Changes to dueling - not a whiney thread

[DeletedUser]

I've been thinking about the changes in dueling the devs have promised are coming.

Duels

We are also going to work on changing duels. We would like duels to take place on the map instead of only in cities. As well as this, we would like to introduce more depth and tactical options, such as special attacks and special defences.

http://forum.the-west.net/showthread.php?t=10464

I sense disaster. While I would love to see dueling taken out of towns and onto the map as that makes more sense there are going to be a lot of problems unless changes are made to dueling rules.

Instead of town camping duelers will now job site camp. Every worker that tries to do the job Drilling for Oil will find themselves elbow to elbow with 4 duelers. Duelers can simply sit at that job site all day long and duel anybody that tries to work it, no matter what town they are from. This is going to result in workers getting constantly KO'd every time they try to work a high cash paying job. We already get way too many complaints from workers about being hit and camped. The consolation to them was they get lots of high xp and high cash jobs early in the game. The new dueling changes will take even that small bit of comfort away as workers will be afraid to do these jobs because they don't want to be gangbanged. I know I wouldn't want to be a worker under those circumstances. I think they will find more complaints about dueling and more people quitting the game because of dueling.

If the devs are going to make these changes I suggest that they change the dueling rules as well. Instead of a player only being able to duel another player once every hour they change it to a player can only be dueled once per hour. This will cut down on players ganging up on another player and allow the target to seek refuge and restore HP before being KO'd.

 

[DeletedUser]

What's the point of taking duels to the map?

 

[DeletedUser]

It will cut down on hotel camping so duelers can't sleep/hit/sleep/hit over and over again. It also just makes more sense to go to the place where the player is actually at than to go to their town and duel them when they aren't even there.

 

[DeletedUser]

oh true. I agree with your idea to limit amount of times a player can be dueled in an hour.

 

[DeletedUser]

A way to get around that would be to send your workers with armed escorts to clear the job sites of hostile duelers. You might end up with some mini-shootouts for control of the best job sites.

 

[DeletedUser]

That will only work if your duelers have enough skill points to do the job as well since they can't even walk to that job without it. Of course that cuts both ways. Duelers can't duel you unless they have the skill points to be at that job as well. Nobody should have to team up with somebody to go do a job they do for 6 hours a day. Where is the fun in that for their escort

 

[DeletedUser]

If you think duelers aren't already checking to see who's silver mining and drilling for oil in the area they are in, you are mistaken. There's even one special spot that shall remain nameless that is the ultimate in high dollar payoff for the discerning dueler willing to travel on a moment's notice.
Enough of that, though.

I'd love to be able to ride out to the oil fields and hit someone out there attacking our workers. Much better than having to ride for 6 hours for a retributive strike. By the time you get out there, you're so ticked off you want to hit a lot more people than the one who attacked your workers. Of course, that sets in motion wars.

Much better and cleaner to just hit a person out there anywhere on the map.

 

[DeletedUser]

I want to be able to hit people out on the map. And yes I know people are looking to see who is working the high cash jobs. The difference is that instead of just going to one town and hitting the one person from that town working that job they can just go to the job site and hit everybody who steps foot there.

Do you really think workers are going to put up with it? Nobody is going to want to be a worker. People are going to quit the game. They won't even attempt Drilling at Oil if there is anybody there that might duel them. Hell, workers will start dueling workers at those job sites just for the extra cash before they head home.

 

[Diggo11]

It's amazing how we never see eye to eye on this. To be honest I don't see a disaster coming at all, if anything I see the disaster ending!

Firstly this means no more Hotel camping (except for the workers, that truly sucks for them). Now if duellers try hide in nearby hotels and spring out to attack nearby victims they'll have to walk back to the hotel, essentially giving check in time for duellers to get revenge. Also if they try camp job spots their wide open and on a level playing field, just as they should be imo.

Secondly, as you've already mentioned, they have to be able to see the job OR someone already has to be there. Now in newer worlds they will be few people able to access top level job spots and in older worlds with less people duellers may have to wait a while to move to their desired locations.

Finally as Check in Time weakened camping, this weakens if not destroys gang attacks. Why should multiple duellers not be able to go out and co-ordinate attacks on other duellers? Even myself, mainly playing as an adventurer, thinks that's a little unfair.

So yeah real role reversal here but I'm fine with the prediction of the intended system.

 

[DeletedUser]

Lol. You'd better make sure you have duelers that can do the jobs your top workers can then because otherwise your workers are sitting ducks. Your duelers won't be able to touch anyone attacking them. It takes no skill points to go to someone's town and duel them. You fall 1 skill point short of Building a Bridge or Drilling for Oil and you are rendered useless as defense. I can hear it now.
Worker "Player x keeps attacking me every time I drill for oil. Someone go get him"
Dueler "Sorry, we can't. He sits there all day and when he isn't he is in his hotel sleeping. We just don't have the skill points to even walk to that job"

So unless they change the dueling rules like I said or make it so you can walk to a job site without having 1 labor point in it, things could get very bad for workers.

Edit: And it's okay Diggo. I know we never see eye to eye. You can't help you are wrong all the time

 

[Diggo11]

Lol. You'd better make sure you have duelers that can do the jobs your top workers can then because otherwise your workers are sitting ducks. Your duelers won't be able to touch anyone attacking them. It takes no skill points to go to someone's town and duel them. You fall 1 skill point short of Building a Bridge or Drilling for Oil and you are rendered useless as defense. I can hear it now.
Worker "Player x keeps attacking me every time I drill for oil. Someone go get him"
Dueler "Sorry, we can't. He sits there all day and when he isn't he is in his hotel sleeping. We just don't have the skill points to even walk to that job"

So unless they change the dueling rules like I said or make it so you can walk to a job site without having 1 labor point in it, things could get very bad for workers.

Edit: And it's okay Diggo. I know we never see eye to eye. You can't help you are wrong all the time

@ Edit - :dry: :laugh:

Anyway I believe we are both taking the interpretation two different ways. The way I assume this will work is that there are two ways to move around a map. Way 1: Move to a job and cancel - Way 2: Move to a player for a duel. So when Dueller A attacks Worker A then Dueller B can go attack Dueller A regardless of whether or not he can do the job the worker was stationed at.

 

[DeletedUser]

I hope it is move to a player and duel. If it isn't then dueling will be nerfed. I wish we could get more info on how they plan on changing it other than taking it out of towns.

And you know I luff you Diggo.

 

[Diggo11]

Yay I convinced Denisero! (For now anyway.)

And should I be happy or scared that a pixie "luff"s me?

 

[DeletedUser]

I kind of like this idea, though I do see pros and cons for all of my characters.

Nobody would ever know if a soldier or dueler was working the job, or stalking it...

Edit: Oh yeah, I didn't even think about the Character profile Duel option! Good catch, Diggo!

 

[DeletedUser]

Makes me wonder. If you click duel to go to that player can they take you on a wild goose chase? What if you are faster than they are and you get to the destination first. They can just click cancel and end up back where they started instantaneously and you have to go there on mount. What if they are faster than you are and lead you around for a couple of hours then pop into a hotel? I'd hate to queue a duel and 4 hours later get a message the player was well protected in a hotel.

I wish they would tell us something more.

 

[Diggo11]

I'm guessing the duel occurs where the defender was when the challenger initiated the duel (assuming the challenger has an otherwise empty queue). To calculate otherwise would be very complex for the server.

 

[DeletedUser1105]

I always assumed that when out of town dueling was introduced, they would allow everyone to see every job. Of course, if you don't have the skill points you still couldn't work the job, but you could click on it and every job would have a 'walk to site' button, so that you are able to duel anyone, anywhere.

I completely agree that whilst this change needs to happen, they must be very careful how they do it.

I like the idea of only being dueled once per hour. Personally, I would prefer 2 hours so you can always complete a 'full' job after being hit, but I can see that 1 hours would be the fairest solution for all.

 

[DeletedUser]

My reservation about limiting the amount of duels to 1 per hour would be whats to stop sister towns disarming and attacking each other , rendering themselves untouchable from real duels?:sad:

 

[DeletedUser]

Good point. Although they are supposed to have some new function in the game to stop power leveling, which that would sort of be.

 

[DeletedUser]

...dueling is fine the way it is...if someone wants to prevent camping duelers,why don't they send dueler to camper's town to ko him...