Rejected Balancing the Shaman - Poll

[DeletedUser8627]

And this thread is going to be closed if this topic strays more than it already has.

Healthy discussion is intended by these threads, not bashing other players because of their opinions.

 

[HelenBack]

Hello, my name is HelenBack, and I'm a noob. I play on ALL worlds and both Betas.
:whistle:

As requested from Balancing the Shamun - Poll requested.

The idea here is to have a vote about the Shaman but also considering the following issues.

The Shaman, when respeccing, it takes 1 day for a skill point to recover by $10.
As with an attribute point, it also takes 1 day to recover $10, not $50 as expected because it is 5 skills points being moved. 5 skill points indeed equals $50 but should also equal 5 days (1 day = $10).

Issues that could occur is that this change will reflect globally, meaning it will also reflect on worlds that have the option 'Placate Shaman'. The option to add the 'Placate Shaman' to world 1 is non-negotiable.

I have already posted twice about other potential issues in detail.

Please see #122 and #131.

As stated here... "this change will reflect globally, meaning it will also reflect on worlds that have the option 'Placate Shaman'"

So, this is a bad idea because it isn't just about World 1... it's about ALL worlds. Since it is going to affect ALL worlds, EVERYONE has the right to voice their opinions!

BTW, I am usually broke in most worlds since I tend to help out more people than I get in return... So, would this help me? Yup... absolutely it would! But that does not make it right!

Sometimes we have to stop looking selfishly at how this would affect ourselves... and look at how it will affect the whole West community.


I voted NO... World 1 should remain "Classic"... as that is why people are there. Some like the 2 hour jobs! So they are in w1. Don't change it... please!

 

[HelenBack]

Helenback at this moment this idea seemed to be promoted for world 1 alone. The questions refers to world1. I think and have stated that AP reduction is not as much of a factor for level 100 players on others world and even for lower levels with placate shaman. Therefore increasing the Ap on other worlds will almost have zero effect. Furthermore you are incorrect you quote Da Twista in the top of your posts and then misquote him on the bottom the operative word he used is could not will as you state in the bottom part. I also dont see any counter argument to this idea in your posts. perhaps you should explain to us why this would be a bad idea rather than just saying it is.

Actually, aside from adding bold to the text, you will find it's an exact quote of the first post in this thread...

Issues that could occur is that this change will reflect globally, meaning it will also reflect on worlds that have the option 'Placate Shaman'. The option to add the 'Placate Shaman' to world 1 is non-negotiable.

I have already posted twice about other potential issues in detail.

Please see #122 and #131.

If you look at #122, you will see "If there were going to be changes to world 1 then all other worlds would also be changed".

The options given in this poll are showing that they are meant just for World 1... But the change will be made across the board! This has been stated multiple times... If you want to make a poll for this change for ALL worlds... Then you will find a lot more opposition.


The difference is, those who glance over the question and want the easier scenario... Vs those who actually care about the game balance and look at the facts before making a decision. There is no way that this should be pushed through by stating it will only affect World 1 when it will affect ALL worlds. Even if there is the slightest chance that this could become the standard for all worlds, it should have the questions changed in the poll stating it "will affect ALL worlds".

I also agree that 1 SP is 1 SP... 1 AP is 5 SP and therefore SHOULD take longer to reduce.

Oh btw, I'm also in the midst of changing some skills around on World 1... So ya, if I wanted the "easy way", I would vote for it. Am I rich? Hardly... lol But I would rather have a challenge than the "easy way". If I wanted the easy way, I would be a tank for all fort battles so I could just run to the flag to steal the fort... but where is the fun or challenge in that?

 

[DeletedUser]

I think I read in this topic that 80% rules apply here even though the previous 80% polls had
two options only.So which way the neutral votes will be counted?

It counts as a yes for you.....and then you only need to double your yeses to get the 80%....good luck

 

[DeletedUser8627]

This thread is now closed.

 

[DeletedUser8627]

There is no need to argue amongst yourselves, it does not work plus you are trying to prove some sort of a point making it sound stupid.

This discussion is open again, but: - one problem, consider yourself banned from this forum. -Neo-, Jakkals and Jesse James' responses will be ignored.

I have taken a look at the replies, we have a bunch who so want this yet we also have a group who don't want changes to this world. A change in configuration of this calibre will reflect in all worlds. This means coding from the development team and it will not happen soon, I can tell you that much. Plus it will not be viable considering those who argued their point when we introduced the premium options.

Alternately we switch on the premium option to Placate Shaman in world 1 - Also not viable because it's a premium option on a non premium world.

Attributes are the equivalent of five skill points - they're meant to take five times as long to respec. Even though it's one click. You will in no way, no matter how you argue your point, it will always be five skill points.

At the time these changes and decisions were made, Diggo11 and Hellstromm were in position to have their influence on changes - They both denied this idea.

Maybe you should not look at your character but look at the other players in World 1.

 

[DeletedUser]

Don't tell me that you managed to ignore 10 times more important and more interesting issues yet you give as poll about this?

Correct me if i'm wrong but you decide what suggestion will be voted on. So far i saw a lot of great ones but wasn't in position to vote on single one, and yet somehow we are voting on this , and this is not great brainstorm...

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, i don't mind if this thing goes either way, but prioritize people prioritize!

Obviously they're not ignoring all other issues, nor is there a problem with prioritization. Maybe you haven't been around to pay attention to all the things that have been added to the game. Polls are put up when they're considering a change and don't have enough community input.

So, do you have a problem with them asking for community input?


As to the idea, I'm honestly a bit confused as to what is being presented. What is it now and what is the proposed change? see my next post

 

[DeletedUser]

this might help. The opposition to this idea states that given the abundance of money, the shaman reset time shouldn't matter and choosing to burn through a pile of money to move a large amount of sp/ap all at once or waiting for the daily/every 5 days reset to move a point is up to the player.

 

[DeletedUser]

Okay, I read and reread everything. Seems a lot of people are making a helluva lot of hoopla about something they didn't even bother to understand. So here it is in the most simplified of presentations:

What it is now (Shaman):
Skills cost recovers at $10 a day, which is 20% of the base cost ($50).
Attributes cost recovers at $10 a day, which is 4% of the base cost ($250).

What is proposed (Shaman):
Skills cost recovers at $10 a day, which is 20% of the base cost ($50).
Attributes cost recovers at $50 a day, which is 20% of the base cost ($250).​

That's pretty simple, don't you think?

Considering it looks like an oversight on the part of the programmers/developers, I advocate the change be made. In this manner, skills and attributes will recover at the same rate, for paying and non-paying players alike.

It doesn't imbalance the gameplay in the slightest and has almost no impact on the game as a whole. If anything, it helps out non-paying players, as paying players can use *Placate Shaman* to expedite this process. So, let's not get all convoluted in these discussions and let's just stick to the point.

 

[DeletedUser363]

I don't see how this was an oversight of the developers. The developers believe that 1AP=5SP. Therefore it is logical that it takes 5 times as longer for an attribute to recover than a skill point. As John Colt said in the discussion thread:

Moving 5 SP at lowest cost(1 per day), will take 5 days and cost 5x$50 = $250
Moving 1 AP at lowest cost, will take 5 days and cost $250

Like I said before, I still think that respeccing(especially AP's) takes too long if you can't afford to pay premium, but as long as the game reckons that 1AP=5SP, todays system makes perfect sense.

And about your second statement:

It doesn't imbalance the gameplay in the slightest and has almost no impact on the game as a whole. If anything, it helps out non-paying players, as paying players can use *Placate Shaman* to expedite this process.

I disagree with your point about the idea having no impact on the game as a whole. The change would have an impact on people who have already spent money on respeccing. New players would be able to respec 5 attribute points at the cost of $250 each in 25 days, while older ones could only respec 1 attribute point at the same cost in 25 days.

I can see why people would want this idea to be passed. This change would make reskilling for quests a lot easier (especially the Animal Spirits quest.) However my belief is that if you want to reskill without waiting for a long time, you have the option of paying more money.

 

[DeletedUser]

The change would have an impact on people who have already spent money on respeccing.

I don't think that should even be taken into consideration. You and others spent a lot of money doing it the hard way, like realm of deceit, who's probably spent more money on respeccing than anyone. The same could be said of anyone who respecced on any other world before placate shaman was added. There have been many changes that have made things easier for people today that doesn't take away from what anyone accomplished before they were implemented. Is it fair to people who had to find their own note part 1 when people today can just spend $2k and get one from the market?

Neutral btw.

 

[DeletedUser]

w1 should stay classic. The other worlds should be able to evolve as needed.

Anyone can play this game for free. That is the awesomeness of this game. Yeah its annoying that I have to wait days and days and days and days for the shaman to drop back down, but hey ITS FREE if you wanna put in the TIME. If you dont want to wait, then put up some cash or get off the computer lol.

I can never see why someone would be so quick to max out their level...no xp is a waste. and imagine how much xp you waste just sitting at the cap level.

I like how that one poster moves over some AP/SP then waits a few days then repeats as much as necessary. On some worlds I play I do'nt even assign my AP/SP when i level up unless I need it for a questline, just so I dont have to pay to reskill and back.

i dunno if this post was way off topic. sorry if it was.

 

[DeletedUser]

John Colt's comment is speculative, at best. He poses an erroneous theory of 1AP = 5SP.

As to this other comment about reskilling for quests, the game has changed significantly since these settings were put into the game. Quests have hit the gamut, with many new features and a far greater need for character design flexibility. So, if you truly want to compare old for new, I seriously suggest you take that into consideration.

 

[DeletedUser]

The change would have an impact on people who have already spent money on respeccing. New players would be able to respec 5 attribute points at the cost of $250 each in 25 days, while older ones could only respec 1 attribute point at the same cost in 25 days.

have you ever heard the saying "Things change?"

 

[DeletedUser]

Obviously they're not ignoring all other issues, nor is there a problem with prioritization. Maybe you haven't been around to pay attention to all the things that have been added to the game. Polls are put up when they're considering a change and don't have enough community input.

So, do you have a problem with them asking for community input?

Now they ARE ignoring all the issues and there is HUGE problem with prioritization. What happened before is not a subject here, i was first to applaud them for positive changes and listening to the community but they moved away from doing that... Far away...

Polls are put on propositions which will be rejected regardless of voting outcome if we judge it by this. For Inno to throw away one stable source of income, after all they have been doing recently is impossible, this is just smoke blowing...

Count the proposals that you consider decent Hell and tell me how many have been put on voting or included in recent updates.

 

[DeletedUser21582]

John Colt's comment is speculative, at best. He poses an erroneous theory of 1AP = 5SP.

Can you explain the error? Moving 1 AP will change the values of 5 skills; the same effect would happen if you move 5 SP.

 

[DeletedUser]

Can you explain the error? Moving 1 AP will change the values of 5 skills; the same effect would happen if you move 5 SP.

1 AP in charisma is 3 SP towards ambush stage.
1 AP in charisma is 2 SP towards chasing bandits
1 AP in charisma is 1 SP towards exploration

5 SP in leadership is 5 SP towards ambush stage, chasing bandits, and exploration.

 

[DeletedUser9470]

1 AP in charisma is 3 SP towards ambush stage.
1 AP in charisma is 2 SP towards chasing bandits
1 AP in charisma is 1 SP towards exploration

5 SP in leadership is 5 SP towards ambush stage, chasing bandits, and exploration.

moving 1 AP in charisma is moving
1sp in leadership>many jobs and fort battles
1sp in tactics> jobs and defensive duels
1sp in trading>jobs
1sp in animal insinct> jobs
1sp in charisma>jobs and dueling

1AP=5SP. period.

 

[DeletedUser]

moving 1 AP in charisma is moving
1sp in leadership>many jobs and fort battles
1sp in tactics> jobs and defensive duels
1sp in trading>jobs
1sp in animal insinct> jobs
1sp in charisma>jobs and dueling

Only if you do fort battles.
Only if you duel.
Only if you do jobs that use those skills.

SP are more versatile than AP. I don't think anyone disagrees that if given a choice between 1 AP and 5 SP, as in the adventurer quests, SP are the way to go because of that versatility. With the railroad quests, 1 AP does beat 2 SP, but if the choice was 3 SP, I'd take the SP every time.

Buying a combo pack with 5 different flavors is a good deal if you like every flavor, but it's a waste of money if you're only going to eat one.

 

[DeletedUser]

technically, you still get 5 flavors, even if you don't like them all, so 1 ap = 5 sp, but not all sp are created equal.

Is it fair to people who had to find their own note part 1 when people today can just spend $2k and get one from the market?

Opportunity Cost: you have 2 options, spending more money and less time waiting, or spending less money and more time waiting.