improve adventurer's class bonuses

dankolo

Active Member
Proposal
Me and many other players are demanding change of the adventurer class, which is very weak at the moment at every aspect of the game. The character bonuses aren't really useful so they need to be changed.

Current Workaround
Adventurer class is very weak in comparison to other classes.

Details
So lets put it all together every character bonus one by one.

1. The chance to find a product when working a job is increased by 10%.
  • Its a nice bonus, which comes in handy when doing jobs, collecting products.
  • The problem is there are many new sets which allow any character class to have very high product drop rate.
  • With all the new sets it looses its singularity, also like the worker's xp bonus, dueler's speed bonus.
  • Resolution: Increase the bonuses for all 3 classes:
    1. Adventurer: old value: 10%, new value 15%
    2. Worker: old value 5%, new value 10%
    3. Dueler: old value 10%, new value 15%

2. The chance to find an item during work is increased by 10%.
  • Resolution: No comment there, same as previous. Old value: 10%, new value 15%

3. You can use hotels in foreign towns for free until level 2.
  • The most useless bonus in my opinion.
  • Resolution: leave the bonus as it is, but add higher regeneration when sleeping (30% non premium, 60% premium)
4. The chance to get hurt while working a job is lowered by 10%.
  • Resolution: No change
5. Starting with hit 2 within one round of a fort battle, you have a chance of 25% to keep from being hit at all for the rest of the round.
  • This is the main problem with adventurer.
  • The one and only PvP bonus that the class has, is constantly weakened by updates.
  • The fact is that new updates bring better damage items. This brings adventurers to the biggest disadvantage ever as the other classes are benefiting from the new sets way more than advents.
    • Soldier:
      • HP and leadership bonus, with new sets constantly benefits from his character bonuses.
    • Worker:
      • similar to soldier, even better. Constantly benefits from new sets, as damage or tank.
    • Dueler:
      • no comment on that, most unbalanced class in game. Not due to its bonuses but thanks to new sets which basically increase leadership, damage and chance to hit and that makes them very strong against tanks.
    • Adventurer:
      • At the end of the day every class benefits similarly and can be strong with damage build. Adventurer however doesn't benefit from it at all.
      • new sets make his bonus constantly only worse, they struggle at fort fights with HP build or damage build, change is needed.
  • Resolution:
old bonus: Starting with hit 2 within one round of a fort battle, you have a chance of 25% to keep from being hit at all for the rest of the round.
new bonus: Starting with hit 2 within one round of a fort battle, you have a chance of 30% to keep from being hit at all for the rest of the round. First shot received in a round is always not higher than (200 + 5% of your maximum HP). I am not exactly sure about the numerical values but reducing the first shot seems to me like good resolution for this problem.

Abuse Prevention
I am not aware of any possible abuse caused by this proposal.

Visual Aids
Nothing to add.

Summary
This proposal should fix current problem of the adventurer class, therefore I am asking developers to consider review and implement it as soon as possible. Other players are welcome to express theirs opinions add ideas. If I missed something let me know.

Administration
Does this idea meet the Ideas Guidelines & Criteria? Yes/No
Does this idea appear on any of the Previously Suggested Ideas List? Yes/No
 
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asdf124

Well-Known Member
First shot received in a round is always not higher than (200 + 5% of your maximum HP). I am not exactly sure about the numerical values but reducing the first shot seems to me like good resolution for this problem.
Damage reduction for first shot is silly, one can just simply have none leadership players shoot first to counter that.
 

asdf124

Well-Known Member
I assume that you play fort battles as dueler. You know that damage is boosted so much that a 10k advent can go down in 6 shots ?
What about the other suggestions of percentage reductions for everyone? except capping the percentage depending on the amount of HP?
 

mapwin

New Member
Hey!
I'm not sure if buffing the bonuses is the right way to go, when adventurer is already a very popular class for anyone who just wants to quest and craft.
As for fortfights, in my realm we found out that, besides blocking off sectors and capturing flag, a really strong use of adventurer bonus is to use them as the main tank on any tower.
The basic idea is, since the leadership characters are so strong(both dueler and worker), a tanking combo of "adventurer+your common resistance heavy tank" yields great results for prolonging the phase of the fortfight where you can occupy structures as defense. The adventurer is soaking up a few heavy hits of the imbalanced leadership guys while the tank next to him tanks the rest of the damage from other classes.
Imho, changing adventurer bonus only would only address the symptom not the cause of the problem. The damage in fortfights is way to high. Normal hits from tanks in a buffed sector go up to 800 just by wielding your basic weapons. A blanket fix would be to decrease all fort rifle damage by 25-40% at least. And cut the bonus sector damage at least in half, +300 is way to much of an advantage for attack.
 

dankolo

Active Member
Hey!
I'm not sure if buffing the bonuses is the right way to go, when adventurer is already a very popular class for anyone who just wants to quest and craft.
As for fortfights, in my realm we found out that, besides blocking off sectors and capturing flag, a really strong use of adventurer bonus is to use them as the main tank on any tower.
The basic idea is, since the leadership characters are so strong(both dueler and worker), a tanking combo of "adventurer+your common resistance heavy tank" yields great results for prolonging the phase of the fortfight where you can occupy structures as defense. The adventurer is soaking up a few heavy hits of the imbalanced leadership guys while the tank next to him tanks the rest of the damage from other classes.
Imho, changing adventurer bonus only would only address the symptom not the cause of the problem. The damage in fortfights is way to high. Normal hits from tanks in a buffed sector go up to 800 just by wielding your basic weapons. A blanket fix would be to decrease all fort rifle damage by 25-40% at least. And cut the bonus sector damage at least in half, +300 is way to much of an advantage for attack.
sorry but why would you use advent as a tank ? its so bad compared to a soldier or worker... and even dueler with hp is better tank cuz he doesn't ghost
 

asdf124

Well-Known Member
Hey!
A blanket fix would be to decrease all fort rifle damage by 25-40% at least. And cut the bonus sector damage at least in half, +300 is way to much of an advantage for attack.
That is a very bad idea, you have to think about why people bought nuggets in the first place.

THat's just a PR nightmare waiting to happen if that ever happens :D
 

craka009

The West Team
I just find funny how inno managed to get Duelers OP in Fortfight and Soldiers OP in duels. I think ALL classes need to be reevaluated and adjusted to what they were initially designed. But that is just my opinion.

About your proposal:

Duelers: More speed for duelers? they already duel anyone in the map without speed buff... why increasing the speed by 5% (10% premium) Duelers should get a duel bonus, people already say they have money (if opponent doesnt have +3k its not worth it, you can do more money working 10min wasting less HP), watching bonuses from gear in duel page? you can also know bonuses if you spend 2min looking on tw-calc, the only thing they have is duel from without moving, that was usefull when it took someone 30min to move from one side to another but not takes 7min to cross the map in speed gear lol. So why not add something directly to duels skills? soldiers have HP for ffs leadership for ffs and well tct for duel wich i think should change since they are suposed to do fort fights. About FF skills... again duelers are duelers should get that huge damage boost in ffs but... again only my opinion

Advents: More drop chance for Advents sounds good, incrase of regen sounds good as well since advents are suposed to work jobs, Since FF also has a luck factor when dodging or not (like every other aspect in this game) luck from advents should be applied on jobs, duels and FFs.

Workers: increase of exp sounds good too, and their ff bonus i could imagine they get the aim/dodge bonus cuz they usually build stuff so know where to hide/snipe and such (thats what i could imagine for a worker irl fort fight)

Soldiers should change tct bonus they get for DUELS for leadership bonus, that will increase their chances to dodge. And make better tanks, i've seen 26k tanks go down in 2 rounds...
 

mapwin

New Member
sorry but why would you use advent as a tank ? its so bad compared to a soldier or worker... and even dueler with hp is better tank cuz he doesn't ghost
"Are you serious? i just explained why"
That is a very bad idea, you have to think about why people bought nuggets in the first place.

THat's just a PR nightmare waiting to happen if that ever happens :D
Yea well, in the current state gear got powercrept so much that you can either have few people complain or forts go extinct because of bad balance decisions. If union officers set is an example of things to come(the summer spirits set proves it further) fortbattles will be in a very bad shape. I mean hell, non crit damage of leadership characters is already above 1700
 

ScarletKisses

Active Member
It would be great to see advents get a better deal all round.. Most advents i know are done within a few rounds now with the high damage workers and duellers do..I also think the exp needs to be looked at as we get very little exp from FFs while damagers and tanks get lion share.. Seems very little motivation for anyone to choose advent if they want to FF
 

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
It's not only Adventurers that got the short stick, not anymore.

This ever-increasing damage & Hit chances is a very big issue for any Tank. It killed Tanking, it killed Defenses (Tower and Wall bonuses almost irrelevant and u gotta bail very soon) and it almost killed FFing.

Issue is even bigger on the newest server Idaho. As if the amount of Duelers wasn't enuf, even Adventurers use Union officer/Phoebe set nowadays. Of course lots of Tanks stopped playing or stopped FFing instead, or gone with some awkward skills.

Why?
Lot's of reasons that are related to each other.
But it's mainly because Rewards are heavily in the favor of Damages. And as it happens, Damage sets are plenty and very strong -especially Union Officer was the last nail in the coffin.

Of course it wouldn't be as bad if the Formulas was up-to-date and balanced + the way Resistance was changed to Percentage base instead.
 

mapwin

New Member
It's not only Adventurers that got the short stick, not anymore.

Why?
Lot's of reasons that are related to each other.
But it's mainly because Rewards are heavily in the favor of Damages. And as it happens, Damage sets are plenty and very strong -especially Union Officer was the last nail in the coffin.
The fortbattle rewards are just outdated. Bonds are usable only during new years sale, and the exp and money from fortbattles is so little that you make much more in 10 minutes doing 15 sec jobs(especially if you use the new and overpowered sets). Just give adventurers +1k flat exp for every time their bonus works.

Of course it wouldn't be as bad if the Formulas was up-to-date and balanced + the way Resistance was changed to Percentage base instead.
If you make resistance percentage based it will limit the design space of further sets. Lets say zapata is 50% resistance, the next set would be at least 60% to be a real upgrade, and so on.
I think that, unless we are talking about a full fortbattle redesign, decreasing the weapon damage(and sector buffs) of everyone would be enough(since leadership damage bonus is just multiplying the weapon+sector dmg). I'd remove crits from the game too.

I'm not sure what everyones fort battles in other communities look like so i'll post a few links of my experience in the last few month
https://www.westforts.com/ru16/battles/battle/39975
https://www.westforts.com/ru16/battles/battle/39990
After 15-20 rounds its impossible to tank anything, at 30 rounds there is no hp.
Forts that go on for 50 rounds are such a rarity and they usually look like this
https://www.westforts.com/ru16/battles/battle/40001
 

Testor

New Member
I think a big part of the problem with the Adventurer class when it comes to fort fighting compared to other classes is the fact that it's the only bonus that is event triggered. Soldiers and Workers just get a constant bonus, no matter what. Duellers only get a bonus 10% of the time, but it's not really triggered, so much as just a virtual roll of a die. But Advents get the disadvantage of a die roll, but only if an event happens first. On top of that, the event is basically a literal double negative, since they have to be hit twice to even be able to roll that die (which is something one should really want to avoid in the first place). I would say if the basic bonus had to be kept as is, I'd rather see the trigger for the Adventurer bonus be removed. In other words, the "ghosting" ability is just a straight up percentage to happen each turn (which is what the Dueller's critical hit chance is) regardless of being hit first.

The other, slightly more minor problem with the Adventurer is that there isn't exactly a "role" in fort fighting that fits. Duellers are undeniably an "offensive" roll, in that they are about damage. Soldiers kind of don't have a clear role, in that they are sort of tanks and support troops rolled into one, but both those are clear roles in and of themselves. Workers are sort of "generalists." Adventurers tend to be used as "breachers" (when attacking), but their bonus doesn't exactly fit that, since occasionally not being able to be targeted (after taking a few bullets first) doesn't help break through gate blockers and clear a path.
 

dankolo

Active Member
Guys I like your ideas and reactions, but keep in mind that ADVENTURER is the worst class at the moment and needs to be boosted. The new updates screwed up every tank but even more adventurers. That's why we need a few simple changes. Not sure if we can ask for reworking every class and stuff... its more likely to get rejected if we ask for complicated changes.
 

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
Adventurers do have their own role. Just can't do it properly when there are so high damages like nowadays.
However they are still effective and needed to Block the towers/walls to deny the proper mounts. Battles that don't involve enough of them is duller, worse.

I agree that their Class bonuses (same as Duelers') shouldn't be just a "Roll a dice" thing though.

That said Soldiers and Workers getting constant bonuses doesn't remove the RNG factor for 'em.
But yea, right now Workers have the upper-hand in everything. They will do more hits, more dodges whether they are Leaders--t or Tank.
That's why we need a few simple changes..
It's not as easy as it sounds..
The issue is very old now, and lots of related issues stacked on top of each other cause they didn't act when it was needed.

And no, we can't just ignore the fact that all Tanks are screwed, just because Advents are more so.
Hell, others die faster nowadays.
 
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RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
On a side note;

I'd love to have a class bonus for Soldiers that actually helps outside Duels and FFs.

I don't like Dueling, and if I don't join FFs too (because they SUCK lately) , the Hp bonus is totally useless like all the rest.
So no point in wasting Nuggets on Premium.

At least other Classes have something.
 

Crazh

New Member
Ok, first of all, the West isnt just about Fortfighting, but it seems that those players that stick with the game are mainly FFers. That being so, I agree that the different classes (Soldiers, Duelers, Workers and Advents) are not even, but what really needs to be addressed is the fact that as a noob, once you make your choice, you are not allowed to change. You can change your skill and attribute points , you can change your Town, You can change your Alliance but once you make your choice on what class or profession you want, you cant change it. For Professions, if you choose Tonic Peddlar and get to lvl 700, you should be able to start on a different profession, and with Character classes, once you know the game, surely you should be able to change classes, Inno changes the buffs for each class so surely we should be able to change too, especially if just new to the game, maybe make it permanent at lvl 100 which means they can switch any thyme before that but once they reach 100 thats it, I dont really know, just offering suggestions, but bumping up one class over another is what has been going on for the last 5 years, its a way of getting ppl to spend nuggets, but its not a way to keep ppl in the game, when they first start, if they dont latch onto a good knowledgeable friend, they have no idea which Character class or Profession to take and shouldnt be limited by their lack of knowledge in the game,
just my opinion,
nuff said
 
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Bucksnort Hawkins

Well-Known Member
It would be great to see advents get a better deal all round.. Most advents i know are done within a few rounds now with the high damage workers and duellers do..I also think the exp needs to be looked at as we get very little exp from FFs while damagers and tanks get lion share.. Seems very little motivation for anyone to choose advent if they want to FF
That's because the Adventurer class lacks profit margin according to InnoGames at this current time. A sales weasel at Inno needs to make a hell of a PowerPoint for anything to change.
 

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
That's because the Adventurer class lacks profit margin according to InnoGames at this current time
Yea after u screw them (and Tanks) tons of times, u can't really expect a profit from them can you?

It'd change A LOT if they actually bothered to balance the rewards slightly in favor of Tanking (or Blocking for that matter) though.
Like including "Hp loss" there.

At the least there'd be something to compensate the lack of Damage, which happens to give the big part of the rewards, specifically Xp.
 
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