Fort Battel Skill Bonuses-- how are they calculated?

DeletedUser10059

So here's my ?....

How exactly are the skill bonuses calculated for fort battles? The help page lists it like this:

Skills

5 skills are important for fort battles.

  • Leadership is used for shooting, but also for defending.
  • Aim is only important when shooting.
  • Dodging is only used when trying to dodge a shot.
  • Hiding is used when a defender tries to shoot or dodge a shot.
  • Stamina is used when an attacker tries to shoot or dodge a shot.
So, for each shot and for each dodging attempt exactly three skills are taken into consideration.
Skill bonuses


  • +1 bonus with one point and up
  • +2 bonus with 3 points and up
  • +3 bonus with 10 points and up
  • +4 bonus with 23 points and up
  • +5 bonus with 43 points and up
  • +6 bonus with 71 points and up
  • +7 bonus with 108 points and up
  • +8 bonus with 155 points and up
  • +9 bonus with 211 points and up
But what does that mean?....

There are two possible ways to calculate the bonus, and I have seen people talk about it both ways, so I just want to confirm which it is. I'll use the calculation for shooting, as a defender for my example. So the skills used are Leadership, Hiding, and Aim. And I'll use the following values; L = 55, H = 78, A = 32

Possibility #1
Leadership + Hiding + Aim = X
55 + 78 + 32 = 165
165 gives you a +8 bonus

or

Possibility #2
Leadership = 55 gives you a +5 bonus
Hiding = 78 gives you a +6 bonus
Aim = 32 gives you a +4 bonus
5 + 6 + 4 = 15

I would like to know which one is correct since the help page is less than helpful in explaining it.
 

DeletedUser16806

I was about to yell at you for not reading the FAQ, then realized there actually isn't one here for that yet.

It is the latter, each skill gives you points individually. As for whether it is an integer bonus or can go into decimal points, I'm not sure, but decimal points is how this guy is calculating it: http://www.westcalc.info and I'm inclined to agree based on personal experience.
 

DeletedUser

I have been wondering the same thing for a while now. Based on my experience I would say it is not the first method, which is what I initially thought it was, and is the most natural reading of the help section.

I'm not sure it is the other method, though that is what I'm assuming it is at this point.

The distance penalty and the wall/tower bonus according to this method would make hitting someone that is on a wall from far away very unlikely. In my experience this happens more frequently than you would expect based on these numbers. It's possible that, like in dueling, everyone gets a +5 bonus so it's always possible (if unlikely) to get hit.

So, really I have no idea, but would love it if the developers would give a little more information here.

I'd love to get some kind of definitive answer on how this works.
 
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DeletedUser

I disagree with West Calc's method of selecting gear. Actually, it's not bad for the most part, because the bonus does help, just like you're better off in a fully built tower than one the ground. IMO, each skill does have a different role, and aim is the most important stat for hitting targets in fort battles, with the skills bonus being just that, a bonus. West Calc is based on the idea that the bonus is all that matters, and I'm 95% certain that the theory just isn't true. I do much better in fort battles specced for dueling and wearing dueling gear, with 80-100 aim that I do on worlds where I have much more leadership or hiding than I do aim on any world.

I usually largely take West Calc's advice, but I'll usually adjust its recommendations and wear extra aim gear, usually including a felt hat and sandals.

And there's no mystery about integer vs. decimal. The devs have stated it's the latter.
 

DeletedUser16806

Interesting. My experience has been just the opposite, as a I got a lot better at fort battles when I stopped focusing on aim gear. I also do not always take westcalc's suggested just because it attempts to strike a balance while I prefer greater attack vs. dodging.
 

DeletedUser

Unless zet shows up to give his answer, this question will never be resolved.
 

DeletedUser

I hadn't thought of the leadership (and stamina/hide) only giving a bonus to the dodge and aim. But, I agree, I think that correlates better with what I have experienced in fort battles across worlds.
 

DeletedUser

And there's no mystery about integer vs. decimal. The devs have stated it's the latter.

Where have they stated the bonus is decimal? :huh:

Based on the help I always try to get to the threshold based on the table
so that I get one more bonus point.. - for example if I can't reach 23 points
I lower that skill to 10 and try to increase another above the threshold.

So that was mighty stupid of me, um?
But if you look at the help - it appears that the bonus was integer -

+1 bonus with one point and up
+2 bonus with 3 points and up
+3 bonus with 10 points and up
+4 bonus with 23 points and up
+5 bonus with 43 points and up
+6 bonus with 71 points and up
 

DeletedUser

Where have they stated the bonus is decimal?

On the dev blog.

zet said:
@Slashas: Each skill is converted to the given table in the help (max 9). Then it is summed up and this is the bonus you gain. So yes, your best bonus is 27. Also you might want to know that the help does not reveal that the bonus is floating point which means that you can have an “uneven” bonus, for example 7.3. We’ll add a sector bonus preview in 1.​22 so it’ll be more transparent.

http://devblog.the-west.net/?p=163&lang=en
 

DeletedUser10059

Thank you Elmyr!

(Wild Fred cowers in the face of Elmyr's overwhelming The West knowledge) :p
 

DeletedUser

Also on the dev's blog in a comment it is clearly stated that bonuses from individual skills are summed and the maximum bonus you can achive either for shooting or dodging is 27.I never read a developer's post, saying that a particular skill is more important than the the others or plays a special role.
So I think Elmyr's theory is wrong and undocumented.Additionaly mine and many others experiences,battle after battle, drive me to the conclusion that only total bonus matters with more confidence.
 

DeletedUser

So I think Elmyr's theory is wrong and undocumented.Additionaly mine and many others experiences,battle after battle, drive me to the conclusion that only total bonus matters with more confidence.

1. I'm not the only one who's come to the conclusion that aim is more important than the other skills. Give me a list of people who's experiences agree with yours. You seem to think the people who agree with me are n00bs with limited experience which is completely untrue.

2. I'm not speaking without experience and I speak entirely from experience that I've had much better results specced for dueling, i.e. with fairly high aim, than I have with a formerly pure hider with high leadership as well, both attacking and defending.

3. It's not documented that the sole factor is bonuses either. Nowhere does it say the three skills used for shooting or dodging as an attacker or defender are equally important.
 

DeletedUser

Elmyr, the Help is never wrong :D

You are sounding like the people who pray, they have proof too, hehehe. I'm just joking.

Help doesn't say that bonuses are the other factor, or that until bonuses are calculated everyone is equal.
 

DeletedUser

1. I'm not the only one who's come to the conclusion that aim is more important than the other skills. Give me a list of people who's experiences agree with yours. You seem to think the people who agree with me are n00bs with limited experience which is completely untrue.

2. I'm not speaking without experience and I speak entirely from experience that I've had much better results specced for dueling, i.e. with fairly high aim, than I have with a formerly pure hider with high leadership as well, both attacking and defending.

3. It's not documented that the sole factor is bonuses either. Nowhere does it say the three skills used for shooting or dodging as an attacker or defender are equally important.

I didn't called you noob neither any other player.It doesnt make someone noob if he has different opinion.I just said that your theory is undocumented.Zet has said that the maximum bonus is 27.Thats 3*9.9 is the maximum bonus of each skill.Does it have to be more analytic?Even if this comment is not a mathematical proof,at least is something documented.
I am not going to start collecting people's experiences.It is a lot easier for you,being a moderator,to start a poll and we will find out what people believe according their battle performance.

edit:Something more
And think like a game developer who want to balnce the battle.
Q.How should i balance the battle?
A.Lets double something with minor importance (according to you) like the bonuses, and leave the important things as is.

the conclusion is obvious.
 
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DeletedUser16806

Zet has said that the maximum bonus is 27. Thats 3*9

I think you're assuming that bonuses are the only thing that effects fort battles. I believe that Elmyr is suggesting that there are factors outside of the "bonus".
 

DeletedUser

I too noticed that I got amazing hit rate when I clothed up my (otherwise specced heavily in leadership and hiding) character to get high aim.

However I believe the reason is simple: while I was perhaps getting one bonus point extra, if that, by wearing indian set (leadership + hiding bonus) in addition to existing attributes, the change was far bigger when I used dueling clothes (Fancy Felt Hat, Golden Buffalo, Fancy Dress Coat, Sandals), perhaps 1-2 points ?

Either way, I think those who haven't invested alot of SP in aim/dodging would be better off by wearing dueling gear as they would get bigger combined bonus to fort combat.
 

DeletedUser

Hey guys, i think you are overdoing it too much, while is quite simple at the end.

Elmir is right, im agree with him.

Bonus are just that....Bonuses.

The base could be either the whole 6 Habilities, or just Aim and Dodge plus the Bonuses obteined from Hide,Stamina and Leadership.

I think the formula is as follow:

Whenever you Shoot, you Aim is calculated as the same way on a duel(from 0 to your max +5) plus whatever Bonus from 2 of those 3(Hide,Stamina,Leadership) in that ocassion may be.

The same goes for Dodging...


Isnt it simple?

It can´t be just "Bonus" what you are going there on the battle....

Of course the developers they dont give a single clue.
But battles are based on 2 skills plus bonuses.

Which those two skills(play the luck role) they are alweys randonly calculated, as if a duel was.
So what you get from there you add the Bonuses that you get for that ocassion.

The more bonuses you get, the more secure and regular your player performance will be during the battle. Therefore they will support your good base on Aim/Dodging.

PD: I dont think at all AIM/Dodge give bonus, since they are "the base" of the formula.
As i think Hide,Stamine,Leadership just give a Bonus to the Base, nothing less, nothing more.

Edit:
I may have to add that it makes sense...
In this way its makes the battle more balance for every character.
Anyhow, just take a look at the penalties from distance, they would be quite unfair if you use just "Bonuses" on a battle.
And it wouldnt make sense if you use the whole skill points+Bonuses all toghether.
So something its telling us, that we have 2 groups of skills:

1, the ones which work randonly and dont give any bonus(why a bonus if you can use the whole???)
2. the ones which gives a Bonus to the previous group.

Isn´t that make a bit of sense????
 
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DeletedUser

I had my 2nd 1500 XP battle in 3 or 4 days on w1 when my only fort skill is aim and the gear I use is also mostly aim.
 
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