Change the stamina skill to improve fortfighting

[DeletedUser22685]

futu the problem is very easy, i did an example on colo were 15 10k+ tanks on ST were down in about 10-12 rounds, unlike popular thought the majority off folks already did reskills and most of those tanks already had 92-148 hiding (+10-15 FF attack and defence) yet they dodged most of em like balls, they can ofcourse invest another 100 sp into hiding and lose another 2k hp, they might dodge slightly better, but then the decrease in hp still makes them unable to keep point. there been many fights now on many worlds, and where in the past even with 5-6 offliners you could flawlessly defend a small fight vs an attack with maybe 40-50k hp advantage(means equal or even lower hp per attacker) these days you have more chance of flawlessly losing them then actually manage to defend em.

In that case, perhaps damage needs to be dealt according to the max HP of the receiver. The current resistance formula doesn't allow for much of a difference in the damage taken by players with different amounts of HP and therefore speccing away from HP will still get you killed quicker. At the end of the day, the main goal in a fort fight is to survive, whether you do it by dodging shots or absorbing them.

 

[DeletedUser]

The current resistance formula doesn't allow for much of a difference in the damage taken by players with different amounts of HP and therefore speccing away from HP will still get you killed quicker. At the end of the day, the main goal in a fort fight is to survive, whether you do it by dodging shots or absorbing them.

Well perhaps the resistance formula needs to be tweaked. Because as it is now, on some worlds I've seen non-duelers with average damages of well over 500 every battle...

 

[DeletedUser]

Well perhaps the resistance formula needs to be tweaked. Because as it is now, on some worlds I've seen non-duelers with average damages of well over 500 every battle...

that is because the damage formula is bugged(it works as a multiplier instead of a mere plus) and overpowered, the resistance formula however is quite weak, and especially for larger hp not of much use but heck even at 2k hp whats the use of resting 30 damage, you still die in a few shots

 

[DeletedUser]

that is because the damage formula is bugged(it works as a multiplier instead of a mere plus) and overpowered, the resistance formula however is quite weak, and especially for larger hp not of much use but heck even at 2k hp whats the use of resting 30 damage, you still die in a few shots

That's my point. Though I honestly don't feel the damage formula is over-powered, I feel the resistance formula is UNDER-powered.

 

[DeletedUser]

Fort fighting need many changes, but I believe changing Stamina to Setting trap is not the best option. As I said it makes the full dexterity builds which are mostly ranged duellers from dueller class over powerful.

For resistance formula, I agree that it's too weak, for a low HP who cares if they get -10 to -50 less damage or not, they will die in a few shot. For tanks it's the same, while you can no dodge like before as defender what's the difference between receiving -20 or -30 damage from each shot while more shot is going to hit you.

 

[DeletedUser]

pure dexterity builds will far from being overpowerfull, they might get good stats in attacks, and thus hit decently, however they still lack hp or leadership and thus are very bad in moving, and in 4 shots they are dead. so yes pure ranged duellers might have good stats in fort fight attacks, but since they lack all other skills they won't pwn or rule such events simply due to lack of hp and other skills

 

[DeletedUser34862]

That's my point. Though I honestly don't feel the damage formula is over-powered, I feel the resistance formula is UNDER-powered.

+1

The damage formula as it is now is so much fun. The resistance formula could be made better (or made into a worker's bonus only at least), to pull points away from hp + on top surely Inno will release some resistance buffs, just like we have damage buffs.


What's in the clouds <withheld content> ?

 

[DeletedUser25947]

INNO - Bring back the old formula which worked for years!!! Find different ways to improve ( change ) FF'ing without destroying it!

 

[Nisa]

INNO - Bring back the old formula which worked for years!!! Find different ways to improve ( change ) FF'ing without destroying it!

Just keep in mind how long did it take for old formula to be accepted by some players. I have helped a many to reskill and even this year after all this time some didnt believe they would dodge or shoot good if they had 0 or 32 or 56 'only' and put the rest in HP.
Every big change needs more time for players to test it and adapt to it. If some tweaks are needed to be done its fine but bringing back the old formula is not a solution for better FF.

 

[DeletedUser]

well we can adapt to this but the formula is disbalanced, so it needs tweaks i am not fond on the idea of bring the old formula back. since change in the end is just good

i hope they will tweak the current ff system, with for example changing stamina to setting traps and some slight adjustments to the formula's, and then continue on renewing fortfighting(different maps etc) since if we keep everything it was people get bored and quit, and we need challenges(but beatable challenges, not like the ff system is now)

 

[DeletedUser]

http://forum.beta.the-west.net/showthread.php?p=24011#post24011

seems despite zzd3no forgetting to ever put this idea up to vote, the devs finally saw the light(thanks futu!) and the well needed change is coming (i'd still think it would save em a helluva lot of coding time if they just make stamina a dexterity skills and for instance, setting traps or fms a strength skill, then you don't need to adjust clothing etc)

 

[DeletedUser30224]

http://forum.beta.the-west.net/showthread.php?p=24011#post24011

seems despite zzd3no forgetting to ever put this idea up to vote, the devs finally saw the light(thanks futu!) and the well needed change is coming (i'd still think it would save em a helluva lot of coding time if they just make stamina a dexterity skills and for instance, setting traps or fms a strength skill, then you don't need to adjust clothing etc)

I have not forgotten about this heap of mess, and therefore never proposed it up for a vote. That was your job to do anyhow. You never asked for a poll, I never offered.

 

[DeletedUser]

I have not forgotten about this heap of mess, and therefore never proposed it up for a vote. That was your job to do anyhow. You never asked for a poll, I never offered.

ow lol thats new to me in the past rebow just made stuff up for polling

 

[DeletedUser]

This is the worse that can happen to fort fighting, hope this never change in .net worlds and just be a FAIL test on beta. As I said before it makes pure range duellers GODLIKE in fort fighting, with both high aim and FMS. Also it makes it so easy to get to Golden Gun, not for fort fighters that have +90% of AP in strength and +90% of AP in HEALTH it's suck a pain to be able to do grave rubber or Work as travelling merchant to get KEY 3. With this change it's much easier to have GOLDEN GUN. And STRENGTH will be useless: Those products from hard construction jobs are useless. Pure construction build is worthless with nerf to exp gain from church. Now we are removing HP and Stamin. Good job. 1 big step to make this game worse.

 

[DeletedUser]

you do know having 80 aim or 280 aim barely have any influence on your fort fights? 2-3 FF attack maybe? that really really neglectible if you consider on the ground these days most already got 70 ff attack.

so no they won't be godlike in fortfighting, yes they might be better then before in fortfight attacks... so what they still lack hp

and this change was done to get rid of everyone being pure strength and people actually having to think where to put their AP

and i am sorry getting key 3 is horribly easy also for forters, forters on top of that get heaps and heaps of bonds making reskilling for key 3 also easy.

secondly what you will see with this change most forters will do 50% mob and dex, put some sp into ld, and some liking skills also in hiding and fms and the rest in hp

means also ff'ers can do a lot of jobs more easy.

other option you might see is that forters(tanks) divide their AP evenly over LD, mob and dex, get addition hiding\fms\ld from clothes and put all! sp into health.

i am sorry but if you haven't experienced or atleast noticed attacks were way overpowered due to the importance there of the stamina skill, but matter of fact is that it is and that heavily damaged fortfighting, this change will cause people having to rethink their build, and it will also get the devs to achieve their main goal, is lowering the hp on the battlefield

 

[DeletedUser]

I would much prefer to see a yellow skill like tactics be used that could be relevant to real life rather than a skill you fine tune as a child.

 

[DeletedUser]

you do know having 80 aim or 280 aim barely have any influence on your fort fights? 2-3 FF attack maybe? that really really neglectible if you consider on the ground these days most already got 70 ff attack.

It's not 2 or 3, in case of 80 aim it will be 5.5 and for 280 it's 9,5 which is huge. In either case, if you also add the fact that pure range duellers can get buff like this it will be over power. Also the current situation of pure strength will just change to pure dex.

They will have high resistance too as a reward of low HP and high FMS in attacks.
Right now premium pure range duellers are worthless in fort fights, in both is attacks and defence, but with this change they will be much more powerful in attacks rather than defence, so this change will also make the edge that the attackers have right now bigger.

so no they won't be godlike in fortfighting, yes they might be better then before in fortfight attacks... so what they still lack hp

That's enough to make fort fighting harder. You remove the strength of the current build and just give it to others like duellers.

The only positive point I see in this is "more people can be effective in fort fighting, so in those worlds with that have problem filling the attacks it can help"

i am sorry but if you haven't experienced or atleast noticed attacks were way overpowered due to the importance there of the stamina skill, but matter of fact is that it is and that heavily damaged fortfighting, this change will cause people having to rethink their build, and it will also get the devs to achieve their main goal, is lowering the hp on the battlefield

Unfortunately this change wont do any good for "attacker be more powerful" just to make it worse: This will make pure range duellers much more powerful in attack side while they will be as useless as before in defend side.

 

[DeletedUser30224]

As long as you keep your HP in forts, you will own everything. It was always like that and no matter what changes they bring, HP rules as it always had. If absolutely everyone goes wild and ignores HP, then fights will truly last 20 rounds only. A thing that will never happen. The alliance with most hp will always win battles. Maybe players will have less Hp than currently, but never bare bone. I welcome the change, but am not standing disillusioned. A balance must be struck, people without HP will find themselves hard to get ranked in high populated active worlds. I would love for the update to reset both STR and Stamina, instead of just Stamina. It would seem wise to move STR to both DEX and MOB, reduce from Hiding, dodging and aiming and pump up to FMS and HP.

 

[DeletedUser33342]

So what you ask is to completely mix the whole skill-system. AGAIN.

Inno has made a lot of item sets that were made for fortfights. what's your plan around that?

i spent a lot of money on these items to improve my fortfighting. now this will be a waste of money.
unless you change the stamina of these sets into FMS.

in W12 we can defend our forts and conquer new ones.
i don't see a need to change the skill. in these modern times you better put 1 skill into FF: Trading.

 

[DeletedUser]

As long as you keep your HP in forts, you will own everything. It was always like that and no matter what changes they bring, HP rules as it always had. If absolutely everyone goes wild and ignores HP, then fights will truly last 20 rounds only. A thing that will never happen. The alliance with most hp will always win battles. Maybe players will have less Hp than currently, but never bare bone. I welcome the change, but am not standing disillusioned. A balance must be struck, people without HP will find themselves hard to get ranked in high populated active worlds. I would love for the update to reset both STR and Stamina, instead of just Stamina. It would seem wise to move STR to both DEX and MOB, reduce from Hiding, dodging and aiming and pump up to FMS and HP.

You are totally wrong, as HP is still one of the most important but with new formula it's not as important as before, with new formula preserving HP is one big factor, also the damage that you can cause is important too.

Anyway, back to the original topic: I still say if you want to do something to remove the edge of the attackers there are plenty many other ways: For example increasing available spots in each tower, increasing wall protections, giving each defender inside fort some bonus attack and defence value, and reducing the attack and defence value of attackers when they enter the fort or even towers.

Removing stamina and replacing it with FMS or any other skill is not solving the problem, even if it solve this problem will cause more problems both it fort fights and will also make the overall skill build in game more unbalance.