A serious question for evangelical christians

[DeletedUser]

ghost preacher. Sounds like a new hit sit com for the abc network. But if people are going to here about it in the spirit world, then why bother preaching in this world? I suppose though, it is better than the alternative belief that most christians adhere to. That even if you have never had the chance to hear the word you still go to hell. That was another thing that I disliked about christianity. That because christians failed to spread the word, the people they failed would be the ones condemned to eternal suffring.

 

[DeletedUser]

(( right, let's keep this focused on answering/debating the question posed by the OP, and not travel into religion bashing ))

 

[DeletedUser]

Hmm, Betsy, could you do me a favor and point out where in the Bible the above-bolded arguments are stated? I mean, I read the Bible a few times over and, for the life of me, I can't find your interpretation anywhere.

I was a member of a pentecostal congregation for a few years. I remember this concept being taught, I do not remember the reference given.

 

[DeletedUser]

Pentecostals are the ones who dig speaking in tongues? Right?

 

[DeletedUser]

Pentecostals are the ones who dig speaking in tongues? Right?

Yup.

 

[DeletedUser]

I do not see what pentecostals are thinking when they try and speak in tounges, Are they trying to speak their mind in a touretteish manner or something and then claim god spoke through them??? I just don't get it, why do they act like that? Hell, I really don't want to know... Yet I find it so interesting on the psycological levels...

 

[DeletedUser]

As most of you know I am not a christian. And, while I can understand a certain amount of "missionary" work and door to door "conversion conversations" (though I find the folks who practice this tend to have less working knowledge of their faith than I do [thanks to being a voracious reader and having a mother who held a degree in comparative mythology (specifically far eastern religions)]). There is a subset of people out there trying to spread their faith that I just don't get. These are the folks who hang out in the subway (I live in NYC and make a fair portion of my living at the moment busking in the subways) declaiming at the top of their lungs about how the folks passing by are bound for hell and should accept Jesus as their savior. Seriously, people in the subway are already grouchy, harried and in a hurry. If they ain't already Christian do you think that they are going to be particularly open to the overtures of someone who is telling them they are evil while assaulting their ears and impeding their forward movement while pressing unwanted literature into their hands? It hardly seems the most effective way to gain converts or even open a dialogue.

You aimed this question at 'evangelical Christians'. The truth is most Evangelical Christians do not go door to door trying to convert people. Those who do this belong to cults (Mormon, JW, etc) who CALL themselves evangelical Christians.

The true evangelical Christian spreads the Word by inviting you to come hear it (ie, Billy Graham, et al). And while, at times, the Truth is spread through door-to-door contact, it is NEVER forced upon the person at the door by true Evangelical Christians.

So, please, in the future don't lump true believers with these other groups.

Miss Molly Belle, an Evangelical Baptist.

 

[DeletedUser]

Miss Molly Belle, should I ask if all evangelical baptists have such difficulty reading, or is it just you?

David was not referring to door-to-door converters, He stated rather clearly he was referring to, "the folks who hang out in the subway declaiming at the top of their lungs about how the folks passing by are bound for hell and should accept Jesus as their savior."

Oh, and you're skirting the line with that "true believers" crap.

 

[DeletedUser]

The true evangelical Christian spreads the Word by inviting you to come hear it (ie, Billy Graham, et al).

Don't you just love Billy Graham?

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]Only when Christ comes again will the little white children of Alabama walk hand in hand with little black children.[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]
[SIZE=-1]-- Billy Graham

[/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]I go and I keep friends with [Abe] Rosenthal at the New York Times and people of that sort, you know. And all -- I mean, not all the Jews, but a lot of the Jews are great friends of mine, they swarm around me and are friendly to me because they know that I'm friendly with Israel. But they don't know how I really feel about what they are doing to this country. And I have no power, no way to handle them, but I would stand up if under proper circumstances.
[SIZE=-1]-- Billy Graham[/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1][SIZE=-1], in a transcript of an Oval Office conversation with Richard Nixon from 1972, recently made public in March, 2002, by the National Archives, quoted by David Firestone in the New York Times (March 17, 2002), excerpted from Chris Basten, letter to Cliff Walker (March 22, 2002)

[/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]I have never talked publicly or privately about the Jewish people, including conversations with President Nixon, except in the most positive terms.
[SIZE=-1]-- Billy Graham[/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT]

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/qframe.htm

 

[DeletedUser]

Billy Graham is what the Bible would call a "false prophet." Why? Because he taught a false gospel. Billy told people to pray a prayer to receive salvation. The Bible tells us to just believe -- to place our trust in the one and only Savior, Jesus Christ.

Jesus, God incarnate in human form (just as he took on the form of a pillar of fire, a cloud, a rock, and Melkizedek), took on the sins of the world on the cross. He was paying the debt we all owe because of our sins. We are all guilty; we've all sinned; we all deserve hell. But Jesus loves every single one of us so much that he went to hell in our place! He loves you; he doesn't want you to go to hell. He went there for you.

If we try to get to heaven by the merit of any good deed, we nullify grace. "Grace" means "to receive what you don't deserve." If I try to receive heaven based on some deed that I have done, I'm trying to deserve heaven. That would be to nullify grace.

Every person who prays the "sinner's prayer" to receive the free gift of heaven is trying to earn salvation by that good deed. This is why Billy Graham was a false prophet. He led hundreds of thousands to have a temporary false assurance of salvation because they prayed a prayer.




Evangelists should preach in the open air. However, they should come across as rational and normal. Trying to share God's love: trying to share that He suffered to save you.

 

[DeletedUser]

Billy Graham is what the Bible would call a "false prophet." Why? Because he taught a false gospel.

Wouldn't believers in Billy Graham's version of Christianity say the same thing about you?

As an outsider, I have to say, it all looks the same to me...

 

[DeletedUser]

You aimed this question at 'evangelical Christians'. The truth is most Evangelical Christians do not go door to door trying to convert people. Those who do this belong to cults (Mormon, JW, etc) who CALL themselves evangelical Christians.

The true evangelical Christian spreads the Word by inviting you to come hear it (ie, Billy Graham, et al). And while, at times, the Truth is spread through door-to-door contact, it is NEVER forced upon the person at the door by true Evangelical Christians.

So, please, in the future don't lump true believers with these other groups.

Miss Molly Belle, an Evangelical Baptist.

sorry I fail to see the difference since I find an issue with all christian groups that preach any variation of the you don't follow our path so you are damned to hell (including the Roman Catholic Church that begat all of them)

 

[DeletedUser]

Wouldn't believers in Billy Graham's version of Christianity say the same thing about you?

As an outsider, I have to say, it all looks the same to me...

Sure, they would say the same about me. But I expect an argument telling me why. I stated my case; now let Belle state hers. You should be capable of following the theological debate, and recognizing the difference between the two sides.

sorry I fail to see the difference since I find an issue with all christian groups that preach any variation of the you don't follow our path so you are damned to hell (including the Roman Catholic Church that begat all of them)

If you don't have a Savior from hell, you will go there yourself. Make sense to me. If you're a criminal, you go to jail. End of story. However, if the judge serves your time for you, you've been saved. Jesus went to hell! He loves you that much!

Don't spew that Roman Catholic garbage. The RCC was NOT the original church! It did not even start to organize until 400 A.D. or so.

 

[DeletedUser]

I've only had door-to-door salvation once, when I was in the states. I was very drunk, and as soon as I found out that they were evangelizing me, I shouted "You dare to bring your false god here? I worship only the lord Zeus!". I think they knew I was joking, but they left anyway.

And Justin, even if you don't believe in Catholicism, you have to accept that it's been around as long as Christianity has. Saint Peter was a Catholic!

 

[DeletedUser]

Miss Molly Belle, should I ask if all evangelical baptists have such difficulty reading, or is it just you?

When did this become the "State of Anarchy Insults Club"???

David was not referring to door-to-door converters, He stated rather clearly he was referring to, "the folks who hang out in the subway declaiming at the top of their lungs about how the folks passing by are bound for hell and should accept Jesus as their savior."

Oh, and you're skirting the line with that "true believers" crap.

Yet you are still throwing all Christians into the same train...



Alright, this has become a pointless hatefest ever since Miss Molly Belle stated a very important fact:
Not all Christian groups are the same.

Not all Athiest groups are the same either, because the Athiests I know in real life do not take little swipes at every single christian, and they don't make fun of them for believing. As a matter of fact they support christians in their right to choose what to do in life.

We are all guilty; we've all sinned; we all deserve hell.

This is where my viewpoint for my religion differs, I believe we are put on earth 'Clean as a whistle' and our primary objective is to make something of ourselves and enjoy what god created. But doing something bad to take more than your fair share, such as Bernie Madoff, or taking away someone elses life when not in a battle, like the countless evil men that have been on this world, would get someone sent to hell. Helping others achieve the goals to enjoy gods creations is just extra credit, and to David, those people in the subway, some of them actually think they are helping you.

Wouldn't believers in Billy Graham's version of Christianity say the same thing about you?

I don't know, we are all different.

As an outsider, I have to say, it all looks the same to me...

And so, it does. Well then, would you be willing to walk the earth as a Christian, any Christian, for even just one week, in order to try to get an understanding of what the religion basically means?

sorry I fail to see the difference since I find an issue with all christian groups that preach any variation of the you don't follow our path so you are damned to hell (including the Roman Catholic Church that begat all of them)

Miss Molly Bell has said it once, and I've said it once, and I will say it again because this hate has gone on long enough.
NOT ALL CHRISTIAN GROUPS ARE THE SAME.

And Justin, even if you don't believe in Catholicism, you have to accept that it's been around as long as Christianity has. Saint Peter was a Catholic!

I have no argument against that, therefore, I rest my case!

 

[DeletedUser]

Sure, they would say the same about me. But I expect an argument telling me why. I stated my case; now let Belle state hers. You should be capable of following the theological debate, and recognizing the difference between the two sides.

I'm going to (mis) quote someone, but...

"I personally think that arguing over which religion is best is like two kids arguing about who has the best invisible friend"

And so, it does. Well then, would you be willing to walk the earth as a Christian, any Christian, for even just one week, in order to try to get an understanding of what the religion basically means?

Are you under the mistaken impression that all atheists were never Christians or believers in "God" at some point in their lives?

I was raised in a Christian family and believed in a "God" at one time. Does that make a difference to you? Will you grant me now that I have an "understanding of what the religion basically means"?

How about you? Have you ever been an atheist? Given it a try to understand what non-belief basically means? (And no, I'm not under the assumption that no atheist later becomes a Christian or otherwise a believer)

 

[DeletedUser]

How about you? Have you ever been an atheist? Given it a try to understand what non-belief basically means? (And no, I'm not under the assumption that no atheist later becomes a Christian or otherwise a believer)

I have rejected the existance of god before, but I quickly went back to being christian because I felt alone denying the existance of god. But that's just me, other people are different.

 

[DeletedUser]

I never said all Christian groups were the same I said that All Near Eastern religions shared certain aspects that I find to be arrogant and reprehensible. For all intents and purposes the Roman Catholic Church was the first "Official" Church (they are the folks who decided which gospels to keep and which to toss and are responsible for the current form of the New Testament) Conversion/spreading the gospel through conquest and coercion was the beginnings of modern evangelism

 

[DeletedUser]

(( Let me make it abundantly clear, denomination bashing is still religion bashing and will not be tolerated. This is a general warning, my last warning on this thread. ))

This thread is the property of David Crockett, and under this community's protection. Please stay on topic and shelf your hate speeches for the subway terminals. If you think you're better than someone else, by all means realize merely holding to that belief means you are not.

 

[DeletedUser]

check this out

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...st-Christian-church-discovered-in-Jordan.html