I'm Gay, but if I admit it I will be shunned.

DeletedUser

so then by that logic....'as for adopting it is naturally to expect that straight couples will raise a kid as straight...'

so if straights only raise straights then where do gay people come from?

i'd bet all my cookies that straight people raise more gay people than other gay people do.

Its all the percentage thing mate, imo most of the kids raised by straight people will be straight, and most of the people raised by gay people will be gay. Not all of them for sure.


It makes me really sad that you are not allowed to protest injustices in your country. Maybe instead of hating on the gays because for some reason they are allowed to, maybe try and get involved in politics to change that. If your government doesnt work for the people you have a responsibility to change it.

I don't hate them, i just want set of logical priorities, and i am sorry to say but gays are not very high there, chance for people to live decently and earn enough to feed themselves and their children is way higher on that list.
By chance i am pretty close to informations here and you wouldn't believe what amount of systemic corruption is here. System is absolutely rotten and i don't want to spend my life to fix something unfixable. First chance i get i am taking my girlfriend with me and moving to western europe/australia/scandinavia.
 
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DeletedUser

Its all the percentage thing mate, imo most of the kids raised by straight people will be straight, and most of the people raised by gay people will be gay. Not all of them for sure.

Again, no evidence.
 

DeletedUser

i dont believe anyone was born gay you choose to be gay so stop using the word born gay also how do they really enjoy sex the penis was made for vagina for insertion (sorry for the word but because of topic ) and imagine if everyone was born gay then we wont be here discussing this topic the reason was to be fruitful and multiply that is why GOD created man and woman. Well i believe they should be treated equally but in the bible there is a quote that homosexuality is forbidden cant remember where the quote i will have a look and see if i can get you the quote.The reason why kids use gay as an insult is because society has conformed to adapt to using the word as a joke or abusive language. I am neutral here and i dont mind but it is very strange
 

DeletedUser

@anarchy11: I completely understand your point, but I ask you to re-think your logic. Who benefits from workers being angry at gay/lesbian/bi/trans/queer people and glbtq-persons being angry at workers? Not the workers, not the glbtq-people, but the capitalists. So if you want to get things going better I think you should try to build alliances instead of fighting. (Also: the two groups that you have been led to pit against each other are not exclusive. There are a lot of workers that are also glbtq-persons, by the current rough estimate that is commonly used where I live 10% of the workers in your country are gay/lesbian.) The divide and conquer tactic is so old and works so well, that the ones in power don't even have to ask us to use it anymore, we will voluntarily find another unrelated group to fight against just so we don't have to face the massive work it requires to overthrow capitalism.

@jarpenguin: please stop being such an US:er, the situation in your country is not equal to the situation in the rest of the world, nor is it as good as you are trying to paint it here. You may have a lot of nice things in your laws, but that is very different from the actual life of real persons both inside and outside of your borders.

@bible/god-refering people: well, suck it up, I have a book here that says the world is ruled by rainbow colored unicorns. In it it says that people sprout from the ground where the unicorns have wept.... (more random stuff someone wrote in a book). And yeah, this book is really old too! You are free to believe anything but please stop using it as facts of life. Ok?

/Edlit
 

DeletedUser

@edilt no one is forcing you believe in the bible you can believe in what in like if really your old book is saying truth how many unicorns have u seen wept on the floor and people sprout out according to your own words not my saying. And between have u even witnessed a unicorn real life LMAO :D
 

DeletedUser

Well, that is my point, I wont use my book to prove my point so I ask you to not use yours. Simple, isn't it?!

/Edlit
 

DeletedUser

Again, no evidence.

I tried using common sense, if thats unknown concept to you i'll find video on youtube.

@anarchy11: I completely understand your point, but I ask you to re-think your logic. Who benefits from workers being angry at gay/lesbian/bi/trans/queer people and glbtq-persons being angry at workers? Not the workers, not the glbtq-people, but the capitalists. So if you want to get things going better I think you should try to build alliances instead of fighting. (Also: the two groups that you have been led to pit against each other are not exclusive. There are a lot of workers that are also glbtq-persons, by the current rough estimate that is commonly used where I live 10% of the workers in your country are gay/lesbian.) The divide and conquer tactic is so old and works so well, that the ones in power don't even have to ask us to use it anymore, we will voluntarily find another unrelated group to fight against just so we don't have to face the massive work it requires to overthrow capitalism.

Story is a bit different here, government would sell their souls to enter EU so they could justify their existence, part of conditions for that is LGBT rights, parades etc. People seeing that, and feeling lack of their own rights for which no one cares, feel bitter and start to hate. Most of the people here are deeply in apathy, and they're starting to accept the situation since they believe nothing can change (and they're right).

As for capitalist, they finance all the political parties and laws are made to suit their own needs, basically they have every single one of politicians in their own pocket, and they don't need to bother with gay - ordinary people conflict to keep people away from them, they have police and other state mechanisms to do that for them.

sorry for the offtopic but needed to clarify some things.
 
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DeletedUser

well well @edilt my book proves allot and most all the words there are pure and simple truth you might believe it if you want or not. how many things in that can you tell me that is wrong he who kills by the shall surely die by the gun. and in real life it is the truth
 

DeletedUser

I tried using common sense, if thats unknown concept to you i'll find video on youtube.

Common sense huh?

People are born gay, it is not a choice. Therefore, no one can be "raised" gay. Why don't you use your "Common sense" to actually look up some information before assuming things?

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07161/793042-51.stm
http://www.aacap.org/cs/root/facts_..._lesbian_gay_bisexual_and_transgender_parents

Let's take something out of my second link that I found interesting:

What effect does having LGBT parents have on children?
Sometimes people are concerned that children being raised by a gay parent will need extra emotional support or face unique social stressors.Current research shows that children with gay and lesbian parents do not differ from children with heterosexual parents in their emotional development or in their relationships with peers and adults. It is important for parents to understand that it is the the quality of the parent/child relationship and not the parent’s sexual orientation that has an effect on a child’s development. Research has shown that in contrast to common beliefs, children of lesbian, gay, or transgender parents:


  • Are not more likely to be gay than children with heterosexual parents.
  • Are not more likely to be sexually abused.
  • Do not show differences in whether they think of themselves as male or female (gender identity).
  • Do not show differences in their male and female behaviors (gender role behavior).
 
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DeletedUser

i dont believe anyone was born gay you choose to be gay so stop using the word born gay

Hi there. Could you do me and yourself a favour? So here's the task:
Next week, you choose to be gay (it's just one week, don't worry about long-term impact). Post here during and after that week how you feel about being gay. How you feel sexually attracted to the same sex. Maybe it's your best buddy. Where you met the persons you feel attracted to. How you disregard the sexual attractivity of persons of the other sex altogether. How your partner or crush or other persons you find hot now, are completely meaningless to you in regards to attractivity.
See you next week.


In my country we have a new law that forbids workers to strike outside their factories, they have no right of showing their dissatisfaction or right to fight for their rights. Many of them did not got their salary for months, yet they have no right to protest.

Not being allowed to strike outside their factories and not being allowed to strike at all are two different things.
There are strict rules for strikes and congregations in general probably in every country. I doubt a gay parade would get accepted anywhere/anytime.
 
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DeletedUser16008

Interesting opinions here guys,

What effect does having LGBT parents have on children?
Sometimes people are concerned that children being raised by a gay parent will need extra emotional support or face unique social stressors.Current research shows that children with gay and lesbian parents do not differ from children with heterosexual parents in their emotional development or in their relationships with peers and adults. It is important for parents to understand that it is the the quality of the parent/child relationship and not the parent’s sexual orientation that has an effect on a child’s development. Research has shown that in contrast to common beliefs, children of lesbian, gay, or transgender parents:

Are not more likely to be gay than children with heterosexual parents.
Are not more likely to be sexually abused.
Do not show differences in whether they think of themselves as male or female (gender identity).
Do not show differences in their male and female behaviors (gender role behavior)
.

I'm in total agreement with this above finding nor is being gay a condition im certain of that, there will always be some that can be influenced no matter what on anything so you'll of course be getting the people that flip flop or are confused sexually in their personal life one way or the other. That tends to put them under a bisexual swing rather than a full Homosexual one but there are also those who are simply confused and looking for comfort wherever it may be. There are also the clearly born that way as well ....

There are definitely those born gay and those that are not born gay as well that much its so obvious you'd seriously be blind to not see it.

Same sex relationships have been around probably since the dawn of time. There would be many reasons for this. We see it in the oldest civilizations also, Greek, Roman, Chinese, African, Sumerian, Egyptian, Persian, Aztec, Inca, Native American, Indian etc . Human History is full of rules and doctrines & and they swing back and fourth as society rises and wanes, ebbs and flows. This is nothing new or unusual.

Here is the only references in the Bible about homosexuality and punishment

LEVITICUS20:13
'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have
done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will
be on their own heads.'

Yet how about reguar relationships ?

DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21
If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately.
DEUTERONOMY 22:22
If a married person has sex with someone else's husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death.
MARK 10:1-12
Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced.
LEVITICUS 18:19
The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman's period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.
MARK 12:18-27
If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.

That is just a sample & there are many more.

I think we can conclude that the bible is wayyy out of date and irrelevant to real life relationships.

My own conclusion is being uncomfortable with someone that is "different" to you is perfectly normal & its a genetic historical tribal thing, and I mean that in general encompassing everything. Sexuality is very central to human behaviour and therefore relationships are likely to produce stronger feelings in one way or the other. We are all subject to influence yet we all have freewill and at the end of the day make our own choices. That is the way it should be.

If you are Hetro or Homo or even Bisexual it matters not. What matters is simply how you treat others and how you wish to be treated, live and let live and neither force your will on another nor let them force theirs on you.
 
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DeletedUser

Not being allowed to strike outside their factories and not being allowed to strike at all are two different things.
There are strict rules for strikes and congregations in general probably in every country. I doubt a gay parade would get accepted anywhere/anytime.

There WERE strict rules regarding congregation, like announcing the rally to the police and getting all the necessary licences, now it is NOT ALLOWED.


People are born gay, it is not a choice. Therefore, no one can be "raised" gay. Why don't you use your "Common sense" to actually look up some information before assuming things?


People are born gay, no question about it, but besides that child can be molded in every possible way. You can make a killers out of them, you can also mold their sexuality. Of course there will always be exceptions to the rule, but that doesn't change a thing.

To add one personal experience of mine, not directly related to the subject. I saw a lot of kids (now grown man) who were raised without one parent (in this case the father) and i must say, most of them are messed up. Point is: child need role models of both sexes to develop into healthy individual. And yes there are exception to that rule.

Vic said there will be people confused about their sexuality, can't imagine anyone more confused than a kid raised by the same sex couple.
 
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DeletedUser

@vic do u remember there are 2 sides of coin the bible have new and old testament you just cherry picked what favors your argument well everyone has got the right to be treated fairly am not disputing the fact but just imagine how a kid will feel if he see everyone parent dropping them in school being man and woman and his parents are gay teh kid would ask this question why am i different? and feel much more left out of society that is why the society is full of crazy dudes nowadays. It is this same rule will you hunt the society of the west one day and the whole world.
 

DeletedUser16008

@vic do u remember there are 2 sides of coin the bible have new and old testament you just cherry picked what favors your argument well everyone has got the right to be treated fairly am not disputing the fact but just imagine how a kid will feel if he see everyone parent dropping them in school being man and woman and his parents are gay teh kid would ask this question why am i different? and feel much more left out of society that is why the society is full of crazy dudes nowadays. It is this same rule will you hunt the society of the west one day and the whole world.

New old whatever... if you wish to discuss the new or old testament thats new thread, the new isnt even real as a book anyways its a mish mash of selected books for the current king james version....

As for the confusion thing I would strongly disagree. Children will only be confused if the parents fail to do their job properly as parents. If the child is loved and brought up correctly it should be no more confused than a child within a single parent environment, yet i dont see anyone saying thats confusing, why not ? ..." i cant think of anything more confusing to a child than only having one parent"...sounds just as silly. Or mixed race children or one where there is a very large age gap etc

Children are surprisingly adaptable and accepting and don't have the hang ups we adults do. It's really uncool to suppose other than having two fathers or indeed mothers a child would be confused anymore than having only one parent or a stepfather/mother or maybe 2 or even 3 step/siblings no one suggests they are confused but you can see it could very well be.

Think about what your saying, your view is based on your beliefs and whats been drummed into you by your society and parents and peers etc. It dosn't effect you as your not gay so whats the problem ? and tbh you don't have a right to judge others choice of how to live anymore than another does you.

Let me ask you few simple questions.

If your child chose to marry a different race person to you would you care and why ?

If your child grew up and chose to marry the same sex would you care and why ?

If your child grew up and chose to marry someone from a different country would you care and why ?

If your child grew up and chose to marry into a different religion would you care and why ?

And if the answer is different to any of those questions why ?
 

DeletedUser

Children are surprisingly adaptable and accepting and don't have the hang ups we adults do. It's really uncool to suppose other than having two fathers or indeed mothers a child would be confused anymore than having only one parent or a stepfather/mother or maybe 2 or even 3 step/siblings no one suggests they are confused but you can see it could very well be.

Think about what your saying, your view is based on your beliefs and whats been drummed into you by your society and parents and peers etc. It dosn't effect you as your not gay so whats the problem ? and tbh you don't have a right to judge others choice of how to live anymore than another does you.

Let me ask you few simple questions.

If your child chose to marry a different race person to you would you care and why ?

If your child grew up and chose to marry the same sex would you care and why ?

If your child grew up and chose to marry someone from a different country would you care and why ?

If your child grew up and chose to marry into a different religion would you care and why ?

And if the answer is different to any of those questions why ?

I've seen the damage that can be done by lack of one parent, I am afraid what this same sex mix could do.
As for my view, i make my own conclusions, and i manage to see good and bad in everything, whether its religion, liberalism or anything else. What really ticks me off is how people that consider themselves liberal and progressive manage to spill intolerance and hate if they see
something they don't like (not you in this example, was aiming at jarp). What happened to freedom of speech and right of a man to be a p...k if he wants to?

We all judge Vic, whether we want to admit it or not. I accepted the fact that i was, am and will be judged for what I am, and it doesn't bother me, in fact i encourage it, although it may be offensive for me I am glad that people are taking a stand no matter is it right or wrong, hateful or not. In fact in several local pubs in London i heard people commenting on me assuming i don't know English. Comments were mainly "fookin polish", i only smiled at that, for two reasons, first i am not polish :p and second, i am glad that someone makes attempt to think with its own head, even if it gets him to bunch of wrong and hateful conclusions. Never wanted to live in jehovah witnesses brochure. :p :)

As for questions:
1. Honestly, have no idea, not much different races here, so it never crossed my mind. While i was in England one my best mates was Nepalese if that helps you.
2. It would bother me, a great deal. I am traditional guy, I believe in some order of things. Not sure how could explain why is that more closely.
3. Wouldn't approve it, but would accept his/hers decision except i would be opposed to a marriage between balkan nations, s...t will hit the fan here again sooner or later, and that would complicate things.. During this balkan wars a lot of marriages fell apart due to different nation or religion. And in many cases clash of different cultures is a good recipe for a divorce. Don't want that for my child.
4. Mainly same answer and same reasons as the previous one.


Now if i can ask you a few

Do you see people of different nationalities/races in your country as equals?
How many of those people are your close friends (you visit each other, go out to drink etc.)?
What's your first thought when you see an immigrant working on some building site?
 
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DeletedUser

good question anarchy victor seems one sided opinion well for all i care this debate will go on and on for as long as possible we cant do nothing about it all we have to do is adapt.got
 

DeletedUser

good question anarchy victor seems one sided opinion well for all i care this debate will go on and on for as long as possible we cant do nothing about it all we have to do is adapt.got

So you're calling him one-sided while all of your arguments have come from a book written 2000 years ago?

I've seen the damage that can be done by lack of one parent, I am afraid what this same sex mix could do.
As for my view, i make my own conclusions, and i manage to see good and bad in everything, whether its religion, liberalism or anything else. What really ticks me off is how people that consider themselves liberal and progressive manage to spill intolerance and hate if they see
something they don't like (not you in this example, was aiming at jarp). What happened to freedom of speech and right of a man to be a p...k if he wants to?
I do not consider myself a liberal at all actually, I consider myself centrist to the extreme, going left or right on certain issues such as this. Intolerance and hate? As far as I know, I've asked you to show facts to support your opinions (Of which you still have given none by the way).

We all judge Vic, whether we want to admit it or not. I accepted the fact that i was, am and will be judged for what I am, and it doesn't bother me, in fact i encourage it, although it may be offensive for me I am glad that people are taking a stand no matter is it right or wrong, hateful or not. In fact in several local pubs in London i heard people commenting on me assuming i don't know English. Comments were mainly "fookin polish", i only smiled at that, for two reasons, first i am not polish :p and second, i am glad that someone makes attempt to think with its own head, even if it gets him to bunch of wrong and hateful conclusions. Never wanted to live in jehovah witnesses brochure. :p :)
Everyone judges, it's a part of human nature whether you like it or not. I feel no need to hate of people because of these judgements I make of them, I don't hate anyone really. I may dhate their ideals, but I do not hate them as people.

As for questions:
1. Honestly, have no idea, not much different races here, so it never crossed my mind. While i was in England one my best mates was Nepalese if that helps you.
2. It would bother me, a great deal. I am traditional guy, I believe in some order of things. Not sure how could explain why is that more closely.
3. Wouldn't approve it, but would accept his/hers decision except i would be opposed to a marriage between balkan nations, s...t will hit the fan here again sooner or later, and that would complicate things.. During this balkan wars a lot of marriages fell apart due to different nation or religion. And in many cases clash of different cultures is a good recipe for a divorce. Don't want that for my child.
4. Mainly same answer and same reasons as the previous one.
Not related to me.

Now if i can ask you a few

Do you see people of different nationalities/races in your country as equals?
How many of those people are your close friends (you visit each other, go out to drink etc.)?
What's your first thought when you see an immigrant working on some building site?
This is not directed at me, but I chose to answer them anyway :p

1. Yes. As a member of a racial minority myself, I don't look down on anyone because of where they are from or the color of their skin.
2. Unfortunately, there is little diversity in the place that I live. That being said, as I am not white, almost every single one of my close friends count as a different race as me :p
3. I can't really tell just from looking at them that they are immigrants :p However, I'm sure that you are implying a hatred of hispanic immigrant workers in the U.S. I personally do not mind at all if an immigrant "steals" a job from an American who has lived here their whole life. Everyone is trying to make a new life for themselves in this wonderful country, why would I care if whether their family immigrated 200 years ago or just yesterday? As for the original question, I don't think I'd think anything out of the ordinary.
 
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DeletedUser16008

Interesting answers Anarchy and its refreshing to read a post made from the heart rather than from on high so to speak :)

Correct we all judge whether we want to or not, try to or not, its impossible sometimes not to judge according to our make-up culture and experience. Im neither Pro nor Anti Gay. I'm non plussed either way regarding this topic, I simply don't care what someones sexual preference is and if im honest I don't understand why anyone else would be bothered either. I don't see it as a threat or undermining anything and as its only going to affect people one to one who choose to be a part of it and its never going to affect me personally either.

London is a city of extremes, very diverse and as a result will also have reactions. It is a place where as a local in large parts of London I am the minority and also feel that way. but hey ho no biggie Ive spent a good portion of my life as a minority one way or the other and you get used to it, develop a thicker skin than most and just get on with it.

Nice to have answers Anarchy that are honest, the why part was not a trick question but supposed to be hard to answer if not impossible as most will be a feeling not anything you can pinpoint.

My answers in return are.

1. Yes i see them as equals humanely, not necessarily socially in contributions for what gets taken out or patriotically, if we had a national service here you can bet 2/3 of the non British born would leave ASAP

2 Very Close friends I have a core of about a dozen of which about half are second generation British ... good friends I have from all different cultural backgrounds and sexual pref etc casual even more so. I am at ease ive found with nearly all groups, probably due to my moving around the world for about a decade or so.

3. LOL I ran a building employment agency and used to import skilled migrant workers ( welders ) before there was an open European policy so no problem there, I will say that in the past ten years the influx has ruined the payscale on building sites here in the UK for all concerned both indigenous and otherwise and I got out of the business when i saw what was coming a long time ago.

abskay I don't care about the bible either so its hardly one sided, start a new thread on it the new testament is nothing more than a comic and will gladly provide further argument as to why and where it comes from but thats not for here.
 

DeletedUser

all i have to say is love you all for who you are if i say anymore i know i will always be quoted
 
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