Fort Battel Skill Bonuses-- how are they calculated?

[DeletedUser]

It means that Aim is a "fully" based Skill, as it is Dodge, but if you know how to locate yourself, you dont use Dodge at all, right?

The thing is that it seems what we "on a logical formula"( with a scale above the Bonuses and the Distance Penalties , so the Bonuses from buildings,towers,etc) found out with the facts and experiences.

And it tell us so far that the max we get from Bonuses may be +18(since this theory denies Aim/Dodging getting one as the are the base), so the max penalty is -25, which means we may have been talking about a value that rounds around 50-60 as an average for a decent Fort Battlerer.

A value like that will make all that "look" fair and proporcionated IMO. Makin everyone "more or less" vulnerable but at the same time able to hit anyone, on a big or smaller percentage, depending on the sum of your Base Skills+ Bonuses-Penalties.

Or didn´t anyone notice that sometimes you get hit by a 20 level Worker? while you are a level 40 Soldier, for an instance.
That means luck factor, which is translated part of the calculation on the same way as the Duel one(it makes sense), plus the bonuses, which will make you "safer", it will be like an "insurance", guarateeing that you will alweys have for sure that "Fix number" you get from Bonuses.

Nevertheless, as Elmyr says( Items with Aim Bonus and "here we go") and does, its one of the best ways to be efective on a Battle if you are alweys on range but not on first line.
Why is it more efective?

Well, lets say, 30 extra items points on Aim makes more than any other 30 extra points to (Hide/Stamina, Leadership).
Those 30 extra points will make your Aim get an average of 15 , while on the other habilities, it will inscrease you bonus max by 7!, but if you have already points on those Habilities, then the number gets smaller and smaller...


So there is no reward without suffering(those who whishes for a better performance on Battles may have to "sacrifice" a few of your "Labor Points" and move them to Aim...

 

[DeletedUser20647]

Doesn't the Help section explain pretty much ... everything?

 

[DeletedUser]

Doesn't the Help section explain pretty much ... everything?

Are you kidding me?

It doesnt, it just give some very very basic info for those who are starting on the game, so they can have "an idea" how its more or less working ...
But nothing more than that.
Once you get to know the game deeper, you realize that the Help section its more an index than a full guide...

 

[DeletedUser]

And it tell us so far that the max we get from Bonuses may be +18(since this theory denies Aim/Dodging getting one as the are the base),

Sorry but it doesnt tell me the same thing,because zet has already said that maximum bonus is 27 that means that every skill takes equal part in the bonus calculation.So you ground your theory in a completely wrong base.
If aim is the most important skill,then the battlefield is a place only for duelers(gameplay, not class).

 

[DeletedUser]

I trust that the information given by the devs help section is correct but there is also a great deal of luck involved.

In world 10 with a pure builder (0 in aiming) I had 1500 XP defending a fort (6 or 7 in hidding from the cloths) in advet. tower (atackers from the south) and I wasn't on-line.

Some other times with characters that have a lot of aim, I miss most of the shots.

 

[DeletedUser]

So what are guys guys saying then?

That only bonuses are use on shooting/dodging?

Or that all Habilities are use equal?

And then is used full Habilities+Bonus? or what?



So much no, no, you are wrong and bla bla bla.

But nothing specific comes from ya all.

And dont get me wrong, the help is alweys correct, but the help doesnt specify nothing at all...

 

[DeletedUser]

I trust that the information given by the devs help section is correct but there is also a great deal of luck involved.

In world 10 with a pure builder (0 in aiming) I had 1500 XP defending a fort (6 or 7 in hidding from the cloths) in advet. tower (atackers from the south) and I wasn't on-line.

Some other times with characters that have a lot of aim, I miss most of the shots.

Please specify...

Who did you hit? Also Builders? with low dodge?
On a fort battle there are many types of caracthers. and btw its not 0 Aim, minimum is +5

 

[DeletedUser20647]

I trust that the information given by the devs help section is correct but there is also a great deal of luck involved.

In world 10 with a pure builder (0 in aiming) I had 1500 XP defending a fort (6 or 7 in hidding from the cloths) in advet. tower (atackers from the south) and I wasn't on-line.

Some other times with characters that have a lot of aim, I miss most of the shots.

The Help does mention luck.

So what are guys guys saying then?

That only bonuses are use on shooting/dodging?

Or that all Habilities are use equal?

And then is used full Habilities+Bonus? or what?



So much no, no, you are wrong and bla bla bla.

But nothing specific comes from ya all.

And dont get me wrong, the help is alweys correct, but the help doesnt specify nothing at all...

These are the factors involved according to the Help section:

Lots of factors are important in the question if you hit or miss your target. Your abilities and those of your opponent are important, but also your positions, the distance and of course, a little bit of luck.

All of these are explained in the Help section.

 

[DeletedUser]

If aim is the most important skill,then the battlefield is a place only for duelers(gameplay, not class).

You keep telling yourself that aim doesn't matter and I'll keep having my best battles on worlds with ~100 aim and not on worlds with 200 hiding and 100 leadership.

 

[DeletedUser]

Please specify...

Who did you hit? Also Builders? with low dodge?
On a fort battle there are many types of caracthers. and btw its not 0 Aim, minimum is +5

Yes the Pure Builders Union decided to attack a big fort, lucky me

I thought the 5 bonus to aim where only for duels

 

[DeletedUser]

I honestly didn't see any difference in battles using different gear. In the last battle I attended, I forgot to switch outfit, so I was wearing my defensive clothes that I usually wear in case I get dueled and I inflicted the highest amount of damage. Other times I pump the 4 needed skills to get the biggest bonus I can get and I barely do some damage.
Is luck my friend, not the outfit. If the server wants you to hit, you hit. If not, not and that's it.
I also noticed that when your side is outnumbered, you hit more often than miss and another thing: you either do damage(meaning land a hit often but you ko people rarely) or ko people(meaning land a hit not so often but ko people often).

 

[DeletedUser]

Sorry but it doesnt tell me the same thing,because zet has already said that maximum bonus is 27 that means that every skill takes equal part in the bonus calculation.So you ground your theory in a completely wrong base.
If aim is the most important skill,then the battlefield is a place only for duelers(gameplay, not class).

Oh yeah you are right!!!

What or how can we interpretate this statement?

"The max Bonus you take is 27."

Its its refering both shooting and dodging or just one at once?

Because if its refering both shooting and dodging then its right my theory:

If you Defend, you get max bonus from Stamina(but this one twice and LEadership(just once).
So it is 27 : +9 stamina when shooting +9 stamina when dodging + 9 Leadership when shooting.

So the total Bonus you can get is 27, oh yeah baby!!

That states by itself that Aim and Dodge dont give any bonus due to they are calculated over their base randonly(as in a duel).

Here we go!

Sorry i meant 9, not 7, im not that stupid

 

[DeletedUser]

Im not saying that 2 skills are taking consideration.

Of course i know 3 skills per shot or dodge!

Omg you guys r really nuts...

 

[DeletedUser]

You keep telling yourself that aim doesn't matter and I'll keep having my best battles on worlds with ~100 aim and not on worlds with 200 hiding and 100 leadership.

I didnt say that it does not mater.It matters but not more than the other skills.Keep in mind that self-talking situation can be reversal.
What is your total bonus on these worlds?
Since i started dressing up with maximizing bonus in mind,i am 9/10 times in top ten players with most hits.
Ok,you do well with aim.I do well with bonuses.What matters for everyone is how to perform better.

Oh yeah you are right!!!

What or how can we interpretate this statement?

"The max Bonus you take is 27."

Its its refering both shooting and dodging or just one at once?

Because if its refering both shooting and dodging then its right my theory:

If you Defend, you get max bonus from Stamina(but this one twice and LEadership(just once).
So it is 27 : +7 stamina when shooting +7 stamina when dodging + 7 Leadership when shooting.

So the total Bonus you can get is 27, oh yeah baby!!

That states by itself that Aim and Dodge dont give any bonus due to they are calculated over their base randonly(as in a duel).

Here we go!

+7 to everything when you stand on one foot and head to east.+anything that can make a sum of 27 when you dont want to understand.Please,go to developer's blog,find the comment,read it and then make your calculations.

 

[DeletedUser]

sorry for double post(please delete it)

 

[DeletedUser]

I don't know about you, but a bonus (in my understanding of the word) implies a value that this bonus is attributed to. If there's only regular sum of numbers, it's merely a value, but not a bonus.
One possibility to cover both, Elmyrs observations and the bonus of 27 points:
Aim is taken as your base to-hit-value and gets modified by the bonus (up to +9 of all 3 skills equally). This would neither contradict zet's statement nor the observations, that aim is the most important skill.

 

[DeletedUser]

I don't know about you, but a bonus (in my understanding of the word) implies a value that this bonus is attributed to. If there's only regular sum of numbers, it's merely a value, but not a bonus.
One possibility to cover both, Elmyrs observations and the bonus of 27 points:
Aim is taken as your base to-hit-value and gets modified by the bonus (up to +9 of all 3 skills equally). This would neither contradict zet's statement nor the observations, that aim is the most important skill.

Can be true but we have no clue that the main value is aim.Could be a fixed-minimum attacking value(like the +5 in duels) and the bigger it is, the less importance the bonusses have,but also the lesser it is,the bigger importance the bonusses have.Ok lets say its aim.What about dodge then?Why one of my characters with zero dodge and high leadership dodges 3/4 or 4/5 on normal terain and 9/10 on his tower?And why that character with 20 aim hits more than 50%-80% from tower and 30%-40% from ground? Is he just luckier than elmyr?

 

[DeletedUser]

And why that character with 20 aim hits more than 50%-80% from tower and 30%-40% from ground? Is he just luckier than elmyr?

Three battles in the past two days with aim being my only fort skill.

 

[DeletedUser]

I've been thinking about this as well, I think you are right. It might not be exactly how you present it, but the concept of aim being the main skill and modified by the others seems right to me.

But this is what im trying to explain....

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes, we are all getting to the same point. Finally!!

Of course Nobody knows, and who knows it( the Fort shooting and dodging formula) wont tell it, specially if its a developer...

But its looks that the value use(the total secret sums of number) its higher than 24 for sure.
Just take a look at the penalisations from distance which over 15 tiles its -24..

How many of us did hit over that distance? Plenty, and most of the times, and i dont think many can gather those 27+ on Bonuses.

So we or at least me and few, are "smelling the coffe" already, and the Formula can be as simple as :

A Random number of your Aim hability + the bonus of the other habilities(Stamina+Leadership or Hide+Leadership).
I do not think Aim gives a Bonus since Aim its the base, so it wouldnt make sense to make an extra Bonus out of the Base and then add it to the base.

Same goes for when we Dodge:

A Random number of your Dodging hability + the bonus of the other abilities(Stamina+Leadership or Hide+Leadership).
As well here I do not think Dodging gives a Bonus since Dodging would be the base, hippotetically.

We dont know, but it look very logical,right? Since we said we are talkin about a "Secret or unknown amount" that usually goes over 24 easily. And this is a fact!!!
No-one can denies this!


The other path would be that we get Bonuses from all Habilities(the ones involved, obviously) and we add the bonuses to the base of all of them.
From here we have 3 variations, which added to the previous one, we get 4 variations, ill explain them here with numbers.


LEts say i have(im defending) 10 Stamina,65 Leadership , 50 Aim and 36 Dodge, with clothes bonus. for example

Theory 1: When shooting = Aim 0 to 50(average 25)+ 3 Bonus stamina+ 5 Bonus Leadership = 38 as an average i will have when Shooting, minimum will be 8 and maximum 58.

When dodging = Dodge 0 to 36(average 18)+ 3 Bonus stamina+ 5 Bonus Leadership = 26 as an average for dodgin, minimum 8, maximum 44.


Theory 2: varitation of getting bonus to the involved habilities, no random this time:
When shooting = Aim 50+ 10 stamina+ 65 Leadership + (Bonus +5 Aim +3 Stamina +5 Leadership) = 138 fix number

When dodging = Dodge 36+ 10 stamina+ 65 Leadership + (Bonus +4 Dodge +3 Stamina +5 Leadership) = 123 fix number
No-one will believe in this theory..

Theory 3: varitation of getting bonus to the involved habilities, all random this time:
When shooting = Aim 0 to 50(average 25)+ stamina 0 to 10(average 5)+ Leadership 0 to 65(average 32)+ (Bonus +5 Aim +3 Stamina +5 Leadership) = 75 as an average i will have when Shooting, minimum will be 13 and maximum 138.

When dodging = Dodge 0 to 36(average 18)+ stamina 0 to 10(average 5)+ Leadership 0 to 65(average 32)+ (Bonus +4 Dodge +3 Stamina +5 Leadership) = 67 as an average i will have when Dodging, minimum will be 12 and maximum 123.

It seems quite a high number and a big diference beetwen minimum and maximum.

Theory 4: it will be a mix beetwen theory 2 and 3, but having random just Aim/Dodging

When shooting = Aim 0 to 50(average 25)+ stamina 10+ Leadership 65+ (Bonus +5 Aim +3 Stamina +5 Leadership) = 113 as an average i will have when Shooting, minimum will be 88 and maximum 138.

When dodging = Dodge 0 to 36(average 18)+ stamina 10+ Leadership 65+ (Bonus +4 Dodge +3 Stamina +5 Leadership) = 105 as an average i will have when Dodging, minimum will be 87 and maximum 123.

Theory 4 seems reasonable, but then i would never understand the value of the Bonuses.


Note that this game has a very logical formulas(even secretly kept though) and it alweys tries to simulate reality, so if you are on Fort shooting, by logic what you would really need to be good at would be Aim, You could be such a good leader or so good at hidding, but if you dont know how to Aim and pull the trigger in the right moment those 2 habilities are worthless...

Im saying this because if you take a look at the jobs, you will soon realise(if you havent yet) that every Hability put on that job has a reason and a logical explanation why it is that hability and no other one.
For example I got myself convinced by looking at the habilities required for Hunting Buffalos: Horseback riding( you need to be as fast as a Buffalo), Setting Traps( as well you have to know how to trick them), Leadership(you are not alone doing this job), Tactics(some strategy must be over the table) and Animal instinct(you need to think like one of them), then i realise that nothing is casual in this game.

Therefore back to Forts Habilities, it would have a tremendous logic if Aim and Dodging are the base Habilities and the rest will just "Help" them by giving them a Bonus.


PD: I´m sorry for taking so long, and i apologise for the insult on my previous post, but im just here posting and participating with all of you guys which i think you know quite a lot about the game, so your opinion its very appreciated as we talk about on a very important and key topic of the game. Thus i dont need to come here and read something like "Stop crying"... or similarities.

Btw if you dont undertand my english at some point, i apologise for the inconvinience since im Spanish and i play only on both the German and the Spanish servers.


Thanks