Killing a human whom has illegally entered your home, banish or allow?

[DeletedUser]

In America, some states support the 'Castle doctrine', a law that allows a home owner to defend their home if another man intrudes and/or threatens his life on his property, and by defend, the law means kill to do so.

Should this law be tossed out, or should it be kept? It is essentially the death penalty without trial for someone who may or may not be innocent, but it is also a man defending his home and own life from savage cruelty or even death.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine


Thoughts?

 

[DeletedUser]

If someone is in my house illegally and I feel my family is threatened I am going to do whatever it takes to remove that threat by any means necessary regardless of consequences. That being said the law is protecting the criminal.

 

[DeletedUser22575]

In many states this is now referred to as the "Make MY Day" law.

It varies from state to state with Oklahoma being pretty lenient in its application..there you can shoot them for being on your property and "thinking" you are threatened. Note I did not say breaking into your house...


Colorado has a stricter version of this law. Supposedly they are suppose to be breaking into your house and there is suppose to be a threat to you. Not your vehicle, garage, etc.

However this past week some kid was breaking into someones car and the homeowner stepped out of his house and popped him. Didn't kill him...but there was no threat here. Despite this the prosecutors don't seem inclined to prosecute the home owner and are still "considering it".

In most of the states I have been in where deadly force has been actually used in most of the cases I am aware of (especially Oklahoma) there seems to have been no real threat but the shootings were still legal under the law.

While I am not against this law I do think that there should be a threat to someones life before you kills someone, not them just breaking into your car or garage...etc..

 

[DeletedUser]

a person has the right to protect themselves and there property

you enter my property with the intent to harm me or my family or damage or steal my personal property i WILL defend it

you will be warned it at all possible but if you persist you will find yourself in serious trouble

 

[DeletedUser]

In most of the states I have been in where deadly force has been actually used in most of the cases I am aware of (especially Oklahoma) there seems to have been no real threat but the shootings were still legal under the law.

While I am not against this law I do think that there should be a threat to someones life before you kills someone, not them just breaking into your car or garage...etc..

Yeah, but once it approaches the point where there is CLEARLY a threat, there's most likely a greater risk either you, or your family gets hurt. It makes more sense to me to end the threat before it even begins, just for your safety. I mean someone doesn't break into your house to give you a cake, they're there to do some harm, for me, just the presence of someone who is not supposed to be there is a threat.

 

[DeletedUser]

Yeah, but once it approaches the point where there is CLEARLY a threat, there's most likely a greater risk either you, or your family gets hurt. It makes more sense to me to end the threat before it even begins, just for your safety. I mean someone doesn't break into your house to give you a cake, they're there to do some harm, for me, just the presence of someone who is not supposed to be there is a threat.

i couldnt agree more no sense in giving them a chance to do harm before taking action

 

[DeletedUser]

The problem comes about with exploitation of the laws. Most States refuse to put such a law into the books because it provides an escape clause for anybody who wants to commit murder. They can, for example, invite someone into their home and then put a few bullets in their head.

Laws of this nature are only good if they protect the innocent, not if they provide an escape clause for the guilty. Considering the potential for abuse, it's definitely not one that should be put in the books.

 

[DeletedUser]

If I remember correctly, the law here is a bit stricter. The person has to be inside your home illegally, and an imminent danger to you. If you could escape but don't, or if the person tries to leave because you're armed, it would be illegal to shoot them.

 

[DeletedUser]

In the UK you have the right to use 'reasonable force', which seems about right to me. If someone breaks into your home just to steal your tv it doesn't give you the right to kill them, but if they're endangering your life at the same time, it may. What is reasonable in any given situation depends on a thousand circumstances which cannot all be legislated for, which is why we have a judge and a jury.

 

[DeletedUser8627]

South Africa.

You have to be physically threatened before taking any action against the intruder. If this happens on your premises you take action you will most likely be prosecuted if he was not 'doing' anything illegal, if you are in the actual house you or a family member needs to be physically harmed before you are able to take drastic measures.

I stay in a complex here in Cape Town where there is 24 hour security patrolling the premises and a few months back 2 security guards put a guy in hospital after beating him when they found out he was in one of the residents houses. As far as I know no action was taken on the security guards.

But I do think there are certain boundaries and people exploit the law. Maybe a bit harsh and protecting the intruder but also I see it pointless shooting someone if they just entered your house to steal a TV. It makes one angry that they should not be there in the first place but is killing someone worth it because of a TV?

 

[DeletedUser]

It makes one angry that they should not be there in the first place but is killing someone worth it because of a TV?

Depends on what's on the tele'. :razz:

Seriously though, the problem with these laws is evidence. A guy can kill someone, claim he was attacked in his house, even show a few bruises, but is it sufficient evidence? If there's no one to hear the tree fall, did it make any noise? Well in this case, it's up to a jury to determine if it made any noise or not.

 

[DeletedUser1121]

In Holland, you end up spending the night in jail if you hit him in the face while the thief is back on the streets in 5 minutes. In Holland we like to protect the criminals, although the new goverment said that they would change it

 

[DeletedUser]

In Holland, you end up spending the night in jail if you hit him in the face while the thief is back on the streets in 5 minutes. In Holland we like to protect the criminals, although the new goverment said that they would change it

That's easy enough Desi, convince the police you're the criminal.

 

[DeletedUser]

its stupid in the UK, "reasonable force" should be named to "if you hit them and manage to stop them, you will be persecuted and they will receive compensation and a little slap on the wrist and the story will probably end up in some newspaper or local TV"

 

[DeletedUser25707]

In Holland, you end up spending the night in jail if you hit him in the face while the thief is back on the streets in 5 minutes. In Holland we like to protect the criminals, although the new goverment said that they would change it

Oh Desi it get worse where I live... a woman almost got strangled by her husband and she saved herself by stabing him with a knife killing him in the process. She got tried for murder, court ruled it as "excess neccesary self-defense" and sentenced her to 8 years in prison... so basically, even if you fight for your life and kill someone in selfdefense you'll end up in prison.

Then again, that verdict could have been [and sadly probably was] a result of corrupt judicial system considering guy's parents were local "bigshots"... and that same court had some other dubious rullings.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well I have nothing much against this idea....If someone wants to rob you,I guess they're going to be prepared,and armed.I believe that you won't do so much with bare hands....A gun or a rifle could help.
But if someone has the guts and nervs to come to my house and endanger the lives of my family,there's nothing wrong in self defence,that could sometimes end up in death.
I can say from my own experience.I got robbed once,but the killer didn't go far.

True,at that time I had a gun with me,so he didn't got anywhere.
And no I didn't shoot at him,it was a unarmed man,just with a knife,so no need for violence,right?

But,if my family was there I wouldnt hesitate.Anyone will agree with me if you were there.

So,if you can avoid the death,both yours xD and the robbers,its great.But in most cases it could end up bad.So try to lock and secure your house/flat,and don't fear.Fear attracts these things.I was a bit scared at first about this,and it then happened.So no fear.

EDIT:And who ever gave me the green repy,I must say that was the funniest one ever!xD
Well yes I did own a gun,and I went to shooting classes,so a headshot is really possible .But that's just me.xD

 

[DeletedUser1121]

I don't own a gun and never plan to do so. So, i can't agree with you.

But i can tell you this, when i hear someone in my house at night, i will just stay on the first floor with my wife and kids. They can rob the whole place if they want to. I am not going to risk my life for some goods. If i would go down, chances could be i end up at the wrong side of a knife and i value life over some material stuff.

When they would come up the stairs, i still have no clue what i would do. I am no hero, but i do have some self defense skills. No telling what to do untill you have been in such a situation. And i try to not get in one.

 

[DeletedUser]

I don't own a gun and never plan to do so. So, i can't agree with you.

But i can tell you this, when i hear someone in my house at night, i will just stay on the first floor with my wife and kids. They can rob the whole place if they want to. I am not going to risk my life for some goods. If i would go down, chances could be i end up at the wrong side of a knife and i value life over some material stuff.

When they would come up the stairs, i still have no clue what i would do. I am no hero, but i do have some self defense skills. No telling what to do untill you have been in such a situation. And i try to not get in one.

I am a girl,and I don't own that gun no more.And I agree with you.No material thing is more valuable than a life.But at that time I usually go with a gun downstairs when I hear something.xD I didn't know who it was until I didn't hear steps.Then everything was clear.
I was more curious than wanted to save anything.Heck Its not important.

But my ego is a good servant,rather than master.Only the thought "Who are you to enter my house and steal something??"drove me to point that 6 kilo gun at him.
I think he wouldnt be alive now if there was my family at that time in the house.Just that protective way of thinking would be the end of that guy.

So,to continue back on the topic.

 

[DeletedUser]

I hope this isn't too far off topic, but I have a related question. If you were to shoot an intruder in your home and kill him, only to find out it was someone you knew but didn't expect to be there (child, sibling, spouse, parent, etc.) would/should it be considered murder or an accidental death?


My run-on sentence of the year!

 

[DeletedUser]

I hope this isn't too far off topic, but I have a related question. If you were to shoot an intruder in your home and kill him, only to find out it was someone you knew but didn't expect to be there (child, sibling, spouse, parent, etc.) would/should it be considered murder or an accidental death?


My run-on sentence of the year!

If this question includes my case,I don't shoot until I'm a 100 % it is an intruder that is about to attack me.Or just aim.xD
And again,I didn't shoot! Just to clarify that..xD

Well I believe that you could be sued and maybe go to jail even if this happens.