DeletedUser
lol, your historical ignorance knows no bounds aye? I'm just wondering, who do you obtain your incorrect notions from, Glenn Beck?
DeletedUser563
The us cannot default. Ever heard of brics. So the us owes china but the rest of the brics countries probably owes the us. Thats the first scenario . The second scenario of course would mean international action: probably the un would step in some manner of form. I dont think its really a realistic scenario that the us would do that anyway. if the us do that what neo say would take effect in some manner. But let me give you an example for instance in china you have different companies that deal with you:from the one producing crap to quality as you go up. That is all controlled so if you default you go to the bottom meaning you get the crap. The huge business partner the us is probably of china that would of course have even a more devastating effect on its current economies. In fact this sounds more like an endgame scenario the move you make before chessmate for china because in some manner you are going to pay them back. Give them credit they yield more influence than you think in asia and most of your products is manufactured in the east.
Well I dont know much about the us in regards to natural resources so I am not going to venture a solution although controlling immigration obviously dont have a real effect as that is usually not the businesses that is under perfroming. Face it if you use cheap labor your business is doing better. But those of the bottom of the barrel I think the problem is more like in the middle top. Well the other think i would say is you have much to big income differences. What about taxing someone like the creator of facebook like 60% on his income. Why would one individual need so much money. I would say tax the depression back into the us people raise your taxes everywhere vat, inbetween taxes, taxes on petrol . And then you start cleaning up in the top this fat cats like the lehman brothers* you tax them up to 60%. (Im referring to the fact that when a board member suggested that the directors bonuses be cut the ceo actually said that was ridiculous, and that was when their ship went down)..
Then you take all the nice tax money and you start cleaning up house, like unemployment, the unstable house market etc. Basically you shaft the fat cats and become the uber fat cat that controls the whole game. Of course rise to the top lower to the bottom and inbetween you create all new kind of taxes. Steinbeck said one thing about the Californian land owners and that applies to most Americans you have simply became too soft.
Well I dont know much about the us in regards to natural resources so I am not going to venture a solution although controlling immigration obviously dont have a real effect as that is usually not the businesses that is under perfroming. Face it if you use cheap labor your business is doing better. But those of the bottom of the barrel I think the problem is more like in the middle top. Well the other think i would say is you have much to big income differences. What about taxing someone like the creator of facebook like 60% on his income. Why would one individual need so much money. I would say tax the depression back into the us people raise your taxes everywhere vat, inbetween taxes, taxes on petrol . And then you start cleaning up in the top this fat cats like the lehman brothers* you tax them up to 60%. (Im referring to the fact that when a board member suggested that the directors bonuses be cut the ceo actually said that was ridiculous, and that was when their ship went down)..
Then you take all the nice tax money and you start cleaning up house, like unemployment, the unstable house market etc. Basically you shaft the fat cats and become the uber fat cat that controls the whole game. Of course rise to the top lower to the bottom and inbetween you create all new kind of taxes. Steinbeck said one thing about the Californian land owners and that applies to most Americans you have simply became too soft.
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DeletedUser
If you are in a debate and you have the truth argue and make points about it, if not. then attack the person. All you are doing by calling me ignorant is proving that you are clueless and unable to make valid arguments against me.
@Jakkals- The problem isn't to tax the people more. It is not to take away money from wealthy people because they have more money than others. Those people worked for it and lived the American dream. Simply stop wasteful government spending on things that are not the government's business. Anything that the government gives people, the people are paying for it indirectly. Why should money go from people who work for it to people who do not work for it?
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DeletedUser563
well if a guy like bill gates gives half of his money to charity and other rich people in america do the same . I am just wondering. I didnt say the wealthy necessarily more the super rich. Also I didnt say take away all of their money just more of their declared income. Its not like they will be impoverished or something. Maybe it sounded more radical than it is more of a different harsher taxes according to identified needs and the problem groups identified. So if the wealthy is also biting the bullet we skip to the next higher income group. Well cant the poor people have the right to through government help one day achieve your so called american dream. And is it your dream to drive past piles of people begging along the streets.
Well let me say its only the Americans that can mess up the 3rd biggest economy in the world. You cant actually make more money by spending more money or by lowering your taxes. In fact that is the harsh realities.
Well as far as I see the topic posted by hs it is related to why you have this problem. As far as i know it was related to banks and the property market collapsing. Therefore not really related to government. The only thing I noticed (in a movie)is that some businesses (banks ) is considered to big too fail. Well according to that movie(events up to lehman brothers collapsing) if the us government didn't involve themselves it would lead to a chain reaction collapse that could destroy the world economy. Well the one economic advisor was that one guy from the "70's show. Well i see most posters missed this but we are actually part of brics. South africa joined a year or so ago. So if you dont pay our big brother we arez going to be very angry and drink 1 can of coke less a day/per person in all the brics countries. Leading to your demise.
Well let me say its only the Americans that can mess up the 3rd biggest economy in the world. You cant actually make more money by spending more money or by lowering your taxes. In fact that is the harsh realities.
Well as far as I see the topic posted by hs it is related to why you have this problem. As far as i know it was related to banks and the property market collapsing. Therefore not really related to government. The only thing I noticed (in a movie)is that some businesses (banks ) is considered to big too fail. Well according to that movie(events up to lehman brothers collapsing) if the us government didn't involve themselves it would lead to a chain reaction collapse that could destroy the world economy. Well the one economic advisor was that one guy from the "70's show. Well i see most posters missed this but we are actually part of brics. South africa joined a year or so ago. So if you dont pay our big brother we arez going to be very angry and drink 1 can of coke less a day/per person in all the brics countries. Leading to your demise.
DeletedUser16008
One thing to remember, its taken decades if not longer to get here to breaking point and itll take more than a wave of a hand to fix it. It won't be solved in one electoral term and the next one will probably pander to the voters because they will all be hurting and tired of the hard work and pain of serious change, and that includes any free electorial system in the world atm. It will go on and on until it finally snaps.
I have spent a long time on this subject, looking at it, researching the system, financial, political and humane trying to see how it may be fixed etc. I can only come up with long term and drastic changes that simply will not be embarked on voluntarily nor for long enough.
The fact im sad to say is that the tendrils of credit swops derivatives ponzie schemes insolvent countries, corrupt and greedy business, selfish politicians, public freeloaders, human rights and expectation of living nowadays just doesn't make it possible.Most people are blissfully unaware of how close everything they know and understand is to collapsing. I honestly can't see it going another 20 years if 10, and thats no time at all.
I advise the individual to encourage change sure but... expect a lot less but most of all don't rely on your government for anything in the future.A plan B for yourself and family is the best way for the individual and your the only one you should count on.
If I were you I would certainly have a contingency plan or be working towards one.The rest is just hope and it's a thin rope to hang by at that.
Just a footnote:
I see Obama has circumnavigated congress to allow an american citizen to now be held WITHOUT charge for an INDEFINITE period anywhere in the world including now on US SOIL.... this is finally the end of the american constitution out in the open.... you have no freedom now if someone chooses otherwise and there dosnt even have to be a reason for it .... legally.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...-national-defense-authorization-act-now-what/ by request for a link, this is so you know im sadly not making this up.
Things will only get worse from here on in,forget the fox, when you can do something like this with impudence and get away with it, it proves the wolves are in the henhouse ...
I have spent a long time on this subject, looking at it, researching the system, financial, political and humane trying to see how it may be fixed etc. I can only come up with long term and drastic changes that simply will not be embarked on voluntarily nor for long enough.
The fact im sad to say is that the tendrils of credit swops derivatives ponzie schemes insolvent countries, corrupt and greedy business, selfish politicians, public freeloaders, human rights and expectation of living nowadays just doesn't make it possible.Most people are blissfully unaware of how close everything they know and understand is to collapsing. I honestly can't see it going another 20 years if 10, and thats no time at all.
I advise the individual to encourage change sure but... expect a lot less but most of all don't rely on your government for anything in the future.A plan B for yourself and family is the best way for the individual and your the only one you should count on.
If I were you I would certainly have a contingency plan or be working towards one.The rest is just hope and it's a thin rope to hang by at that.
Just a footnote:
I see Obama has circumnavigated congress to allow an american citizen to now be held WITHOUT charge for an INDEFINITE period anywhere in the world including now on US SOIL.... this is finally the end of the american constitution out in the open.... you have no freedom now if someone chooses otherwise and there dosnt even have to be a reason for it .... legally.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...-national-defense-authorization-act-now-what/ by request for a link, this is so you know im sadly not making this up.
Things will only get worse from here on in,forget the fox, when you can do something like this with impudence and get away with it, it proves the wolves are in the henhouse ...
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DeletedUser563
Actually I dont really think so. I was wondering whether you was 2nd as the 3rd was only a joke. Actually your still first. Furthermore although I understand where your coming from Victor most people are not so financially independent as you apparently are. If the whole system goes down most big businesses will also belly flop etc etc. As much as we hate banks you cant really life without them. But I think your over pessimistic
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DeletedUser16008
Sorry Jakks youve lost me on the 2nd and 3rd remark joke thing I havnt been answering anyones post rather just painting things how i see them and just throwing a few things out there that people may not be aware of or even considering..
Being optimistic is well and good but having eyes open and a plan B is never a bad thing... the way I see it silver is cheap enough for anyone to pick up at $29 and banks pay nothing in interest so why leave all your hard earned money there for them to use for investing and creating more money to aid them when there are other options that you can get a return on yourself... ?
I'd also like to see the normal person get a break if it does play out the way i think it will before the rich pile in and suck it all up... and they will when the pension and investment houses start to notice the moves up ... at that point the guy in the street wont be able to get their hands on any physical for a reasonable price.
Not saying we should live without some form of banking just the monetary system and operation currently in place is clearly broken and needs a total overhaul. Big business needs to flop and a lot of other stuff too to reset the balance anyway, the world wont end and like any cycle a low is part of the natural order, keeping it artificially on life support just means itll be all the worse... if you like i can show you some charts to whats been piled on top of the debts since 2008... the debt has virtually tripled in 4 years .. hows that for making things worse ?
As for the new law Obama has passed the main thing here is hes stated time and again in the past he wouldnt do such a thing without going through congress ... he has... slippery slope to be on as the next will be easier to do and so on ... and whos to know what leaders in the future will determine are terrorists.... student protesters ? immigrants ? normal criminals ? tax dodgers ? ... all under the threat to national security... Remember Saddam Hussain and Iraq had nothing to do with 911 or supported al queda nor had WMD yet thats exactly what Bush went to war about...the threat to national security........ total rubbish yet the US and us the UK went to war over that spin and killed hundreds of thousands because of it... and illegally done that makes it mass murder in my book... its a war crime conveniently ignored
DeletedUser563
China is set to replace the us as the biggest economy in this year or next. Well a diamond is actually smaller and can be worth very much. (just dont buy the blood type) well i for one aint gonna paint a home invasion target on my back by buying a lot of silver. although i always wanted to start buying the kruger rands which is a bit more low key when you buy them and their also worth a lot more than silver. well because the us is so big a market of ours its better for the world economy if businesses dont fail. well if you say they are gonna fail there is nothing that stops you from making money on their demise what is that called short buying.. buying at and selling stock now but paying in a year? not certain im no economist . well on topic that is all the viewpoints i have on the topic hellstromm etc can take it further.
DeletedUser16008
Diamonds are indeed a good investment, problem is I wouldnt know a good one from zircon and nor would the layman. Ill leave that to the pros. You also have no idea if your buying a blood diamond the industry has admitted they have no idea mostly nor really care where they come from they are so easy to sell into the open market.
You don't "tell" anyone what your doing about getting silver etc just like you wouldnt say about having cash under the matress, besides there are places to store or hide this stuff if your nervous... its just easier for silver to double in price from say 29 - 56 than it is gold from 1600 to 3200.. if you like krugers cool its another easily transportable form of wealth and yup they are worth more but also cost that much more, 55 silver oz or a 1 oz rand, depends on your preference ... if i wanted to save to slowly drip back as i needed the cash then 55 oz will be much easier to sell off as you wish bit by bit .. whereas an expensive coin would have to be cashed in all at once... benefit of gold is its easlier to transport and hide... all up to the individual personal requirements, both would be even better of course. BTW stay away from the fancy limited editions the premiums are silly unless just a collector, like stamp collections if the SHTF then coin collections will be dumped on the market like stamp collections were and the prices would plummet.
Wealth dosnt disappear when business fails its mealy transferred someplace else.... at the moment there is total confusion in markets and there is real fear out there where things are going next.... far as markets are concerned and shorting etc you have to really know what your doing atm, again thats not me or the average layman ... most that buy shares want a stable steady return with maybe dividends... its not like that at all out there anymore.
Besides metals arnt about making huge profits its about wealth preserving next to fiat currency devaluation... case in point Germany had a currency crisis before WW2 it wasnt that gold and everything increased in value rather the currency devalued and the paper was so worthless people were using it to keep the fire going... if you had gold etc you were fine at least re your savings if you had paper you were totally wiped out.
http://www.hitler2012.com/the-weimar-hyperinflation/ This is what Europe is scared witless about happening whilst the US is just as scared about deflation after their great depression..... opposite fears both unfixable with the current fiat system in place.
This is the state of the US at the moment ... and its probably conservative...
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Its pretty interesting stuff .Look at the right hand column on population being 312 million and yet taxpayers being a mere 112 million, thats 1/3 rd only paying tax to support the other 2/3rds.
ill point out something else too the federal employees pension pot is x5 that of the rest on social security pension one per head and that dosnt include all the rest not yet retired. That will have to be balanced for a start and the federal employees arnt going to like taking a huge haircut it but it'll have to happen at some point.
Kicking the can down the road is all thats being done at the moment and the US is already insolvent, the only thing keeping it on life support is being the world reserve currency and the lender of last resort.... and its lending like mad, yet the dollar is getting stronger atm ... why ? because Europe is in far worse shape in the immediate term. Once thats either stabilized or the Euro collapses attention will shift back to the dollar... Its an election year in the US so watch for all the stops to be pulled out to avoid disaster on Obamas watch before the election, after that all bets are off. Aslo worth note is 50% of the major world powers democratic and other leaders are up for election this year and a lot of the options could throw a total spanner in the works pretty quickly.... France is a good example where the main opposition has said if they get in then its probably bye bye Euro for France via a referendum ......
Sooner or later a major default is coming, voluntarily or otherwise and eventually we will be forced to deal with it. The more fuel they put on the fire the greater the damage and recovery period.
Very possible deflation will occur this year then be followed by hyperinflation once the money printing kicks in on the scale required, in that scenario when things start to get cheap as chips it would be good to buy into something that will later protect from hyperinflation, tip: its not going to be paper.
Should the US default ? absolutely ... will it willingly ? .... certainly not at the moment but i think eventually it will have no choice.
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DeletedUser
Victor, I presently don't have the time to rebut your and others comments, but I think it's important enough that I address your "precious metals" hype.
As it's said, everyone has friends and I am no exception. One of my friends is a commodities junkie who traded in diamonds, stocks, currencies, and yes --- precious metals.
Cutting to the chase, the hype on precious metals is just that. Hoarders of such are actually trying to pawn it off as quickly as possible, and there's a reason (a few, actually).
First, there are the doom and gloom sellers, who try to trick you into thinking it's "time" to buy precious metals (gold in particular) . To put it bluntly, they're lying.
The old investment adage is, "buy low, sell high."
Well, gold and silver are high right now, and most speculators anticipate a precious metals "bust," similar to what occured with the real estate market.
That's "why" there are so many ads out there pushing you to buy gold now. A quick check of gold buyers will show they are purchasing gold at one-tenth market value (just 10 years ago they were purchasing at 50%-80% market value).
Please review the below links and understand that the frenzy to buy gold, silver, platinum, etc., is a concocted event, an exploitation of economic anxieties by unscrupulous brokers (you know, the same sort of people that caused the real estate, banking, and market catastrophes?!?).
http://www.good.is/post/glenn-beck-s-gold-scam-explained/
http://www.cftc.gov/ConsumerProtect...n/CFTCFraudAdvisories/fraudadv_preciousmetals
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/18/gold-scam-price-bubble-anxiety_n_863866.html
As it's said, everyone has friends and I am no exception. One of my friends is a commodities junkie who traded in diamonds, stocks, currencies, and yes --- precious metals.
Cutting to the chase, the hype on precious metals is just that. Hoarders of such are actually trying to pawn it off as quickly as possible, and there's a reason (a few, actually).
First, there are the doom and gloom sellers, who try to trick you into thinking it's "time" to buy precious metals (gold in particular) . To put it bluntly, they're lying.
The old investment adage is, "buy low, sell high."
Well, gold and silver are high right now, and most speculators anticipate a precious metals "bust," similar to what occured with the real estate market.
That's "why" there are so many ads out there pushing you to buy gold now. A quick check of gold buyers will show they are purchasing gold at one-tenth market value (just 10 years ago they were purchasing at 50%-80% market value).
Please review the below links and understand that the frenzy to buy gold, silver, platinum, etc., is a concocted event, an exploitation of economic anxieties by unscrupulous brokers (you know, the same sort of people that caused the real estate, banking, and market catastrophes?!?).
http://www.good.is/post/glenn-beck-s-gold-scam-explained/
http://www.cftc.gov/ConsumerProtect...n/CFTCFraudAdvisories/fraudadv_preciousmetals
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/18/gold-scam-price-bubble-anxiety_n_863866.html
DeletedUser16008
Like this bunch of scumbags ? taking about 40,000 customers private deposit accounts money, disgusting and its playing havoc with the farmers etc and trust in the system as its the first time in history private accounts have been raided.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/francinemckenna/2012/01/09/the-neverending-mf-global-story-regulators-block-the-truth-from-coming-out/
I think you misunderstand me.... Im not a metals bug perse its just better than paper and stocks etc atm but i assure you its not yet in a bubble and have been following it for over 10 years ... when its into the final phase then its time to bail, these things have cycles and its not into the final phase as yet.
Yes its horribly manipulated because the market is so small and its leveraged hundreds of times in the paper market so dont touch it with a barge pole... please.
No one gets it at a discount of the % your talking unless you mean etf and paper carry trades and that is a mugs game its not real hard metals just paper.
Bullion metals is what it is & no buyer gets it cheaper than the spot, only the miners ... period.
Ive been told by many over the last 8 years its in a bubble lol If your friend is a commodities junkie then hes either not very into metals and dosnt understand them or hes plain wrong.
Hells your gonna have to do better than that ... those links are pretty layman and tell you nothing at all about the industry, mining, costs etc etc and far far more...I could give you literally dozens of links with proper figures charts, production amounts , traded amounts etc.
Ill make it real clear because you must have missed this bit.
only ever buy physical just over spot no silly numismatic or fancy stuff.... the market is what it is and if you cant hold it you dont own it.... period
Whilst the printing press is on overtime metals will continue to shine with the usual pullbacks... the stockmarkets are all in a downtrend longterm and is mirrored by the reverse in real money ... gold and silver and thats not a coincidence or a bubble with all the money put in circulation, rather its the devaluation of fiat currency vs the metals, come on hells you know how money works and its being devalued by adding to the supply don't you ?
If you wish to discuss further when you have time please do so, I have no intention to hype and wouldnt even post about something like this unless i have a heck of a lot of research and info to back it up.
Addendum: Interestingly this has just been added today ..http://www.kitco.com/ind/Moolman/jan102012.html only info re the charts and paper money vs metals to be taken for interest sake not the rest of the article but it does show what im talking about re the mirror
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