Fort XP

[DeletedUser9470]

nonsense, had he taken for the team earlier on, the team would all have had more hp, thus the enemy would have died quicker.
do a bit more thinking and you'll see it some day.

 

[The Iceman]

I don't know why you even bother debating with -Neo- Elmyr
You could be 100% correct and he would still argue with you, as it's not about the comments, it's about him being an obsessive attention seeker
I would have thought you would have seen right through his ploy by now

 

[DeletedUser21816]

A tank is useful in both scenarios. As long as they came online. Or followed offline orders.
In any way it's all about teamwork, no matter how you turn it. Sacrificing your life at the beginning or the end for the greater good is what it's all about.

And what Elmyr said is true, seen it happen several times. When a tank was sitting on a tower without getting hit once, because the offense never came his way, and gets online in the second half of the game. Where they are almost outnumbered by the offense and takes point at that same time, he'll win that battle for the whole team. Even if he dies or stays alive.

Same goes for offense where he goes to the north corner (as told). Shoots several people from that area. Offense didn't get further then the next north tower and have to bail back due to less hp. He comes online at the second half, takes the whole bunch behind him, giving them an energy boost, by not quitting and win it, even though he might have died after 5 rounds taking point.

No matter how you look at it teamwork is what it's all about. Learning to take orders and not hiding for the whole game while everyone else gets shot and you're still with full 2000hp hiding behind a 300hp in the end is just selfish

 

[DeletedUser]

ANYway, yes, that example was silly, but there are all kinds of situations where one person's actions are crucial to the win and there is just know way to quantify it. Singling out early hp loss just doesn't make any sense, and I'm speaking as a tank who tries to tank his turn on point, not as someone who's apparently completely incapable of starting a battle with full HP. How about penalizing your XP for selfishly showing up without your full HP and weakening your side?

How do you quantify this battle for XP?

1. I start on point. I'm hoping to do exactly what you suggested deserves XP, but it's a two-sided attack and it's not full, so the east side is porous and I don't have many guns.

2. I prefer not having to dodge without a sector bonus, but I move to the NE corner to let anyone else coming north get behind me.

3. I take the DT moat. Again, I could have taking the SE-most square and had less guns on me, but I leave the safer square open in case a blocker bails behind me (although the blocker bails to the west side of the moat instead) and to lessen the risk of bumping someone from the DT trying to take the moat.

4. Now I have the option of taking an open DT spot, and I COULD have taken it, but I opt to let BrutusAco have it and plan on blocking the wall instead.

5. I wait a bit for movement towards the wall, but it never comes, so I mount when the wall is almost empty.

6. They mount when they clear the west north wall sector, so I drop inside to block. I hold back a couple rounds to make sure there's enough other blocking that I don't need to go for the flag instead, then I move straight in to the north center sector inside.

7. And hold there until the end of the battle.

Was I being selfish? I had many opportunities to be selfish. I could have held on the WT for several more rounds than I did. I could have mounted the DT when there was a spot (and I would have gotten it with my rank and leadership), but I didn't. My most selfish act during the entire battle was my initial plan to go through my hp early and then just worry about myself.

But there is nothing you can quantify and say this deserves XP.

 

[DeletedUser]

But there is nothing you can quantify and say this deserves XP.

There is actually, but since I'm not getting the point of the original idea in the first post... I'll skip it. In a way, trying to get a fair XP distribution in a game before classes get changed and balanced is not rational.

Even if you will say "Jox, cut the crap there isn't!", I bet you'll agree that there is a thing you can quantify and say this doesn't deserve XP. And that's gaga's playstyle on w12. Idling and letting others (in fact taking others as morons who must protect her for whatever reason and are with lower health actually) to jump in front of her and loose their heads while she collects XP and boxes. Oh, she deserves XP for reserving the best spot on dueler tower and not letting other duelers on it? And not switching anyone ever! Well... If we'll look it that way, then others who let her do that but don't do it themselves don't deserve XP, right?

 

[DeletedUser]

The quantification of heroism can be approximated by high volume activity.
Hits + Dodges + (HP Lost / 1000) + (Damage Inflicted / 1000) = XP
Hiders will have hits and di, but no dodges and hp loss.

 

[DeletedUser]

Duelers are justified in hiding to an extent, because they just do more than their share of damage and battles are just as much about removing the enemy's hp as bringing your own, but yeah, if and when it gets to the point their hp would be more useful than their damage they do need to step up. We lost a defense on w12 to a flag run a month or so ago by about 200 hp. There was one dueler (and no, it's not your favorite, Joxer) on the back of the ST with 900+ hp and everyone else could take about one hit. If the dueler had taken point, it would have given us at least an extra shot or two and probably the win. [Again though, nothing is cut and dry. If he was hitting and no one else was, his living would have given us a better chance than everyone else living.]

Then there's my late round clean up scenario. I've had many battles where someone without a lot of hp left and enough guns left on that side to have a very good chance of killing them take point and sacrifice themselves to shield 5 or 6 others who can't take more than a hit or two. In an attack without enough time to take the flag, it can be the difference between a winning and "having to step back".

In those situations it comes down to relative hp. The problem with any bonus or penalties based on situational actions is coding it so people aren't rewarded or penalized unfairly. What happens when you have a 10k hp tank offline in a tower on the wrong side? If you have less than 10k hp can you hide all you want? Will the offliner be considered a hider?

Do you say these bonuses and/or penalties and relative hp only apply and are affected by you if you're online? People with bad connections can appear offline for most of a battle and yet still move every round. Are they allowed to hide all they want with no repercussions? If offliners aren't eligible for bonuses, how would this affect the selflessness of some offliners? Some offliners are the least selfish people in a battle, putting themselves on point with no opportunity to bail (though some of us will arrange a swap), or blocking with the same, but not even the possibility of an offline swap, and possibly with no LOS for most of the battle.

 

[DeletedUser]

Wait... As I've said, in this game version it's not possible to distribute XP in a fair way. We can only number examples where XP should be huge and where there should be no XP or even a penalty, but that won't get us anywhere. Devs should polish game classes first, in fact we should wait till devs add this (taken from devblog):

the character migration, and a new multiplayer event thing similar to fort battles

 

[DeletedUser9470]

I understand your point E and looking at that battle you did, my playing style is very similar.
Your moves are pretty much perfect, imho all the players in the same sectors as you should have been doing this.

no doubt orders were to
block north
front out
fill north towers
fill north wall
flag run

Looking at the pics not many actually followed orders. or were very slow.
Why?
They couldnt work out how to move?
They dont understand the orders given to them?
They know theyll get better damage by staying put on a tower?

In that same battle there are a load of guys full of hp hanging around the ST and WT who should have been moving north ASAP to relieve people from their posts.
If both north towers filled the north wall leaving north towers for those coming from south, and then peeled off inside as they lost HP, the enemy wouldnt have stood a hope in hell in even mounting the wall, let alone getting inside.
On top of that casualties would have been minimal.

At the end of that battle I count 16 onliners still with full HP
How many people from your side died unnecessarily?
As much as your actions were perfect, the actions from most werent even close to good, and classed in the selfish hider section.
That is my point.

If there was incentive to lose HP then these players would be more inclined to actually follow orders.
I'm not saying to base it solely on losing HP, keep damage done and dodges, thus giving incentive to also stay alive, but make losing hp a factor.
Ofc losing hp right at the end of a battle is useless to everyone, so this factor should diminish as the rounds go by.
Think about it man, its not as stupid as you may initially have thought.

 

[DeletedUser]

I understand your point E and looking at that battle you did, my playing style is very similar.
Your moves are pretty much perfect, imho ...

His moves are not perfect and if I've understood him right he could have played the whole thing differently and maybe even more efficient. What stopped him? He can say this and that, but what stopped him is his side's dueler tower group.
See... He waited than jumped on the north wall in one moment. How come he had to do it instead of lazy backsides on dueler tower? That reminds me on the plague that should be solved prior to XP distribution going on on both worlds I play... soldier tower is constantly fiilled with HP monster - idlers! Online oor offline, once they set their foot on ST, they won't move away from it sniping or something else even if their real life is at risk. For god's sakes...

 

[DeletedUser9470]

How come he had to do it instead of lazy backsides on dueler tower?

that's the whole point I make in the previous post. did you not read it?

 

[DeletedUser]

I think it would help if the devs/CM said what factored into fort xp. Doesn't need to be anything specific. With the general formula I provided several posts ago, hiding would look foolish even to hiders.

 

[DeletedUser]

that's the whole point I make in the previous post. did you not read it?

Sorry, missed it.
I'm kinda edgy lately since the official statement that Zet's moved to another project. And I have to remind you that it's one of developers who actually visited this very forum on a few occasions!

 

[DeletedUser30224]

I am sorry if this was in the debate somewhere on this topic, but I would say that in order to have a better shot on xp you need to be online, and you need not be hiding.

As an example, for the team that wins in a scenario where both sides filled the fort by at least 75%, those players that have 0 dodged shots and 0 damage received and were offline all battle will get a penalty of 10% and those that were online for at least 50% of rounds, will get a penalty of 35% and NO box for top damage.

Also, in the current battles, there is no xp boost for the damage received. I have no idea how to propose this to be fair regarding soldier and non soldier classes, also premium and non premium, but something should be put there to reward the damage taken in a battle. Simply put, good dodgers do not get lots of damage if you compare them with tanks, but have a good chance at a box, because of their dodges...while tanks do their job, they loose most of their hp and then need to hide behind someone...I have been an adventurer tank for long time to know that I got my last box when I got super lucky and scored high damage ... but most of the times I never have allot of dodges, my hit-miss ratio is 1:1 at best so no top damage, but I am not rewarded for my willingness to tank for the rest of the team. Of course I would hate to give exp or boxes for the top damage received...as no other character will have a chance to get that other than a premium pure hp soldier. I do not have a solution to how this could be implemented without complicating it too much.

Call me an idiot and shout "why are you a tank if you suck at exp and boxes", but with the current situation in the fort battles, tanks are needed to be successful and while all others benefit from tanks, those doing the tank-ing only benefit because of their vitality to stay alive for many rounds (forget the boxes).

Thank you for reading

 

[DeletedUser]

Zdeno I've said already a few times that adventurer cannot get the steel box in fort fights any more. Why? Because it's drop isn't random but class bonus based.
Dueler gets the box from damage, from dodge it goes to a worker (if there is one tanking on it's tower with more than 4K HP) or soldier HP monster. While there is damage and dodge steel box drop, there is no box drop connected to adventurer's bonus.

And since you're not hiding (on one world you play against me, dunno about other worlds) I'm supporting you that nonhiders should get a XP boost. But how exactly would the engine determine who's hiding and who chases XP boost by being in the frontline if this frontliner perhaps moves other bravesters behind him because of general rank or high leadership?

 

[DeletedUser563]

Zdeno I've said already a few times that adventurer cannot get the steel box in fort fights any more. Why? Because it's drop isn't random but class bonus based.

thats nonsense. Since the update I adventurer have received a steel lined box from winning imo most damage inflicted as well as highest average damage done. I got grey jeans from it worth 24k. As far as I still know you get it from most damage inflicted(only although it maybe with another category). I'm not revealing my secrets but it depends largely on the attack planned followed by the attackers.

25 August 2011 end of v2:

Jakkals TW Rose Ridge 2040 2040 0 24 1 7542 0 0 0 314 1 25
Gianlu...ocket Hangman Rock 1420 -205 0 1 0 325 6 13 1625 325 0 1
pjkaus ATW-Ra... City 5460 5460 0 24 1 7039 0 0 0 293 3 0
shorty1675 Fort o... - II 1300 1300 0 24 2 7436 0 0 0 310 1 26


First Most Damage Inflicted :7542 Second Highest Avg Damage: 314 Joint First Most Hits Landed.

So dont see how anything changed.

 

[DeletedUser]

thats nonsense. Since the update I adventurer have received a steel lined box from winning imo most damage inflicted as well as highest average damage done. I got grey jeans from it worth 24k. As far as I still know you get it from most damage inflicted(only although it maybe with another category). I'm not revealing my secrets but it depends largely on the attack planned followed by the attackers.

25 August 2011 end of v2:

Jakkals TW Rose Ridge 2040 2040 0 24 1 7542 0 0 0 314 1 25
Gianlu...ocket Hangman Rock 1420 -205 0 1 0 325 6 13 1625 325 0 1
pjkaus ATW-Ra... City 5460 5460 0 24 1 7039 0 0 0 293 3 0
shorty1675 Fort o... - II 1300 1300 0 24 2 7436 0 0 0 310 1 26


First Most Damage Inflicted :7542 Second Highest Avg Damage: 314 Joint First Most Hits Landed.

So dont see how anything changed.

1. Which world was that
2. How many duelers play forts on that world
3. How many duelers were in that fight when you got the box

Nonsense? Yea, right. It's great to play w3 and then think it's the same as a new world.
Oh and... While you got a total of one steel box since the update, others get one steel box - DAILY. Since the update. Nonadventurers.

 

[DeletedUser]

Big NO to this idea! XP/boxes distribution is fair enough Nothing should be changed here, really.

The only thing that should be nerfed is the overpowered premium adventurer, but this is not the right place to discuss that, so maybe I will create a separate thread instead

 

[DeletedUser]

Which world was that

World 1: http://www.westforts.com/en1/battles/battle/12267

Very few duellers(or atleast few with character premium), and not many with high HP either. So it's easier to get top damage for other classes there.

Also; the attacking side is hardly ever filled, which makes it possible for an adventurer to sit in his tower the whole battle(without taking a single shot....).

----------------------

I thought this thread was about fort XP though, and not about boxes. Although as far as I see it, people don't hide for XP but for max damage and a box, so it might still be on-topic.

 

[DeletedUser563]

Whatever. I got it ,it disproves your theory that adventurers cannot get the steel lined box. You didnt say that adventurers will rarely get it you said cannot. I dont have GG so few I get a year is enough. Although in June and July 2011 I took the bronze medal for most damage inflicted that was before I left V2. I guess a player like John Colt massive HP and GG can daily get the steel lined box so be it.

Can this topic be moved to the saloon. The idea cannot pass and will never pass not in a million years and have 2 supporters the OP(yawn) and Joxer and lest I forget yawn -neo-.