What is your opinion on "abortion" ??

[DeletedUser22575]

Please try and provide thoughtful responses explaining your view, not "just because rants".

Thanks.

TJ

1. Should abortion be illegal.

2. Dr George Tiller was shot and killed while attending church by anti abortionist radical Scott Roeder. Scott Roeder tried to argue the defense of justified murder because "preborn children's lives were in imminent danger". The judge refused to allow this argument and Scott Roeder was convicted of murder and sentenced to life in prison.

Should the argument of "preborn children's lives were in imminent danger" have been allowed?

What should happen to those who kill Doctors who perform abortions? Should they be treated any differently than anyone else who kills someone?

3. The United States Constitution guarantees "freedom of religion". Many constitutional scholars believe this means not only the right to choose your own religion, but to be free from others imposing their religious belief on you.

Should those who insist that "abortion is murder" based on religious belief be allowed to attempt to force that belief on others, or should that in itself be illegal?

 

[DeletedUser]

I can't, for the life of me, really understand how elective abortion (that is, abortion that is NOT to save the mother's life) is not considered to be a twisting of all that medical science stands for.

Don't get me wrong, I find it a necessary evil, and I disagree with it, much as I disagree with many things that I feel are immoral, yet not illegal, however I just can't help but think that abortion is not what medical science really was created for.

I'm also for the absolute unfettered access to birth control for any female of childbearing age.

 

[DeletedUser]

I can't, for the life of me, really understand how elective abortion (that is, abortion that is NOT to save the mother's life) is not considered to be a twisting of all that medical science stands for.

Don't get me wrong, I find it a necessary evil, and I disagree with it, much as I disagree with many things that I feel are immoral, yet not illegal, however I just can't help but think that abortion is not what medical science really was created for.

I'm also for the absolute unfettered access to birth control for any female of childbearing age.

i couldnt agree more free access to birth conrol even long term versions like vasectomies , and MAJOR restrictions on abortion

 

[DeletedUser]

Should those who insist that "abortion is murder" based on religious belief be allowed to attempt to force that belief on others, or should that in itself be illegal?

The problem here is thinking that religion has the ability to determine biological factors, when it clearly doesn't even bother and is just posed as an excuse by particular people who interpret the Bible to serve their niche' mentality, their personal stances.

The error in viewing this whole thing is thinking it's a tug of war between right to life and women's right to choose what they do to their body. The real issue, the real debate, should be (and for all intensive purposes, actually is) about the available scientific evidence (the data).

The fetus is 100% dependent upon the host. It cannot be cared for once it is extricated from the uterus. No amount of education will ensure the fetus can fend for itself. It is effectively a parasite that is oftentimes perceived by the host body as a foreign object, which results in health issues or death for the fetus and/or the host.

Nobody likes to think they were once bloodsucking leeches, but hey... eventually they grow up to be bloodsucking teenagers, suckling off the nipples of their parents' paychecks to obtain their free education, Ipod, cellphone and BMW, and posting their obtuse conclusions on the net as if somehow their meager education provides deeper insight and greater comprehension than those who invested decades into earnestly researching the various issues being routinely debated on pedestals of stubborn ignorance in these, and other, forums on the internet.

Another major problem with these debates is a failure to look at consequence, in that women seeking abortions will still obtain them, either illegally or elsewhere and via dangerous conditions. Numbers show the death/injury rate of illegally obtained abortions is immense. Making abortion illegal significantly increases the mortality rate.

That's the big problem with this type of debate. It's a mass of emotional appeals, almost totally lacking in concrete evidence and not once touching upon consequence, the legal cases, nor the scientific research that have set precedence on these issues.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm not going to bother with the first one since I'm sure plenty of people will give opinions on that one.

2. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be treated the same as any other murderer. As long as abortion is legal, there's no way that murdering someone for performing one should be seen as an exception to the law. Even if abortion were illegal, it isn't any citizen's right to be judge, jury and executioner; that's what the court system is for.

3. I don't believe it should be illegal to try to push your beliefs on others, as long as you aren't the government (although it can be extremely irritating). I think it really depends on how far you go with trying to force your beliefs on them. I think anti-abortion people should be allowed to lobby for changes in the law, televise shows that push their views, give speeches on the subject, etc.; however, I also believe that their right to push their agenda ends when it harms others, damages property, harasses people, interferes with the ability to conduct legal business or breaks the law.

 

[DeletedUser25529]

What about rape victims who become pregnant because of the said rape? should they not be allowed to get rid of the foetus?

Too many of the doogooders who cry murder about abortion, do it simply because of their religious beliefs, which has no right, and nothing to do with the requirements of abortion.


Get over it you holier than thou fanatics.

 

[DeletedUser]

Orphanges? Aren't those still around? If ya don't want the kid there orphanages out there.

 

[DeletedUser]

What about rape victims who become pregnant because of the said rape? should they not be allowed to get rid of the foetus?

Too many of the doogooders who cry murder about abortion, do it simply because of their religious beliefs, which has no right, and nothing to do with the requirements of abortion.

Those too often seem to be the same ones in favor of the death penalty.

At least the Catholic Church is consistent: Life is sacred, no abortion, no death penalty. The Protestant denominations tend to differ in that regard.

 

[DeletedUser]

theres sooo much to respond to here wow


ok just a few key points

1
theres a lot of people like myself that reject the label pro life ( which was accualy started by the liberal media) im ANTI- Abortion so yes there is NO hipocracy in my support of the death penalty

and the other differnce is that a criminal subject tot he death penalty is someone that commited a crime and is being punished acording to the law (which the bible says christians should follow the law of the land)
an aborted child has commited no crime and is a true innocent

2
like most anti abortion people a large majority of us understand that its a nessisary evil in the cases of rape and incest and when the mothers life is at risk

3
as long as its legal its not murder no matter how people may personaly feel on it

4
as for as religous determination jsut because religous people support the view that its life at conception doesnt mean its a religous beleif its simply a personaly view that is based on a differnt interpritation of fact influenced by there moral values

5 @ hellstromm
based on your discription of a fetus as a parasite does this mean that you are opposed to thrid term abortions and partial birth abortions ?

 

[DeletedUser21656]

The problem here is thinking that religion has the ability to determine biological factors, when it clearly doesn't even bother and is just posed as an excuse by particular people who interpret the Bible to serve their niche' mentality, their personal stances....

...Nobody likes to think they were once bloodsucking leeches, but hey... eventually they grow up to be bloodsucking teenagers, suckling off the nipples of their parents' paychecks to obtain their free education, Ipod, cellphone and BMW, and posting their obtuse conclusions on the net as if somehow their meager education provides deeper insight and greater comprehension than those who invested decades into earnestly researching the various issues being routinely debated on pedestals of stubborn ignorance in these, and other, forums on the internet.

... It's a mass of emotional appeals, almost totally lacking in concrete evidence and not once touching upon consequence, the legal cases, nor the scientific research that have set precedence on these issues.

Lol, wat that suppose to mean?? Support or not support?

Argh, nvm him. I'm ok with abortion for situation like health issue, rapist issue. But very-anti-abortion for situations like "mistake" issues. If you can't take the responsibility, don't do it.

 

[DeletedUser]

heres the real money wrench


IF a woman decides to abort a baby its not murder

however IF a murderer KILLS a pregnant woman he gets charged with 2 MURDERS


soooo which is it cause you cant ahve it both ways

 

[DeletedUser]

heres the real money wrench


IF a woman decides to abort a baby its not murder

however IF a murderer KILLS a pregnant woman he gets charged with 2 MURDERS


soooo which is it cause you cant ahve it both ways

it sound pretty contradictory man, ... how come abortion isn't a murder if committed by the woman, but it is a crime when committed by someone else using other ways*example killing*...? Either you say abortion is a crime or abortion isn't a crime; any way you look at it, abortion=crime

 

[DeletedUser]

The laws pertaining to this revolve around intent and stage of fetal development. In all the cases I reviewed, of instances in which a person is charged and convicted of 2 murders for killing a pregnant woman, the unborn child is at the latest stages of development. As such, even an abortion is illegal unless the act is performed by a qualified physician and it is performed to save the woman and/or the child's life.

See, that's part of the problem with all these "emotional appeal" arguments --- not providing all the information, and thus allowing people's imaginations to run wild.

"omg, omg, contradictions!" followed by, "oh, nevermind."

 

[Diggo11]

as long as its legal its not murder no matter how people may personaly feel on it

I don't read debates much, but hey here's a nice place to put my two cents. Firstly, this is not a question about the law defining murder, we know murder for the purposes of the law is the taking of a human life. The real questions imho are:
- When has a child's human life began?
- If prior to birth, when is it justified to take an infant life?
- If at birth, when is it still immoral to take a life before it has even began?

The answer to the first question is basically science based. When has life began? At contraception you are living human cells. (You may not be independent, but neither is a newly born child, yet they are still "alive".) But when do you become fully human? My personal thoughts are when you begin to develop a human brain - the organ that makes us far superior to all other animal species, but I'm sure there are many ways to classify this differently.

The next two questions I will not even address for two reasons. One I am not qualified, it's all very different looking in from a distance than actually being involved. Two no blanket rule can ever cover this, and it would be unrealistic to ever think you could. Every abortion, or choice not to abort, is made under unique circumstances that cannot all be covered with a one size fits all post.

 

[DeletedUser21656]

See, that's part of the problem with all these "emotional appeal" arguments --- not providing all the information, and thus allowing people's imaginations to run wild.

"omg, omg, contradictions!" followed by, "oh, nevermind."

Btw, for those who confuse what the heck Hells is talking about, I suppose he forgot to quote my opinion on this issue:

Argh, nvm him. I'm ok with abortion for situation like health issue, rapist issue. But very-anti-abortion for situations like "mistake" issues. If you can't take the responsibility, don't do it.

Looks like Hells is not prepare yet to accept the fine thin line in the between of the pro and anti. There's always a 50-50 situation in real life you know.

And come on, the title ask for our opinion on this issue, emotional... what? appeal? It not court case you know?!

 

[DeletedUser22575]

My opinion on this is pretty simple.

As long as abortion is legal it is no one else's business, no matter the reason it is done for.

No one should based on their religious belief or code of ethics have the right to determine what is best for another person. Just because yours belief disagrees with theirs does not mean you are any more right..or wrong than they are.

Quite simple, their body, their choice and decision to make.

I will go a step further. With the new Health Plan I disagree with the restrictions on abortions contained within it.

Again, abortion is a legal medical option and it is the individuals right to exercise it if they so choose to do so.

They fact that it is taxpayer funded and you might disagree with it is meaningless IMO. The government does not ask for your approval or permission to spend your tax dollars for any other legal services or to fight wars with.

Tax dollar spending for abortion should fall in the same category.

 

[DeletedUser]

Btw, for those who confuse what the heck Hells is talking about, I suppose he forgot to quote my opinion on this issue:

Looks like Hells is not prepare yet to accept the fine thin line in the between of the pro and anti. There's always a 50-50 situation in real life you know.

And come on, the title ask for our opinion on this issue, emotional... what? appeal? It not court case you know?!

Don't flatter yourself, I wasn't providing a rebuttal to what you wrote.

However, since you seem to want a rebuttal, your comment tries to make pregnancy the "fault" or "cause" of the woman, when it is in fact the actions of a woman and a man, and it just so happens the woman does not have the luxury of walking away like the man does. So, in short, since "men" are not obligated to birth or rear the child, they should stay out of it, particularly when men sometimes date-rape but are not prosecuted.

It is not the man's life that is endangered, it is not the man's body that can be disfigured, it is not the man who will be there to rear the child. The man makes a choice to abandon the pregnant woman and then thinks to dictate what other women are, or are not, obligated to do. Until the day comes that men take responsibility for their sperm, by keeping it in check or by castration, this discussion is totally inappropriate.

Men, want to push this argument? Then take responsibility by abstinence (yeah, that's not gonna happen). Want to push it further? We can argue that men are performing murder every time sperm dies.

Seriously, what a bunch of hypocrites.

 

[DeletedUser]

heres the real money wrench


IF a woman decides to abort a baby its not murder

however IF a murderer KILLS a pregnant woman he gets charged with 2 MURDERS


soooo which is it cause you cant ahve it both ways

Given that this law is supported by "Anti-Abortionists," and not non-anti-abortionists, I'd say that you're creating a straw man argument, assigning blame where none exists.

 

[DeletedUser]

Given that this law is supported by "Anti-Abortionists," and not non-anti-abortionists, I'd say that you're creating a straw man argument, assigning blame where none exists.

first and foremost i didnt assign blame anywhere only pointed out a legal hiporcasy and i think you REALY need to get off wikipedia and learn what an accual straw man is before you jsut throw out a silly term like strawman withouth understanding it






@ hell 3rd term and partial birht abortions are legal in MANY states and obama himself refused to ban them and no there not jstu to save a mothers life in the states there legal in

@ tj its everyones buisness as WE are the ones who decide whats legal and illegal

WE the people make the laws therefore everyones voice counts

and as for the governmetn paying for it with our tax dollars you couldnt be more wrong

no one should be forced to pay for someone elses abortion when they consider it murder


would u want to be forced to pay for the murder of say your neighbor because your other nieghbor found them inconveinent ? the entire idea is absurd






in closing partial birth abortions need to be outlawed no matter what as theres NO medical reason for them at this point

thrid term abortions should be HIGHLY restricted in the same way


as for the others thats for individual states to decide

 

[DeletedUser22575]

first and foremost i didnt assign blame anywhere only pointed out a legal hiporcasy and i think you REALY need to get off wikipedia and learn what an accual straw man is before you jsut throw out a silly term like strawman withouth understanding it






@ hell 3rd term and partial birht abortions are legal in MANY states and obama himself refused to ban them and no there not jstu to save a mothers life in the states there legal in

@ tj its everyones buisness as WE are the ones who decide whats legal and illegal

WE the people make the laws therefore everyones voice counts

and as for the governmetn paying for it with our tax dollars you couldnt be more wrong

no one should be forced to pay for someone elses abortion when they consider it murder


would u want to be forced to pay for the murder of say your neighbor because your other nieghbor found them inconveinent ? the entire idea is absurd






in closing partial birth abortions need to be outlawed no matter what as theres NO medical reason for them at this point

thrid term abortions should be HIGHLY restricted in the same way


as for the others thats for individual states to decide

First off "We the people" went out of business quite some time back. Your Congressman and Senator act as your elected representative to pass laws and TBH about it they could really care less what you or I think in most cases...unless ofc it happens to be an election year and you have your checkbook with you and are ready to write them a sizable check.

The rest of the time they are more concerned with political expediency and maintaining their position.

As far as the government paying for abortions with tax dollars if your going to try and debate it, then compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges.

An abortion is a legal medical procedure.

This is an illegal act... "would u want to be forced to pay for the murder of say your neighbor because your other nieghbor found them inconveinent ? the entire idea is absurd"

They don't compare.