Adjustments to character class advantages to balance soldiers and duelers

DeletedUser

I disagree with changing the dueler's bonuses to the ones that you suggested. My first impression of these two classes were that the role of the dueler was to rob helpless workers and the role of the soldier was to defend the workers from the duelers. (I realize that different people use different classes for different things, but this is simply the overall feel that these classes have to me.)

The current bonuses increase the rewards of dueling for duelers, while improving dueling effectiveness for soldiers, but the suggested bonus changes would essentially make the dueler an offensive version of the soldier. If there are going to be changes to the dueler's bonuses, the current bonuses should simply be increased rather than completely changing the essence of what it means to be a dueler class.:nowink:
 

Deleted User - 819397

Now THAT'S a great idea. I'm all for that, but if this goes through, then all the classes should benefit in some way.
 

DeletedUser

Since I began playing this game, there have been two common complaints about the classes:

1. The soldier class advantages are too good.
2. The dueler class advantages are not good enough.

This thread tries to address those perceived issues. It is presumed that the other classes have good, but not over-powering advantages.

Taken from that point of view, I think reducing the soldier's tactics bonus and either raising the dueler's current advantages (as I suggested earlier) or changing the dueler's current advantages (as suggested by the OP), I don't think is an unreasonable suggestion so long as the other classes continue to remain balanced.

I don't think that you need to "throw builders and adventurers a bone" simply because you are addressing an issue with soldiers and duelers.
 
Harsha..

Harsha..

Well-Known Member
deadtom11 said:
I disagree with changing the dueler's bonuses to the ones that you suggested. My first impression of these two classes were that the role of the dueler was to rob helpless workers and the role of the soldier was to defend the workers from the duelers. (I realize that different people use different classes for different things, but this is simply the overall feel that these classes have to me.)

The current bonuses increase the rewards of dueling for duelers, while improving dueling effectiveness for soldiers, but the suggested bonus changes would essentially make the dueler an offensive version of the soldier. If there are going to be changes to the dueler's bonuses, the current bonuses should simply be increased rather than completely changing the essence of what it means to be a dueler class.:nowink:
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well, duelers are also important

just increasing the current bonuses will have no benefit, all of they are worthless

mate...if soldiers are for defending the workers of a town, who will strike back at the attackers???

DUELERS

they are the characters, who punish the enmney attackers for attacking the poor workers and keep them under watch, so that they don't attack again
 

Deleted User - 819397

Well, they do that already without having extra bonuses.
 

DeletedUser

I disagree with you harsha,soldiers may be the best defence but duelers are not the best offence.Soldiers are the best offence and defense they can buy weapons 3 levels high then them that means better weapons deal more damage to the enemy,of course.They also have more health points so that means they duel the enemy for longer through the day.
 

DeletedUser

so, how about dueler have appearance bonus ONLY when they fight solider?
 

DeletedUser

Being a dueler myself, I really think that the advantages of duelers need to be changed to something better. Just a bit better will help.
 

Deleted User - 819397

Why, so you can rise above the rest???? Really, people are just getting greedy. Leave the classes where they are.
 
Harsha..

Harsha..

Well-Known Member
thewildwestern said:
I disagree with you harsha,soldiers may be the best defence but duelers are not the best offence.Soldiers are the best offence and defense they can buy weapons 3 levels high then them that means better weapons deal more damage to the enemy,of course.They also have more health points so that means they duel the enemy for longer through the day.
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No, this means that the soldier class is way better than the dueler class, which means that many more people will choose soldiers, and no one will choose the dueler class

this will make it totally useless, still "duelers" are an essential part of The west and can never be scrapped, so for this class to survive and to avoid being "over shadowed" by the others, new advantages must be incorporated and changes made, this will give players a greater range of choice for character class

Lord Regal said:
Why, so you can rise above the rest???? Really, people are just getting greedy. Leave the classes where they are.
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well, you should always be open to change, just like Niska said, people would want to change fort battles and keep in new jobs, which means, that MORE people would be happy with new additions to changes to the dueler's advantages

this can be shown in a poll, if it was started!
 

DeletedUser

Harsha.. said:
No, this means that the soldier class is way better than the dueler class, which means that many more people will choose soldiers, and no one will choose the dueler class
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And what's wrong with that? The worker class is way better at building towns than the soldier class-that's not fair. The adventurer class gets more and better items from jobs than the soldier class-that's not fair. The dueler class can go farther to duel, can duel more times in a day, and get better rewards than the soldier class-that's not fair.:p

Soldiers will dominate duelers in a fight, but that is useless if the dueler that they are trying to KO is doing what all other duelers, robbers, and murderers did in the real west by running away and hiding. In the west, did the James gang ever attack the police? How about Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid? They ran for as long as they could and only fought when it was the only option left.:bandit:
 

DeletedUser

deadtom11 said:
And what's wrong with that? The worker class is way better at building towns than the soldier class-that's not fair. The adventurer class gets more and better items from jobs than the soldier class-that's not fair. The dueler class can go farther to duel, can duel more times in a day, and get better rewards than the soldier class-that's not fair.:p
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Think before talking... Dueler and Soldier classes are made for fights and both classes need to be balanced because a dueler is useless against a soldier. All soldiers bonuses are used in the duels (Tactic, -3lvls req. for a weapon and health points) and duelers only get a funny 10% more cash. :dry:
 

DeletedUser

DSG said:
All soldiers bonuses are used in the duels (Tactic, -3lvls req. for a weapon and health points) and duelers only get a funny 10% more cash. :dry:
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I would argue this statement.

1. Tactics are only used if the soldier is attacked. I've already discussed this bonus a bit and admitted that it is too high, though.

2. Getting access to weapons 3 levels early is only useful until you reach the max level of the weapon you intend to use. If you use the Precise Buntline, that's level 78. I, personally, use the Precise Shofield which is level 73. The sharp calvary sword is level 73 as well. Hernando's is level 50. So...for much of the game, I would argue that this bonus is useless.

3. Overall, the Health Points bonus is somewhat useful (especially now with forts), I'll admit, but for any particular fight, it's probably not necessary. This bonus is probably useless if you are a melee fighter. You probably have too many health points from pumping points into Str, anyway. It's only really necessary when fighting a bunch of battles at one time (or in Fort battles). Hit Points is the only dueling skill that I've put points into and later backed points out of because I didn't feel that I needed as much as I've had. This is another advantage that as you gain levels, becomes less and less important.
 
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DeletedUser

Adelei Niska said:
I would argue this statement.

3. Overall, the Health Points bonus is somewhat useful (especially now with forts), I'll admit, but for any particular fight, it's probably not necessary. This bonus is probably useless if you are a melee fighter. You probably have too many health points from pumping points into Str, anyway. It's only really necessary when fighting a bunch of battles at one time (or in Fort battles). Hit Points is the only dueling skill that I've put points into and later backed points out of because I didn't feel that I needed as much as I've had. This is another advantage that as you gain levels, becomes less and less important.
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Health isn't useless when you face a good enough dueler that makes you 1200+ damage in 1 duel, isn't the same when you are a soldier, A range dueler has around 900 health points at level 60 (approximately) and I have few soldier friends that has already 900-1000 HP on level 40. So is the health bonus really useless in duels ? And who has more possibilities to die in a duel ? Duelers right ?
 

DeletedUser

The hit point forumulas are as follows:

Soldier:
Max Health points = (character level)*10 + (skill points in health)*15 + 90.
For any other character:
Max Health points = (character level)*10 + (skill points in health)*10 + 90.

Let's say that you have a level 20 character with 20 points in Health.

Soldier
590 HP
Dueler
490 HP

Not bad, right? 100 hit points at level 20 is a big deal.

Let's look at that bonus if you are level 75, a melee fighter and have 75 points of Str (with quest attribute points and items).

Soldier
1965 HP
Dueler
1590 HP

How much of the time is that extra 375 hit points really going to make a difference?

I'll say it again, the HP bonus isn't all that much. It's useful, but not as much of an advantage as you make it out to be. And it is certainly not universally used. It is situational.

1. Its use diminishes as one gets higher level.
2. At a certain point, extra hit points don't help all that much. People just aren't going to hit you that hard. It's useful in Fort battles and if you engage in a bunch of duels at once. Otherwise, not so much.
3. I'll add another reason why this bonus is situational... If you are a resistance fighter (and not a zero motivation dueler), all those extra hit points are just about meaningless. You never get hit close to hard enough to justify that much padding.
 
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