Classical Music and Modern Culture

DeletedUser

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/benjamin_zander_on_music_and_passion.html
Today's pop music is quite boring: slightly catchy lyrics about love or whatever, a new rhythm, and a very simplistic, over-used 4 chord progression repeated ad infinitum. The focus is on the singer's voice and the words, which allows for no depth, especially when everything is pretty much recycled. In stark contrast, classical music is rich, diverse, and addresses a whole range of emotions. Contemporary pianists, like Kyle Landry, do an excellent job by being source of more musical depth, but aren't as well known as Justin Bieber. Is there a place for classical music in modern culture and how can we revive it/bring it to the masses?
 

DeletedUser16008

Absolutely theres a place for it.

Its a question of partly education and how to appreciate the depth and variety of real instruments and the skill required and the image it has.

There really isnt this problem in all parts of the world and some areas are incredibly rich with traditional music. Call it classical because thats what it is in a form.

If you wish to sell classical music to the masses you have to make it hip and exciting for the masses. Im not sure thats such a good idea because it would be ruined all to quickly.

The music industry is all about money and its what i like to call Reality Music Media, its fed to the masses and they learn to like it as much as they love their TV dinners and Mc Donalds processed burgers.

Anyways classical will survive but im not sure youd like what the music industry would do to it to make it appeal to the masses.
 

DeletedUser28032

Yeah its kind of up their with rock and blues there will always be people who will like it and happily pay to hear someone play it but it'll never be mainstream.
Also using rock as an example as soon as a band/muscian does manage to become mainstream it'll become instantly ostracised by its original fans for that very reason so its kind of a no win situation.
 

DeletedUser

Vic, which parts of the world don't have this problem? I mean, it's not like we can just spam classical music on TV/radio/everywhere. :p
 

DeletedUser16008

Vic, which parts of the world don't have this problem? I mean, it's not like we can just spam classical music on TV/radio/everywhere. :p

There is a huge following of classical just about everywhere around the globe its just not mainstream. Try getting tickets to a classical performance and you'll see what I mean. The radio here in the UK has classical and has a huge listener base. Much of Asia, Europe and S America the same.

This isnt including traditional cultural music which is also massively popular in many parts of the world.

Pay no attn to the Biebers of this world, they come and they go just as fast and do not stand the test of time. Quality will always shine through even be it not as popular as whatever else is the current trend, it will still be there and hopefully never ruined by being prostituted to the masses for a few quid.
 

DeletedUser33353

Classical music is still very much appreciated in the South....tune into NPR...or, your local college radio station...
 

DeletedUser

Yeah, I don't really know what there is to debate. I don't see classical, pop, or any other genre even being in competition with each other. Hell, "pop" is one of the few genres of music I DON'T listen to. I get the impression that it's more for 13 y.o. girls than anything.

Classical music is still very much appreciated in the South....tune into NPR...or, your local college radio station...

Or go to Bass Hall in Fort Worth, TX and see the Fort Worth Symphony, the Texas Ballet Theater, the Fort Worth Opera, or come next year for the 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition. Or any other major city's concert hall, I think every major city in the south has one, just like the north, but none are as impressive as Bass Hall. ;)
 

DeletedUser28032

Well i don't listen to a lot of classical music but we have Classic Fm over here so it does gets air play if you know where to look for it
 

DeletedUser

I hate music, I hate people who listen to music, and I particularly hate gospel music and Christian rock. I think if there's going to be music in the world, it should all be Gregorian chant. Now that's some stuff I can rock to.

(( this is a public announcement from your neighborly hatemonger ))
 

DeletedUser

I love Gregorian chant! :D
I doubt anyone has been listening to that lately. :p
 

DeletedUser28032

hmmm Gregorian chant...or Iron Maiden....gee thats a tough one but it think Maiden just edges in the lead
 

DeletedUser563

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/benjamin_zander_on_music_and_passion.html
Today's pop music is quite boring: slightly catchy lyrics about love or whatever, a new rhythm, and a very simplistic, over-used 4 chord progression repeated ad infinitum. The focus is on the singer's voice and the words, which allows for no depth, especially when everything is pretty much recycled. In stark contrast, classical music is rich, diverse, and addresses a whole range of emotions. Contemporary pianists, like Kyle Landry, do an excellent job by being source of more musical depth, but aren't as well known as Justin Bieber. Is there a place for classical music in modern culture and how can we revive it/bring it to the masses?

i was kinda bored and not in the mood to do major research for a debate so stumbled on this gem that requires not that much research. This is wrong you make a very general statement that pop music is boring. It takes as much effort and creativity to make a piece of music that is catchy and sells than kyle landry takes with his music.

Furthermore the genre covers a lot of artist and music. This is just the old argument that your music is boring etc while mine is great. lastly i do not think that you need to make classical music mainstream. As long as there is a more diversified market for music it is better for more artist than trying to capture and conform to a specific market.

As to comments about justin bieber i think in time you will be in for a great surprise.I saw a documentary of him and he is actually quite a good musician from a very young age. The talent is indeed strong in that one. :D Not that I like his current music
 
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DeletedUser28032

Although I am willing to admit that pop artist's (or at least some of them) do have some form of talent in order to do what they're doing. The main stream stuff that gets played on Radio 1 all seems to be somewaht samey and wishy washy that and i am not into the whole Hip hop dance music thing give me a guitar player like Joe Bonamassa any day
 

DeletedUser563

perhaps but what do you consider as pop. for example evanescence had a big hit i think with their first album? pop or not? not 100% certain and then you go a few months down the line and they wrote kelly clarkson entire first album which was also a major hit. none of these albums i would say was minor works or could be made of as wishy washy works. Im going back a few years now but I would chose yello's stella album as a masterpiece above about 99% of rock and classical music. still wasnt the genre pop ?.

said:
http://top40.about.com/od/popmusic101/a/popmusic.htm The definition of pop music is purposefully flexible as the music that is identified as pop is constantly changing. At any particular point in time it may be easiest to identify pop music as that which is successful on the pop music charts. For the past 50 years the most successful musical styles on the pop charts have continually changed and evolved. However, there are some consistent patterns in what is identified as pop music.

Music Accessible To the Widest Audience

Since the mid-1950's pop music has usually been identified as the music and the musical styles that are accessible to the widest audience. This means the music that sells the most copies, draws the largest concert audiences, and is played most often on the radio. After Bill Haley's "Rock Around the Clock" hit #1 on music charts in 1955 the most popular music became the records influenced by rock 'n roll instead of the songs and light standards that had dominated TV's Your Hit Parade weekly countdown show. Since 1955 the music that appeals to the widest audience, or pop music, has been dominated by sounds that are still rooted in basic elements of rock 'n roll.
Pop Music and Song Structure

One of the most consistent elements of pop music since the 1950's is the pop song. Pop music is not usually written, performed and recorded as a symphony, suite, or concerto. The basic form for pop music is the song and usually a song consisting of verse and repeated chorus. Most often the songs are between 2 1/2 minutes and 5 1/2 minutes in length. There have been notable exceptions. The Beatles' "Hey Jude" was an epic 7 minutes in length. However, in many cases, if the song is abnormally long, an edited version is released for radio airplay such as in the case of Don McLean's "American Pie." It was edited down from its original 8 1/2 minutes length to just over 4 minutes for radio airplay. On the other end of the spectrum, in the late 1950's and early 1960's some hit songs clocked in under 2 minutes in length.

Like other art forms that aim to attract a mass audience (movies, television, Broadway shows), pop music has been and continues to be a melting pot that borrows and assimilates elements and ideas from a wide range of musical styles. Rock, r&b, country, disco, punk, and hip hop are all specific genres of music that have influenced and been incorporated into pop music in various ways over the past 5 decades. Most recently, Latin music seems to be impacting pop music more significantly than at any point in the past.

Pure Pop and Power Pop

Although pop music continues to be a melting pot of styles, there is a genre of pop music that claims to be pop music in its purest form. This music, usually called pure pop or power pop, typically consists of relatively brief (not over 3 1/2 minutes) songs played on the standard electric guitar, bass and drums with vocals that have a very strong catchy chorus, or hook. Art is not a concern. Audience pleasure in listening to the song is the primary goal.

Among the top pure pop or power pop performers of the past are the Raspberries, Cheap Trick and the Memphis group Big Star. The Knack's #1 smash hit "My Sharona" is often considered the biggest power pop chart hit. In recent years groups like Jimmy Eat World, Fountains of Wayne, and Weezer have been seen as successors to classic power pop.

The problem I think is that rice tried to isolate what the genre is by referring to a few artist like justin bieber rather than doing the leg work and finding out precisely what is meant by pop music.

I will leave with a few songs if you say their boring or devoid of creativity you will just prove your ignorance on all things music.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDl9ZMfj6aE&ob=av3e
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV1XWJN3nJo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avCeJnw9WbQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnmyi_kC0Nc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C3zgYW_FAM

ps what you are referring to is best described as bubblegum pop.

Bubblegum pop (also known as bubblegum rock, bubblegum music, or simply bubblegum) is a genre of pop music with an upbeat sound contrived and marketed to appeal to pre-teens and teenagers, produced in an assembly-line process, driven by producers, often using unknown singers. Bubblegum's classic period ran from 1967 to 1972.[1] The second wave of bubblegum started two years later and ran until 1977 when disco took over and punk rock emerged (some critics have claimed bubblegum influenced punk).[2]
 
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DeletedUser16008

Keep this thread on topic, ie about classical. If you wish to discuss the nature, history etc of popular music with "pop" as it is now known start another thread.

Thanks
 

DeletedUser563

thank you victor for not reading the first post:

OP said:
Today's pop music is quite boring: slightly catchy lyrics about love or whatever, a new rhythm, and a very simplistic, over-used 4 chord progression repeated ad infinitum

That was an assertion about pop music. But I am starting to hate this particular forum. If you make an assertion or statement that is not proven I am not off topic if I debate and discuss that assertion or can I say.

All gay people is bad interior designers due to their over excessive use of pink and purple but lets look at the work of Yvonne Chang which is neo modernist. Do you think her work is of value.

That is some messed up debating to start off with.


So in my opinion one is able to discuss any part of the original statement because in logic the rule is

submission + submission = conclusion

therefore I can attack submission to disprove the conclusion. The fact that the OP later says guess here is not many thirteen year olds defending pop music later on in the thread just proves that Im not off topic or that threads needs to be cleared up by the moderator in charge of this forum. If you want this to be a discussion only on classical music please remove the incorrect and ill informed assertions made about pop music. Please clear up HS post on micro and macro evolution. Your threads is generally a mess which in most cases distracts from the debate.

And this kind of behavior is exactly why classical music would not be be popular to the masses. There is the impression that you must wear formal wear that only snobs supports it. Only the high society. If you want your music to be popular to the masses they must be able to associate with it on some kind of level. I will prove my statement now : do not close the thread.
 
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DeletedUser16008

Sigh*

Is there a place for classical music in modern culture and how can we revive it/bring it to the masses?

Was the question and title of the debate, rice's other comments were a personal opinion and not the title or question he has posed. Try understanding the point of a topic before you unwittingly go off on another tangent.

This is not a classical vs pop thread and further attempts here to make it so will result in posts being deleted and any other appropriate action.
 

DeletedUser

I find it interesting that a discussions over classical music's place in modern culture and the ability to bring it back into popularity does not involve the discussion of what is currently in it's place or to why it is currently preferred over classical music.

Classical music is already widespread in modern culture, it is generally in doctors offices, elevators, and other places where the music is preferred to be the least offensive possible to the most people. It will not be accepted much more then it already is without imposing or forcing it onto people who will likely reject it much the same as they already do in favor for the pop music they prefer as they already do.

Since this discussion is limited or handicapped to only classical music, I guess this thread is done now?
 

DeletedUser

Jakkals, please note that I was talking from the perspective of musical analysis. If you reduce the song down to just the chords, you will find the harmonic texture to be boring.

http://ask.metafilter.com/123361/Help-me-unlock-the-power-of-the-four-chords
http://jaltcoh.blogspot.com/2009/06/2-most-overused-chord-progressions-in.html
tl;dr http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qHBVnMf2t7w

As for your comment that only snobs listen to classical music......have you ever gone 'I wonder how bands make music or I want to know how to play that song or make my own songs, etc'? I'm guessing not.....Also, a ph.d in music is not required to appreciate classical music, just google 'music theory' and there are plenty of resources.

Now, it's not like I analyse every song and completely avoid listening to anything non-classical, but it doesn't hurt to know how music works. Regarding kidkade's comment, classical music can be seen as a universal across cultures since it taps into your emotions with only an otherwise benign collection of pitches and rhythms. Pretty amazing if you ask me.
 
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