DeletedUser
This has nothing to do w/ being right or wrong.
I was just pointing out that EVERYONE does not imply what you think EVERYONE means.
I was just pointing out that EVERYONE does not imply what you think EVERYONE means.
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DeletedUser
Religion is just a fail safe, except you have to follow codes. Nobody knows whats gonna happen when you die. So religions made all these little things to feel safe, and then some guy came along and said,"Thou shall not murder, ect. ect. ect." I have no problem with religion, hell my best friend on the planet is a Christian. But when you take it to extremes, preach about it, and rub it in people's faces, I will not appreciate religion.
DeletedUser
Simply put, you can't enforce a supposedly "pacifist" religion by such aggressive means (yelling at people in a cramped space).
DeletedUser
I agree,but think about this.Wars have been fought in The Middle East for centuries over religion,and if i'm not mistaken,and by no means am I attempting to insult anyone but,isn't the fighting in Ireland over religion.Would that not be considered enforcing by violence?
Idon't know,just a thought.
DeletedUser
Yeah, but I don't support those wars either. And as for the Troubles (and the rest of the conflicts) are more about getting the British out of (or keeping them in) Ireland. True, one of the causes is the Catholic/Protestant issues.
But to be honest, I don't care if Protestants live in Ireland. As long as the whole island is part of the republic, and not the UK, that's all I want.
But the Crusades - and any religious war between supposedly pacifist religions - all part of the same contradiction.
But to be honest, I don't care if Protestants live in Ireland. As long as the whole island is part of the republic, and not the UK, that's all I want.
But the Crusades - and any religious war between supposedly pacifist religions - all part of the same contradiction.
DeletedUser
"For reconciling antipathies, overcoming prejudicies, and composing diffrences, a blunt directness of adress is not so successful as it is customary.Its true that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, but courtesy would humbly advise us sometimes to unite them by a graceful curve"
-George Winfred
Yellin at someone and telling them they're gonna burn aint the most graceful curve.
DeletedUser19846
Ok, I've been reading alot of the posts here, and I must apologize, there's alot of false teaching going on out there, and it seems like when someone gets saved they loose all common sense, I love evangelism, and I truly believe that, it should be the number one goal for a Christian to spread the Love of Christ, Heck God became man, to atone (pay) for my sins. Now thats love, but yelling at people in the subway, wearing signs, acting weird is just plain weird, and in no way does it show the love of Christ, it's like these people are just doing there duty like it's some heavenly check list, I truly believe that it's not the word of God that turns people off, or the Message of Christ that turns people off, it's other Christians who don't live by the number one rule (love the lord God with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as your self) it's Christians like this that turn people off, plain and simple you can try to give me your most valuable gift, the gift you treasure the most, but if your attitude is off when you present it, or you yell at me when you present it, or you act better than me when you try to give it to me, then I don't want it. And you make "us" Christians look like idiots, so I'm sorry you had this experience heck, I like walking up to them and telling them to leave that there doing more harm than good, but they rebuke me, and tell me that I'm the ignorant one, I just pray for them, and hope that someday they read the bible and put it's teachings into practice....Now
NOW.. for the above quote, Peter wasn't a Catholic, not at all he was Jewish, he was a Hebrew disciple of Jesus. Plain and simple, Peter ate kosher, and attended all the Jewish festivals and was circumcised on the 8th day, The catholic church teaches alot of stuff that's not biblical at all.
Now for Betty, I didn't quote her, but what she's referencing is a popular very un-biblical teaching called Later Rain theology it teaches that everyone must be saved for Jesus to come back.. very un-biblical, It's a very popular teaching in the evangelical circles, I guess they don't read the last part of Revelations, but hey, alot of people claim to be Christians but never read the book, let alone act on what there reading, or even look something up in the bible to see if it's biblical or not, now a day any idiot can speak in the name of the lord, and people blindly believe, heck have you ever turned on the religious station??
So if you have questions message me
Or come see me In World 10.. Rebal Haven..
God Bless
R-Savage
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DeletedUser
One denomination's truth is another denomination's heresy. Y'all should really pick a book that actually says something without being rife with contradictions. It would have saved a lot of bloodshed.
DeletedUser19846
Ok, I'm only talking about the Bible no other book, ::One denomination's truth is another denomination's heresy:: ya I hear you this one, but the problem is, man has been putting his "spin" and processing it through his laws, not through God's word. I'm curious as to what contradictions you speak of, I've had tons of doubts, and I've worked alot of them out, by studying, so Let me know, and the bloodshed part, heck ya, anyone who sheds blood in the Name of God, is just plain and simple off.. Every time, and I'm no pacifist in now way, I'm a boxing trainer for pro mma fighters. But I hear you it would of saved alot of bloodshed, in the modern age, now if your talking old testament age.. thats a whole other discussion that you can hit me up on anytime.. but it's explainable
DeletedUser
There have been hundreds of religions in the history of the world. The ones that survive the test of time are the ones who are vigilant about spreading their "message" by any means possible. The most successful religions right now seem to revolve around the theme of guilt and prey on the poor and the uneducated (Christianity and Islam). Doing this is how they raise money and survive, otherwise they'd be phased out when a new LOUDER, more appealing set of beliefs became fashionable.
I am from NY too. The subway is not a friendly place and those people don't exactly add to the chemistry. Near Herald Square I saw those 2 black guys who are always on public access proclaiming that Jesus was black and they had a huge gathering of people listening to them rant. I used to get harassed by the "Jews for Jesus" people near Rockefeller. I have also lived in Korea for 2 years and the Jehovahs and Mormons have a strong foothold there, constantly harassing people outside shopping centers and apartment buildings with their pamphlets. They literally sell their religion door to door. There are churches everywhere with big neon crosses on top (just in case you want to go to church in the middle of the night I guess). About 1/3 of that country is Christian, which is remarkable since they have been pretty isolated from the western world until about 1950.
My belief is that if you have to be FORCED into buying an idea, its not faith. I'll admit I don't know the different sects of Christianity so I don't know exactly what an evangelical is. My family is Roman Catholic technically and I went to a Jesuit university, but I can't even tell you what that means. :laugh:
DeletedUser14029
Christians don't FORCE others to join.
According to the Bible, what God and Jesus have said, humans always have the choice to choose between believing or not believing. To believe in something that SOUNDS like a myth already tests your faith. I agree there are hundreds of religions out there, but one thing you must note that Christianity is about God reaching out to people, not the 'standard' approach (vice versa, human reaching out to God).
the Crusades, I admit, is crazy (from my point of view. endless bloodshed on both sides
). and nobody should believe US is fighting a new Crusade at the Middle-East. look at their society, or look at the WORLD. for one thing that i constantly remind myself is how low people have gone nowadays. 15-year-old mothers are common. people marry-and-divorce like everyday business. War going on every second as we speak. USA claims to be a 'Christian' country, but now their bills read 'In Money We Trust'... Christianity has faded quite significantly in the US. (Note: This is to remind people not to do what I am about to say below, not against US in particular >.<)
I know how the people feels when someone who goes to church, particularly a Christian (whom the atheists uses as an 'example' to 'prove' Christianity is a false faith), is discovered to have severe moral problems. Then people will draw the conclusion 'Because he's a Christian and he sinned according to their faith, it is logical to draw the conclusion Christianity is a false faith'
Whether he sinned or not you cannot prove the whole faith is false. let's just say if a Chinese is caught murdering people, you can't say China is a country of murderers - or an American caught smuggling drugs, you can't say all Americans are drug dealers and thugs.
People say God is false because you can't see Him. If this follows it makes me wonder why you believed your mum when you were young that you have to wash your hands thoroughly before you eat, or else you can be sick due to bacteria on dirty hands. Did you SEE the bacteria on your hands? probably until you're Grade 12 or above you really look in to what's exactly on your hands.
To draw a conclusion to my (tedious, to some, that is) passage:
people have often asked what if a Christian led a peaceful and faithful life and didn't get to enjoy all the world has to offer, only to die and find God isn't real - here's my answer:
What if you died and find that God is real? in Hell, though, realising that it's too late?
Close your eyes, pray, reach out to God and read the Bible. Trust me, it works.
According to the Bible, what God and Jesus have said, humans always have the choice to choose between believing or not believing. To believe in something that SOUNDS like a myth already tests your faith. I agree there are hundreds of religions out there, but one thing you must note that Christianity is about God reaching out to people, not the 'standard' approach (vice versa, human reaching out to God).
the Crusades, I admit, is crazy (from my point of view. endless bloodshed on both sides
). and nobody should believe US is fighting a new Crusade at the Middle-East. look at their society, or look at the WORLD. for one thing that i constantly remind myself is how low people have gone nowadays. 15-year-old mothers are common. people marry-and-divorce like everyday business. War going on every second as we speak. USA claims to be a 'Christian' country, but now their bills read 'In Money We Trust'... Christianity has faded quite significantly in the US. (Note: This is to remind people not to do what I am about to say below, not against US in particular >.<)I know how the people feels when someone who goes to church, particularly a Christian (whom the atheists uses as an 'example' to 'prove' Christianity is a false faith), is discovered to have severe moral problems. Then people will draw the conclusion 'Because he's a Christian and he sinned according to their faith, it is logical to draw the conclusion Christianity is a false faith'
Whether he sinned or not you cannot prove the whole faith is false. let's just say if a Chinese is caught murdering people, you can't say China is a country of murderers - or an American caught smuggling drugs, you can't say all Americans are drug dealers and thugs.
People say God is false because you can't see Him. If this follows it makes me wonder why you believed your mum when you were young that you have to wash your hands thoroughly before you eat, or else you can be sick due to bacteria on dirty hands. Did you SEE the bacteria on your hands? probably until you're Grade 12 or above you really look in to what's exactly on your hands.
To draw a conclusion to my (tedious, to some, that is) passage:
people have often asked what if a Christian led a peaceful and faithful life and didn't get to enjoy all the world has to offer, only to die and find God isn't real - here's my answer:
What if you died and find that God is real? in Hell, though, realising that it's too late?
Close your eyes, pray, reach out to God and read the Bible. Trust me, it works.
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DeletedUser
This is 100% true. They have a choice to convert or be burned at the stake.
DeletedUser14029
*cough*
Are we talking about modern-age or medieval age?
and even IF you're talking about the burnings in medieval age, they (the church authorities) stayed away from the path towards God. that's all. Just like what i have written. We Christians (I am a Protestant, and I go to church preached by the Salvation Army) admit that the medieval age had been a mess, and those are Catholics, mind you (again not that i am against Catholics. they're much more sane nowadays in my opinion ^^). Let's look up more on the subject before you start criticizing something you don't even understand about.
THERE HAD BEEN NO MENTION OF BURNING UNBELIEVERS IN THE WHOLE BIBLE. What those guy did is off the book.
Are we talking about modern-age or medieval age?
and even IF you're talking about the burnings in medieval age, they (the church authorities) stayed away from the path towards God. that's all. Just like what i have written. We Christians (I am a Protestant, and I go to church preached by the Salvation Army) admit that the medieval age had been a mess, and those are Catholics, mind you (again not that i am against Catholics. they're much more sane nowadays in my opinion ^^). Let's look up more on the subject before you start criticizing something you don't even understand about.
THERE HAD BEEN NO MENTION OF BURNING UNBELIEVERS IN THE WHOLE BIBLE. What those guy did is off the book.
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DeletedUser
Obviously not modern age. I was half joking. I didn't even read your whole post when I commented to be honest.
Also I am not going to claim I know more than anyone else about religion or the history of Christianity, but please don't cite the bible as a viable reference. It will not strengthen any point you are making.
DeletedUser14029
It does - because our faith comes from the Bible, which we believe is written by various prophets and apostles guided (or some better words, I don't know >.<) by the Holy Spirit. Our actions are supposed to be following the laws written in the Bible, uttered by God, and later Jesus, then further elaborated by apostles (Jesus elaborated more of God's old laws when the Israelites forgot the true meaning)
DeletedUser
O rly?
Amazing how you can lie to yourself just as quickly as you can lie to us. Completely ignoring the Inquisitions of the past, the ostracizing of other religious beliefs, the denial of rights and privileges to non-Christians (or non-Catholics, for those who want to argue that tangent), the beatings, torture, hangings and wars against those of other beliefs (or no beliefs), you stand there and say Christians don't force others to join.
Completely ignoring all of that, completely ignoring thousands of years of history, it is STILL being forced upon us.
Through legislation, social deprivation, parent-mandated Sunday schools, even holidays, people are STILL being forced to join. But the worst is how children are being indoctrinated into these religions. Do you honestly think they have a choice at their age? No, they're force-fed this stuff, chastised by their parents, by the teachers in their respective private Christian/Catholic schools, even by their siblings. So, do you honestly believe your children have a choice? Would you give them the opportunity to choose for themselves? No, more than likely you would respond with something like, "at their age they don't know what's best for them, so I'll tell them."
Well, guess what --- that's FORCED.
It's always fun to give them fancy titles, but let's be honest... they were human beings. Men, in fact. Men in togas. Men in togas whose comprehension of the world at that time could fill a thimble in comparison to our understandings of the world and the universe today. I mean, you're talking about immensely primitive people, and yet you hold to "selected" compilations in a book which you extol as "holy" for no other reason than other Men told you it was. No evidence, nothing substantive; just stories, vague prophecies and largely incoherent paragraphs.
Oh right, but you were told it's the Truth when you were a child...
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DeletedUser14029
funny. are you telling me that my school is a 'freak' then? students in my school, even though it's a Christian school, can choose to take ethics instead of religious studies (Christianity) as a subject. both aims to equip the students with the proper social values and be a sensible person.
Furthermore, parents can choose to send their kids to schools with NO religion-background. IF they choose to send their kids to a Christian school, it is not FORCING their kids to take the Christian faith - we don't hold guns at their temple ordering them to swear to believe in Jesus Christ *Forcing implies acting against somebody's will, perhaps I am a foolish 16 years old teenager but I have not heard of a single child at the age of two already resisting going to schools of Christian background.* We introduce them to this religion, introduce them to Jesus Christ. Later as they grow up they always have the choice of turning their back on God. The choice is theirs.
clearly you didn't read what I have written. I have stated that the Inquistion stuff was from CATHOLICS, some that strayed far from the Christian belief. May I stress that burning of unbelievers had never been recommended or mentioned in the Bible.
Of Holidays - well, if you'll rather have NO holidays at all, fine by me. Funny you're 'forced' to enjoy a holiday. with the market overflowing with Santa Claus and does I don't think all kids in the streets know who Jesus Christ is. Story books and all that taught us Christmas is a festival for Santa Claus to give presents, end of story. Shall I say that the market or the merchants are 'forcing' us to stray from our faith then? Story books, text books toys and all that? unlikely.
and most interesting of all, people will rather believe in the Big Bang, SOMEHOW galaxies are formed, SOMEHOW the Earth appeared, SOMEHOW single cell organisms developed into multi-cell organisms, then after billions and trillions of years, apes evolved into humans.
just about the thinnest theory I have heard of in my life. Even better than the story of Santa Claus.
Furthermore, parents can choose to send their kids to schools with NO religion-background. IF they choose to send their kids to a Christian school, it is not FORCING their kids to take the Christian faith - we don't hold guns at their temple ordering them to swear to believe in Jesus Christ *Forcing implies acting against somebody's will, perhaps I am a foolish 16 years old teenager but I have not heard of a single child at the age of two already resisting going to schools of Christian background.* We introduce them to this religion, introduce them to Jesus Christ. Later as they grow up they always have the choice of turning their back on God. The choice is theirs.
clearly you didn't read what I have written. I have stated that the Inquistion stuff was from CATHOLICS, some that strayed far from the Christian belief. May I stress that burning of unbelievers had never been recommended or mentioned in the Bible.
Of Holidays - well, if you'll rather have NO holidays at all, fine by me. Funny you're 'forced' to enjoy a holiday. with the market overflowing with Santa Claus and does I don't think all kids in the streets know who Jesus Christ is. Story books and all that taught us Christmas is a festival for Santa Claus to give presents, end of story. Shall I say that the market or the merchants are 'forcing' us to stray from our faith then? Story books, text books toys and all that? unlikely.
and most interesting of all, people will rather believe in the Big Bang, SOMEHOW galaxies are formed, SOMEHOW the Earth appeared, SOMEHOW single cell organisms developed into multi-cell organisms, then after billions and trillions of years, apes evolved into humans.
just about the thinnest theory I have heard of in my life. Even better than the story of Santa Claus.
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DeletedUser
If you are referring to the bible, then I assume you mean the old and new testament. In which case I will have to ask you to explain the recurring themes of rape, incest, homosexuality, torture, guilt, and killing in the old testament.
If your faith comes from the bible, then you can certainly justify the Inquisition, Authoritarian rule of various leaders, Babylonian Captivity, as well as ALL of the violence that occurred in the Middle Ages that you are quick to distance yourself from. Those actions that you say are "off the books" are very much on the books and very much condoned, so I think you need to do some research before telling me I don't know about the topic here.
You also exclude Catholics from Christianity, conveniently.
So it seems that at best, you are selectively using the bible to recognize the pro's and con's of the history of your faith. I am not trying to be confrontational, but you just lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned. I'm still not even claiming to know more about you, but you are not making sense when you reference the bible in your argument.
DeletedUser14029
Rape, Incest, Homosexuality, Torture, Guilt, and Killing are recorded. Because it's a history record of how the human race began. These things are recorded but by no means encouraged. in fact, if you look in more the Bible disapproves these actions (strongly, so strong that God rained burning sulphur and fire onto the two sinful cities when sodomites, murders and gang rapes were everyday business)
I do NOT justify the Inquistion, (what will it take for you people to understand?!) because it goes against what God and Jesus both have mentioned - we have the choice to choose whether or not to believe in Jesus. We hate the sin but love the sinner. Torture and killing have never been what a true Christian should do.
(Note: Killing in times of war is justified. Look up the Bible if you want to know why I don't have much time as a student to explain. 'sides, I will rather leave the question unanswered than to give you a wrong answer and further strengthen your alienation of Christianity Also, NO Christians are sinless *we're still humans*, rather we feel guilty of our sins and ask continuously for God's forgiveness and do better next time.)
About excluding Catholics from Christianity - this is due to the fact I am a Protestant Christian. We call ourselves Christian and we mention them as Catholics. but all in all we're still Christians - I am against the Catholics in the medieval ages having the nonsensical witch-hunts, tortures and all (which resulted partly in the fading of the faith as suppression to this extreme degree will only provoke rebellions) that. So if I gave you guys the impression we're trying to 'shove' away their history I apologise here for any inconvenience/confusion caused.
Also, as a last reminder, I am only a 16-year-old teenager trying to do my part here. even if my answers fail to satisfy you or even annoyed you, I only ask of you to keep an open heart so that one day you will really hear about the Good News from a proper preacher :'(
I do NOT justify the Inquistion, (what will it take for you people to understand?!) because it goes against what God and Jesus both have mentioned - we have the choice to choose whether or not to believe in Jesus. We hate the sin but love the sinner. Torture and killing have never been what a true Christian should do.
(Note: Killing in times of war is justified. Look up the Bible if you want to know why I don't have much time as a student to explain. 'sides, I will rather leave the question unanswered than to give you a wrong answer and further strengthen your alienation of Christianity
Also, NO Christians are sinless *we're still humans*, rather we feel guilty of our sins and ask continuously for God's forgiveness and do better next time.)About excluding Catholics from Christianity - this is due to the fact I am a Protestant Christian. We call ourselves Christian and we mention them as Catholics. but all in all we're still Christians - I am against the Catholics in the medieval ages having the nonsensical witch-hunts, tortures and all (which resulted partly in the fading of the faith as suppression to this extreme degree will only provoke rebellions) that. So if I gave you guys the impression we're trying to 'shove' away their history I apologise here for any inconvenience/confusion caused.
Also, as a last reminder, I am only a 16-year-old teenager trying to do my part here. even if my answers fail to satisfy you or even annoyed you, I only ask of you to keep an open heart so that one day you will really hear about the Good News from a proper preacher :'(
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DeletedUser
Fair enough. You are not annoying me at all. When I am speaking direct and to the point, I am not trying to be confrontational, although I did challenge you. It's just how I come off when I am writing rather than speaking. You are very articulate for a 16 year old I must say. I don't want to argue so much as discuss. I was saying that you made more sense when you were not using the bible to back up your argument.
It's just that I studied the bible (I went to 2 Jesuit Universities) extensively & against my will. It is by no means a reference tool for a fact based discussion and it has likely been written and changed hundreds of times, so it is not accurate wrt historical data. I feel that it is at best a fantastic work of pure fiction. At worst, it is a non-sensical pile of sh*t that should be condemned for being responsible for killing so many trees.
(It is the #1 selling book of all time I believe)
I will finally admit that I don't know the difference between the various modern sects of Christianity (I know some historical differences) and I am too lazy to look it up so if this is part of the discussion I must concede.
It's just that I studied the bible (I went to 2 Jesuit Universities) extensively & against my will. It is by no means a reference tool for a fact based discussion and it has likely been written and changed hundreds of times, so it is not accurate wrt historical data. I feel that it is at best a fantastic work of pure fiction. At worst, it is a non-sensical pile of sh*t that should be condemned for being responsible for killing so many trees.
(It is the #1 selling book of all time I believe)
I will finally admit that I don't know the difference between the various modern sects of Christianity (I know some historical differences) and I am too lazy to look it up so if this is part of the discussion I must concede.
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