I'm Gay, but if I admit it I will be shunned.

[DeletedUser31931]

SORRY, HAVING SEEN THIS POST ON PAGE TWO I FELT THE REAL NEED TO REPLY TO IT.

I fully agree that the term 'marriage' is a religious thing. People who feel/believe that marriage is only for a man and a woman, shouldn't be fighting/voting influencing government to restrict the same rights and privileges to people who are gay, but should be fighting that government should not recognise straight marriage either. Or like you said, take the wordage of marriage out, call BOTH gay and straight 'marriages' CIVIL UNIONS or DOMESTIC PARTNERSHIPS.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT! ARE YOU SAYING THAT ONLY CHRISTIANS (OR MAYBE ONLY CATHOLICS) SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO "MARRY"? WHAT IS THE POINT OF THE NAME. HERE IS THE POINT, YOU ARE SINGLING PEOPLE OUT, AND YOU ARE BEING RACIST. I'M SORRY BUT IT'S THE PURE TRUTH. DEFINITION OF RACIST "TO BE PREJUDICE TO ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE BASED ON ETHNICITY, RELIGION, SEX, DISABILITY." AND PREJUDICE "TO BE MEAN, HURTFUL OR RESTRICTING THE RIGHTS OF, OR ANYTHING ELSE DEGRADING TO SOMEONE BASED ON A STEREOTYPED OPINION OF THEIR GROUP THAT THEY FIT INTO." THEREFORE YOU ARE RESTRICTING THEIR RIGHT TO CALL THEIR PARTNERSHIP "MARRIAGE". THIS IS RACISM.

It makes me really sad that you are not allowed to protest injustices in your country. Maybe instead of hating on the gays because for some reason they are allowed to, maybe try and get involved in politics to change that. If your government doesnt work for the people you have a responsibility to change it.

This is true and I completely agree with you here. We must take the example of Gandhi and Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu. The way forward is not through violence because being violent rarely does anything except make them more violent back. Instead you must peacefully protest. You must walk through your capital city and ignore their requests for you to disperse. Just have your banners. Camp out there, make your point heard and do not leave until you get what you came for.

 

[DeletedUser]

I do not consider myself a liberal at all actually, I consider myself centrist to the extreme, going left or right on certain issues such as this. Intolerance and hate? As far as I know, I've asked you to show facts to support your opinions (Of which you still have given none by the way).

You are asking me for facts on the subject that depends solely on opinions. And no, occasional video or other people opinions doesn't count as fact. Intolerance and hate in terms of bashing on people that have different opinions than yours, I might be wrong, or you may be wrong, certainly not a reason to call someone uneducated or unfit to have a debate.

Everyone judges, it's a part of human nature whether you like it or not. I feel no need to hate of people because of these judgements I make of them, I don't hate anyone really. I may dhate their ideals, but I do not hate them as people.

Don't hate them, but hate everything those people are about? Thats just sugarcoating it. If you hate everything man is, you hate the man, simple as that.

Correct we all judge whether we want to or not, try to or not, its impossible sometimes not to judge according to our make-up culture and experience. Im neither Pro nor Anti Gay. I'm non plussed either way regarding this topic, I simply don't care what someones sexual preference is and if im honest I don't understand why anyone else would be bothered either. I don't see it as a threat or undermining anything and as its only going to affect people one to one who choose to be a part of it and its never going to affect me personally either.

I can understand that attitude toward gay community, in different circumstances i would probably think the same, but in present situation i have no choice but to hold my ground on that subject. Regarding threat or undermining me, i just see them as people that mess up society priorities in my country that is badly messed up as it is. Selfishly leaving people in need of help second to their needs, selfishness is not a good recipe for social acceptance.

London is a city of extremes, very diverse and as a result will also have reactions. It is a place where as a local in large parts of London I am the minority and also feel that way. but hey ho no biggie Ive spent a good portion of my life as a minority one way or the other and you get used to it, develop a thicker skin than most and just get on with it.

Yes it is, wonderful city, melting pot of hundreds of cultures, everyone is minority there, didn't bother me, all 31 years of my life, i am a minority English people probably have it worse than anyone when it comes to numbers. All in all its a great city, although I never understood people that manage to live there 10+ years there and refuse to learn the language, thats just rude.

1. Yes i see them as equals humanely, not necessarily socially in contributions for what gets taken out or patriotically, if we had a national service here you can bet 2/3 of the non British born would leave ASAP

2 Very Close friends I have a core of about a dozen of which about half are second generation British ... good friends I have from all different cultural backgrounds and sexual pref etc casual even more so. I am at ease ive found with nearly all groups, probably due to my moving around the world for about a decade or so.

3. LOL I ran a building employment agency and used to import skilled migrant workers ( welders ) before there was an open European policy so no problem there, I will say that in the past ten years the influx has ruined the payscale on building sites here in the UK for all concerned both indigenous and otherwise and I got out of the business when i saw what was coming a long time ago.

1. True, but than again Vic most of those people have seen and learned what does it mean to serve the country in patriotic way, hell i wouldn't serve army for my own country anymore (and 10 years ago i would gladly give my life for it, i get smarter with age )

2. Expected something different here, i am pretty surprised with this answer. In my experience British people of higher social status tend to mix with other of their kind. Limited experience, sample of about 10-15 people.

3. wow, wrong choice of question in that case, as for payscale, i agree, felt it on my own skin. Damn polish coming here taking our jobs
Joke aside UK did that to herself when allowing free influx of workers from a country that has 50 million people.

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT! ARE YOU SAYING THAT ONLY CHRISTIANS (OR MAYBE ONLY CATHOLICS) SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO "MARRY"? WHAT IS THE POINT OF THE NAME. HERE IS THE POINT, YOU ARE SINGLING PEOPLE OUT, AND YOU ARE BEING RACIST. I'M SORRY BUT IT'S THE PURE TRUTH. DEFINITION OF RACIST "TO BE PREJUDICE TO ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE BASED ON ETHNICITY, RELIGION, SEX, DISABILITY." AND PREJUDICE "TO BE MEAN, HURTFUL OR RESTRICTING THE RIGHTS OF, OR ANYTHING ELSE DEGRADING TO SOMEONE BASED ON A STEREOTYPED OPINION OF THEIR GROUP THAT THEY FIT INTO." THEREFORE YOU ARE RESTRICTING THEIR RIGHT TO CALL THEIR PARTNERSHIP "MARRIAGE". THIS IS RACISM.

Stop yelling. And this just goes to confirm one sentence from my first post.

everything is insult, everything is hate speech, in fact if you state your own opinion and its different from what is accepted as a proper attitude towards subject you will be branded as a primitive/homophobic/stupid.

This dismissing of other people opinions is so tiresome, and its the worst thing west has to offer. You watch a video on youtube and yell ANIMAL ABUSE!!! Hear a different opinions and yell RACISM!!!! worst of all, it works like a charm, once you brand someone with this etiquette he is out. Try thinking and debating instead using prearranged templates from your brain.
Btw by that definition about 90% of people on earth are racist.

This is true and I completely agree with you here. We must take the example of Gandhi and Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu. The way forward is not through violence because being violent rarely does anything except make them more violent back. Instead you must peacefully protest. You must walk through your capital city and ignore their requests for you to disperse. Just have your banners. Camp out there, make your point heard and do not leave until you get what you came for.

Won't work, what do you expect, someone influential will be outraged and do something about it? Saudi Arabia, Bahrain? Didn't work there. Point is simple, if some of the world great forces have interest in your area, and cannot fulfill it because your government is independent it will work (but than it will be even worse eventually). In our case, we have pro western government that enjoys full support.

 

[DeletedUser]

SORRY, HAVING SEEN THIS POST ON PAGE TWO I FELT THE REAL NEED TO REPLY TO IT.



WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT! ARE YOU SAYING THAT ONLY CHRISTIANS (OR MAYBE ONLY CATHOLICS) SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO "MARRY"? WHAT IS THE POINT OF THE NAME. HERE IS THE POINT, YOU ARE SINGLING PEOPLE OUT, AND YOU ARE BEING RACIST. I'M SORRY BUT IT'S THE PURE TRUTH. DEFINITION OF RACIST "TO BE PREJUDICE TO ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE BASED ON ETHNICITY, RELIGION, SEX, DISABILITY." AND PREJUDICE "TO BE MEAN, HURTFUL OR RESTRICTING THE RIGHTS OF, OR ANYTHING ELSE DEGRADING TO SOMEONE BASED ON A STEREOTYPED OPINION OF THEIR GROUP THAT THEY FIT INTO." THEREFORE YOU ARE RESTRICTING THEIR RIGHT TO CALL THEIR PARTNERSHIP "MARRIAGE". THIS IS RACISM.

There are more religions than just Christianity and Catholicism. And traditionaly marriage has been a religions institution, seeing as the bond between two people for a lifetime should have someone of importance to join them together. Nowadays it's a bit less than that but traditionaly in the past it was more of a religious thing.

 

[DeletedUser31931]

Exactly, my point, IN THE OLD DAYS it was religious. In the old days there was feudalism, come forward slaver and even further forward racism in the streets. I'm not saying that we are perfect now because we aren't. but the old times are at an end, you need to move on before it's too late. Marriage is still important to everyone but it's not as much religious as it is seen as a legal bondage. That said marriage isn't too important. My parents aren't married, they never saw the need to get married. That hasn't influenced my view on marriage greatly (notice the use of the word greatly, this is because everything in life changes even if just slightly, usually it just makes you more accustomed to the idea) and so why shouldn't it be the same with gay parents.

 

[DeletedUser]

You are asking me for facts on the subject that depends solely on opinions. And no, occasional video or other people opinions doesn't count as fact. Intolerance and hate in terms of bashing on people that have different opinions than yours, I might be wrong, or you may be wrong, certainly not a reason to call someone uneducated or unfit to have a debate.

No, I'm asking for facts on your assertion that "Gay parents = Gay children". I've done my own research while you were using your "common sense", or should I say biased assumption, and it seems like children raised by gay parents lead generally normal lives. You're making a wild assumption at something that you obviously know absolutely nothing about, therefore you are unfit to participate in this debate.

Don't hate them, but hate everything those people are about? Thats just sugarcoating it. If you hate everything man is, you hate the man, simple as that.

I don't agree with communism. Do I hate everyone that is a communist? No, of course not.

SORRY, HAVING SEEN THIS POST ON PAGE TWO I FELT THE REAL NEED TO REPLY TO IT.



WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT! ARE YOU SAYING THAT ONLY CHRISTIANS (OR MAYBE ONLY CATHOLICS) SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO "MARRY"? WHAT IS THE POINT OF THE NAME. HERE IS THE POINT, YOU ARE SINGLING PEOPLE OUT, AND YOU ARE BEING RACIST. I'M SORRY BUT IT'S THE PURE TRUTH. DEFINITION OF RACIST "TO BE PREJUDICE TO ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE BASED ON ETHNICITY, RELIGION, SEX, DISABILITY." AND PREJUDICE "TO BE MEAN, HURTFUL OR RESTRICTING THE RIGHTS OF, OR ANYTHING ELSE DEGRADING TO SOMEONE BASED ON A STEREOTYPED OPINION OF THEIR GROUP THAT THEY FIT INTO." THEREFORE YOU ARE RESTRICTING THEIR RIGHT TO CALL THEIR PARTNERSHIP "MARRIAGE". THIS IS RACISM.

1) Please calm down.

2) Look, we're not fighting for gays to be married in a church. If a religion is "anti-gay", as wrong as that may be, the government has no right to force them to allow gays to marry in their church. We are fighting for equal treatment from our government, not the churches. Really, I don't care if a church refuses to marry gays. However, I believe that gays deserve the right to be recognized as "married" by the state.

 

[DeletedUser31931]

That is true, and when I talk of marriage I say it as the term. Believe me, I don't go to church, in fact the only time I went to church was for a friends wedding. I'm atheist and the last thing I want is to get married in a church yet if I were gay, and my partner and I wanted to legally be married then I would want it to be accepted as marriage, not just some fancy term which singles us out as gays and makes us a spectacle for the rest of the community to gawk at.

 

[DeletedUser]

Exactly, my point, IN THE OLD DAYS it was religious. In the old days there was feudalism, come forward slaver and even further forward racism in the streets. I'm not saying that we are perfect now because we aren't. but the old times are at an end, you need to move on before it's too late. Marriage is still important to everyone but it's not as much religious as it is seen as a legal bondage. That said marriage isn't too important. My parents aren't married, they never saw the need to get married. That hasn't influenced my view on marriage greatly (notice the use of the word greatly, this is because everything in life changes even if just slightly, usually it just makes you more accustomed to the idea) and so why shouldn't it be the same with gay parents.

So if i get this straight feudalism, slavery and right for gays to marry on other side are equal? Bit of a stretch don't you think?
You would do good to yourself not to dismiss all of the tradition as bad or obsolete.

No, I'm asking for facts on your assertion that "Gay parents = Gay children". I've done my own research while you were using your "common sense", or should I say biased assumption, and it seems like children raised by gay parents lead generally normal lives. You're making a wild assumption at something that you obviously know absolutely nothing about, therefore you are unfit to participate in this debate.

No, you googled a few things and you're trying to get me into a link fight. I am not interested in that kind of debate.
Lets say for arguments sake that you're right and that i am debating based on my own biased assumptions, only difference between you and me is that you are using someone elses biased assumptions thus exposing yourself as incompetent to be involved in any kind of discussion that require use of your own brain.

I don't agree with communism. Do I hate everyone that is a communist? No, of course not.

Big difference between disagreeing with something and hating it. Do you hate communism? If so why? Exactly what experiences did you have with it?

 

[DeletedUser]

No, you googled a few things and you're trying to get me into a link fight. I am not interested in that kind of debate.
Lets say for arguments sake that you're right and that i am debating based on my own biased assumptions, only difference between you and me is that you are using someone elses biased assumptions thus exposing yourself as incompetent to be involved in any kind of discussion that require use of your own brain.

I used research provided by a few websites you took a random guess based on your own opinions. The truth is, no one cares what you think you need research and evidence to support your debate.

Big difference between disagreeing with something and hating it. Do you hate communism? If so why? Exactly what experiences did you have with it?

I do hate communism. Communism is just a small step lower than slavery in my opinion. What experiences do I have with it? You don't have to be shot in the foot to know that it will hurt.

 

[DeletedUser]

I used research provided by a few websites you took a random guess based on your own opinions. The truth is, no one cares what you think you need research and evidence to support your debate.

I expressed my opinion based on my experience, try that sometime. You on the other side, keep posting links from sites that heavily supports your side of story and cannot be called neutral. I want to hear your PERSONAL view on things and to hear the explanation why is that.

I do hate communism. Communism is just a small step lower than slavery in my opinion. What experiences do I have with it? You don't have to be shot in the foot to know that it will hurt.

So you were told to feel that way? You hate something with passion, yet you never had any experiences with it? Do you feel that system you are living in is honest?

Thats the difference between you and me. I want to experience things, or at least listen to arguments from both sides before making such a harsh judgement.

 

[DeletedUser]

No, I'm asking for facts on your assertion that "Gay parents = Gay children".

this is all im going to say on this thread so don't bother replying to it because im not going to respond.
I remember a few years back there was a man named Richard Hatch who went on Dr. Phil about his son (adopted) who stared having "gay" tendencies. Richard went onto the show wondering why his son was acting this way and how to get him to stop. Dr Phil told him up front that it was his fault in the way he was acting. if people know of Richard Hatch he is also gay. now im not saying all Gay parents =Gay children but it does make you wonder how many more kids this has happened to.

here is the full story there are 7 pages of it http://www.drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/2115/?id=2115&slide=0&showID=404&preview=&versionID=

I know what people are going to say but there is a connection between pedophiles and gays.

 

[DeletedUser]

I expressed my opinion based on my experience, try that sometime. You on the other side, keep posting links from sites that heavily supports your side of story and cannot be called neutral. I want to hear your PERSONAL view on things and to hear the explanation why is that.

I happen to know numerous people with gay parents. I did not even notice or find them any different than any of my other peers until either they told me personally or someone else told me.

So you were told to feel that way? You hate something with passion, yet you never had any experiences with it? Do you feel that system you are living in is honest?

What do you want me to do, move to China? I know what it's like there, and it is not very pretty.

Thats the difference between you and me. I want to experience things, or at least listen to arguments from both sides before making such a harsh judgement.

You were obviously not raised by gay parents, therefore you cannot make assumptions based off of "experience".

 

[DeletedUser]

I happen to know numerous people with gay parents. I did not even notice or find them any different than any of my other peers until either they told me personally or someone else told me.

Now this is a progress. Although it strikes me as odd. You have at least 20 years or more, 20 years ago gays couldn't adopt kids (if i'm mistaking i'm sorry) so how come that you know numerous kids raised by gay couples?

What do you want me to do, move to China? I know what it's like there, and it is not very pretty.

Former Yugoslavia was great, though, granted it was some mixture of capitalism and communism. All in all socialist country in which everyone had a nice life, free education and healthcare.
Have you tried reading?
And i didn't got an answer, do you find that system you're living in is fair?

You were obviously not raised by gay parents, therefore you cannot make assumptions based off of "experience".

or at least listen to both sides
Listened to both sides, had some experience with kids that were lacking one parent while growing up - conclusion made.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

I know what people are going to say but there is a connection between paedophiles and gays.

The only connection is that paedophiles gay or straight are human ( barely ) the same as their victims.... other than that its a stupid ignorant statement typical of what used to be known as demonising a particular group by trying to disgust mainstream society.

And btw Paedophilia is much more prevalent in Heterosexual men by far and yes I have figures to back it up, the sex trade is rife and 90% of its young victims are female. Think about that before you speak cheap trash.

 

[DeletedUser]

The only connection is that paedophiles gay or straight are human ( barely ) the same as their victims.... other than that its a stupid ignorant statement typical of what used to be known as demonising a particular group by trying to disgust normal society.

And btw Paedophilia is much more prevalent in Heterosexuals by far and yes I have figures to back it up, the sex trade is rife and 90% of victims are female. Think about that before you speak that trash.

in this case a man wants to have sex with a boy/man. don't gay men want to have sex with another man? how is that different? isn't the whole point of the gay "rights" movement to let a person have sex with whoever they want?

 

[DeletedUser]

Now this is a progress. Although it strikes me as odd. You have at least 20 years or more, 20 years ago gays couldn't adopt kids (if i'm mistaking i'm sorry) so how come that you know numerous kids raised by gay couples?

You've overestimated my age (chuckle). I know quite a few people

Former Yugoslavia was great, though, granted it was some mixture of capitalism and communism. All in all socialist country in which everyone had a nice life, free education and healthcare.
Have you tried reading?
And i didn't got an answer, do you find that system you're living in is fair?

I have yet to see communism work. Socialism is another story altogether. Although I support capitalism, I don't particularly mind socialism. As for the system I'm living in being fair, I believe it is pretty fine. Of course, it can always be better. Less corrupt politicians, less tax breaks for the rich, etc. Although this is another discussion entirely.

or at least listen to both sides

Listened to both sides, had some experience with kids that were lacking one parent while growing up - conclusion made.

Lacking one parent while growing up is entirely different from having two gay parents, I don't think you can possibly base your decision on that. Although I see what you mean, I think you should meet a few people raised by gay parents to see if the effects are similar.

-----

in this case a man wants to have sex with a boy/man. don't gay men want to have sex with another man? how is that different? isn't the whole point of the gay "rights" movement to let a person have sex with whoever they want?

No, not at all. The gay rights movement is similar to the civil rights movement, they just wish for equal treatment and acceptance from our government.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

Why would gay men wish to have sex with a boy anymore than a hetrosexual man would wish to have sex with a girl ?

Give me proof instead of sweeping statements that are unfounded.

Stupid to even go down this road. There is a huge difference between child sex and adult sex and it really is ignorant to suggest one group is any more interested in under age sex than another, which is what you are inferring.

 

[DeletedUser]

You've overestimated my age (chuckle). I know quite a few people

Ok, can you give me some rough numbers regarding your age so i could make a little research about previous claim?

I have yet to see communism work well as of yet. Socialism is another story altogether. Although I support capitalism, I don't particularly mind socialism. As for the system I'm living in being fair, I believe it is pretty fine. Of course, it can always be better. Less corrupt politicians, less tax breaks for the rich, etc. Although this is another discussion entirely.

Well communistic party was only party in Yugoslavia since the end of WW2 till 80s or 90s.

Lacking one parent while growing up is entirely different from having two gay parents, I don't think you can possibly base your decision on that. Although I see what you mean, I think you should meet a few people raised by gay parents to see if the effects are similar.

I should but i am not in position to do that. Anyway damage that is done to a kid without role model of both sexes is enormous, in that i am certain.

No, not at all. The gay rights movement is similar to the civil rights movement, they just wish for equal treatment and acceptance from our government.

Well i don't see their rights are threatened in any way in the US. All of the activity LGBT movement is doing is turning their question into a dogma that would be sacrilegious to question.-----------oops this was not aimed at me, but let it stay here. So much for drinking and commenting.

 

[DeletedUser]

No, not at all. The gay rights movement is similar to the civil rights movement, they just wish for equal treatment and acceptance from our government.

similar maybe but aren't all "movements" similar to the civil rights movement. you can have sex with whoever you want just keep it in the bedroom and off my law book.
the NAMBLA is also a civil rights movement does that mean I agree with them? no.

Why would gay men wish to have sex with a boy anymore than a hetrosexual man would wish to have sex with a girl ?

you have to ask yourself why would anyone wish to have sex with anyone underage. now if you look at the many different cultures you would see that an Adult can be any age. the Jewish cultures sees anyone over 13 as an adult so if this 14 year old was Jewish he would be a consenting adult. who gives the right to who is a "consenting adult"? "if two consenting Adults love each other they should be aloud to be together" isn't the slogan that is constantly used? now you really can't deny that a man that has/wants to have sex with another man (no matter the age) is gay.
even the boy said we has fine with it.

http://www.drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/2115/?id=2115&slide=4&showID=404&preview=&versionID=

"Do you feel like you were in danger when that took place?" Dr. Phil asks.

"No," Chris says.

"Why not?" Dr. Phil pries.

"Because I felt comfortable," Chris says. "If I felt like I was in danger, then I don't think I would have felt comfortable. So I went with my instincts."

 

[DeletedUser]

Big difference between disagreeing with something and hating it. Do you hate communism? If so why? Exactly what experiences did you have with it?

I hate Communism.
I hate AIDS.
I hate pedophilia.

I've had no personal experience with any of them.

 

[DeletedUser]

I hate Communism.
I hate AIDS.
I hate pedophilia.

I've had no personal experience with any of them.

AIDS is a disease, pedophilia is state that should qualify anyone who is practicing it for a nice imaginative medieval torture. Communism i don't see in this list. Its an ideology which is not criminal in its core, what is criminal is how it was applied by idiots. And again i am putting here an example of old yugoslavia which had communist party in charge and yet it was country to wish for.