest (like FF1 suggested) - as hard and long as you wish, but still ...

Once again - my point is not to prevent Inno from making money off the game - it's their right and purpose as a commercial company. My point is that forgetting the non-premium players in the process and making the game less desirable for them will end up ruining the game for everyone. Before introducing another DoI or a set mostly obtainable by premium players - please consider the effect it has on the rest of the community. The way I see it an intelligent and committed non-premium player should be able to do at least as good as a less intelligent and not as committed premium player. If you break that you'll find the non-premium players that are still here for what this game once was will lose their desire to stick around
 

DeletedUser14006

Introducing the new sets which are mostly intended for premium players give up to +200 LP (Allan's set + one of the new horse + saddle sets if I understood it right giving +100 LP each). While this might be taken care of in the next update as you mentioned - right now it creates a huge difference between premium and non-premium players. I don't understand the new work system and I truly hope the differences will indeed be reasonable and non-premium players will be able to compete with the premium players in everything even with the inherent disadvantages.

The massive advantage that the items sets give one user over another should be addressed by the new job system due to be introduced in v2.04.

While I do not know exactly how it works here is an assuring snippet from Da Twista's announcement:

Pros: You can't get stuck in quests anymore because at one level you can do all jobs (Even though you might not get a lot out of it because of the malus) and it will be easier to balance quests as they can be connected to a level. This will definitely be a lot easier for beginners. The visual changes will hopefully give the player a better feeling when they see that they reached a new star level.

In FF - introducing Natty's sets (clothes + weapons) made the premium players even stronger compared to players using other gear. You may say that the golden set is almost as good as Natty's weapon set and you can find gear that is almost as good as Natty's clothes but that's the point - a premium player using infinite amount of nuggets will hop from one battle to the other, fill his\her HP and use a fort buff all bought from the shop with nuggets, will get his character class bonus doubled and on top of all that will now have superior gear for the battle. The golden set is not easy to obtain - but it is possible for everyone. A non premium player can use crafted buffs for all the above or buy them off the shop with bonds - but Natty's sets are now for premium users only or for non-premium players that were given items by premium players. It seems to be getting harder and harder for non-premium players to do well in fort battles as the advantages of premium grow and that ruins the will to join battles for such players.

I feel the gap between premium and non premium users in regards to fort fighting is not as big as it may seem on the surface, it has been known for a long time that fort builds work on a diminishing returns basis and once you hit a certain point additional skills provide little in the way of results.

Bearing in mind the average fort fighter is level 80-120, the bonuses from using even standard gear before the new item sets came out could take you to this ideal spot considered to be the point at which to invest no further skills to your fort build. It is considered past this point the only useful skill in fort battles is health.

Sure, Natty Bumppo's set offers attractive bonuses but when comparing the results of players with the set and those without I bet the results do not reflect common opinion about the effect of the item set.

Another thing to consider when discussing the gap between premium and non premium users in regards to fort battles is that the very nature of fort battles is about team work, thus negating the point of a possible advantage being held by an individual.

I am no expert on dueling nor do I have a dueler character at the moment - so I cannot comment on the difference the new sets and the DoI actually created - but as you mentioned and from what I hear from others it does seem that this is the worst problem.

While I maintain my view as expressed in the lengthy DOI discussion about the minimal effect the DOI has as an individual item on dueling it has been noticed that when taking it into consideration with beneficial parts of the xmas tombola and the soon to be released easter tombola this is surely leading to an overpowered build favoring ranged duelists and subsequently premium ranged duelists who manage to acquire these items faster than none premium duelists.

So this goes beyond just comparing the effects of the item sets on premium and non premium users but also between players with different builds ingame and of course, both really need to be addressed.

A quick fix for the secondary problem affecting melee duelists would be to alter the bonuses on the item sets to make them equally fair for melee duelers as well as ranged.

Touching on the issue of premium vs. non premium in regards to acquiring the item sets, I agree with what other folk have said about recycling, it is not beyond the reach of non premium folk to acquire most, if not all of these items (with the exception of the DOI) given enough time and effort, the market is regularly stocked with certain items from these sets, usually headgear and neckbands. In addition to this there are many folk who pass set items onto fellow town/alliance members with a decent discount. I suggest for any non premium to join a big town/alliance full of active people, you will not be disappointed by the generosity of some folk :)

While I can point to the problem - I do not consider myself smart enough to come up with a good solution. You cannot take back the DoI's you already sold and I remember reading somewhere that it will only be sold in the shop in a small quantity - so I guess the only solution may be to introduce an equivalent item that will be obtainable from a quest (like FF1 suggested) - as hard and long as you wish, but still ...

Once again - my point is not to prevent Inno from making money off the game - it's their right and purpose as a commercial company. My point is that forgetting the non-premium players in the process and making the game less desirable for them will end up ruining the game for everyone. Before introducing another DoI or a set mostly obtainable by premium players - please consider the effect it has on the rest of the community. The way I see it an intelligent and committed non-premium player should be able to do at least as good as a less intelligent and not as committed premium player. If you break that you'll find the non-premium players that are still here for what this game once was will lose their desire to stick around

I personally would have no objection to this idea being presented to the developers, I can think of a great many folk with a difference of opinion, refer back to the above linked DOI discussion to see where I am coming from :rolleyes:

Even if they met the wishes of non premium users halfway by introducing future questlines with rewards that mirror the DOI and tombola item sets to an extent.

I would not imagine anyone would be discontented if they did this and made the item rewards slightly weaker than their purchased counterparts, just to close the gap a little from where it currently stands while still giving premium players something deserved of their contribution.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser35143

On Dakota there is a dominant FF alliance that probably consists mostly of paying people.
They have an insane amount of total health each FF.
They are making fort fights boring.

But in the end without the non paying members there would be no paying members.
So yes inno will have to think about that, and I think they did that when they came up with the new job system. Dueling is unbalanced and it doesn't look like that will change.
 

DeletedUser14006

On Dakota there is a dominant FF alliance that probably consists mostly of paying people.
They have an insane amount of total health each FF.
They are making fort fights boring.

You could call that a development flaw I suppose as there are zero restrictions in place to stop it happening but that is the beauty of this game, it is open to move in whichever direction the community decide to take it.

In this case it is solely down to the players of that world to knuckle down and try to re-establish some balance.

But in the end without the non paying members there would be no paying members.
So yes inno will have to think about that, and I think they did that when they came up with the new job system. Dueling is unbalanced and it doesn't look like that will change.

That is not quite true, without non paying members there would still be paying members, just the worlds would be a lot smaller :)

But I get what you are saying and yes, hopefully in time the developers will look into the concerns aroused by the .net community as well as all the international communities.

As I suggested above, I think the best way forward would be to close the gap a little but not all the way, premium users need an incentive to purchase premium just as much as non premium players need some level of balance as to not be cannon fodder.
 
Top