DeletedUser
Explain to me why a sword should be the strongest weapon in the game? Especially when its available at level 57?
Last edited by a moderator:
DeletedUser
According to one of the developer posts on another forum ... there are weapons more powerful then Hernandos that can be found via high Luck jobs but to date nobody has found them yet ... mind you there are L 90+ players on other worlds... so they've been looking much longer.
Also the Stone Chain/Talisman do not do anything - yet/if ever. (But I still wouldn't sell them... )
Also the Stone Chain/Talisman do not do anything - yet/if ever. (But I still wouldn't sell them... )
DeletedUser
Actually, Hernando's sword is not that much more powerful then the best gun in the game. Precise Buntline is 89-115 damage and has the same +7 reflex that hernando's sword does, so 10 less max damage and no trading bonus, and on top of that it's way eiser to get then the sword.
Also look at all the clothing items available where +shooting is available, especially the higher end stuff. The highest bonus +Vigor shirt (Red checkered shirt) has +15 vigor only and nothing else. But with the Fancy coat you get +16 shooting and a ton more (+1 Dexterity,+1 Charisma,+9 Stamina,+9 Horseback riding,+16 Shooting, +17 Tactic). So you give up a little damage per hit but you are more likely to hit with the gun and have better overall defensive stats.
DeletedUser
Sorry, I am a firearm user.
I think they better start putting new things in the game to make it fair for everybody.
I think they better start putting new things in the game to make it fair for everybody.
Last edited by a moderator:
DeletedUser
However you fail to understand the other interlinked point that I made there. The precise buntline is available 21 yes thats 21 levels later. The best equivalent level gun is:
Army revolver 49-71 55 +4 Toughness
Need I say more?
You payoff with the clothing is that the vigor stuff is a lot cheaper and available earlier then the top end shooty stuff. Plus vigor gives high paying jobs very early on, whilst shooting doesn't do much for a long long time.
Red Falcon
Well-Known Member
Wow! Furry Ice Cubes used one of my quotes in her siggy! That can only mean that she really likes having me as the Piss Boy of her Sacred Church of Onion! Awesomeness!
DeletedUser
OH the irony.
I hear tell you can't get it untill your level 57 though, unless you find it.
DeletedUser
It shouldn't. The two modes should be balanced. That means we should have:
- an equivalent to Hernando's
- some more top-level vigor jobs
- some more lower-level shooting jobs
- quest lines/rewards which remember the vigor dueler
...and probably a few more things. As things stand now, it's all out of whack.
DeletedUser
I'm not sure that everything should be the same - it looks to me like a matter of personal choices again. I can choose to be a vigor dueller, knowing I can get a nice weapon, but then I won't have all the top-level vigor jobs. Or I can choose to be a firearms dueller, knowing I won't get the "best" weapon, but better top-end jobs. With every choice you make, you win some, and you lose some - that is a good aspect of the game, that should not be levelled out by giving exactly the same rewards regardless of choices you make.
Everybody agrees that builders/adventurers should not whine about duellers duelling them, it is their own choice to be what they are. The same goes for the advantages / disadvantages of your weapons choice as well: you choose if you want better top-end jobs, or the "best" duelling weapon.
B.t.w. - does anybody have Hernando's sword on the English servers yet?
DeletedUser
Holysatan and FargoBear...anyone else?
DeletedUser
Not necessarily identical, just comparable. Otherwise you end up with people experimenting for a little while until one or the other is found to be in fact superior for the long term, and then everyone goes that way, leaving the other branch to wither and die. I don't wanna see that happen. I do agree with you that it's good to have trade-offs, they just need to be balanced thoughtfully enough to make both sides viable.
DeletedUser
I think shooting has the advantage but shooting jobs, I think are not very high wage jobs unlike clearing the forest which is a high paying vigor job. Shooting jobs like transport ammo have high luck but low xp and wages.
DeletedUser
No way- I agree with Wes, It's a choice you make and you get advantages earlier as a melee fighter and advantages later as a ranged dueler. I think it is fine the way it is unless they want to eliminate the melee dueler entirely which is fine with me. I think they should eliminate Hernando's sword and further restrict the melee dueler later in the game to make it more realistic. If you choose to be a melee dueler and reap the early rewards when you start running up against guns you should lose and lose badly.
It is ludicrous to believe that:
1) There were guys running around the west engaging in sword fights
2) A guy bringing a sword to a gunfight would ever win
However I agree it's a good idea to create more jobs that use vigor and toughness to even out the high end job quandary.
Change dueling- At high levels a melee dueler really should not have much of a chance. Guns are have a longer range (before a melee fighter ever got there he would look like swiss cheese)
The dev's need to realize this is not a game based on a sword fighting culture nor was it a time and place where sword fighting took place, so if melee fighters disappear so what?
DeletedUser
If melee fighters disappear, then guys who had focused much on strength will have absolutely no chance against guys who focused on dexterity.
DeletedUser
I'll just give up and realize this is more like the Dungeons & Dragons version of the west. When I started out in this game (silly me) I thought it was going to be based mostly on the west- as in the American west. So would any other sane person who looked at the sign in page. I don't care if melee disappears and if they stay all I'm saying is that they should be severely handicapped if dueling at high levels (say above 50)
This is the era when firearms became far superior to swords, knives, whips. etc...There should be some advantage to using the most technologically advanced weapon of its day especially when fighting an opponent carrying 300 year old technology
This is the era when firearms became far superior to swords, knives, whips. etc...There should be some advantage to using the most technologically advanced weapon of its day especially when fighting an opponent carrying 300 year old technology
DeletedUser
Mulekick...I think we all made the same mistake. It was granite and slingshots that made me realize this had nothing to do with the genre of movies I loved so much. Would it be so hard to make them crappy guns instead of utterly stupid and off theme rocks and slingshots?
DeletedUser
Totally agree Elmyr
Would it be too much to ask for the dev's to do a little research and realize derringers were not an A+ (Belle Star's for one) dueling weapon and too call one precise is an oxymoron! Put the derringers at the beginning with muzzle loaders and the blunderbuss they pass off as a shotgun. Game could be great if the dev's would just respect the history of the west enough to try and get it somewhat correct. I don't have a problem with a low level guy fighting with a knife and against poorer quality firearms might actually stand a chance but say above level 20 when better and more precise guns come into play a knife is not a realistic (or unrealistic-it's just laughable) threat in a gunfight. So many more really cool guns that could be implemented into the game, LeMat, Navy Colt, Walker Colt, why not throw in John Wayne's Peacemaker? Just a thought............
Always use the 7 P's.........Plenty Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance
Would it be too much to ask for the dev's to do a little research and realize derringers were not an A+ (Belle Star's for one) dueling weapon and too call one precise is an oxymoron! Put the derringers at the beginning with muzzle loaders and the blunderbuss they pass off as a shotgun. Game could be great if the dev's would just respect the history of the west enough to try and get it somewhat correct. I don't have a problem with a low level guy fighting with a knife and against poorer quality firearms might actually stand a chance but say above level 20 when better and more precise guns come into play a knife is not a realistic (or unrealistic-it's just laughable) threat in a gunfight. So many more really cool guns that could be implemented into the game, LeMat, Navy Colt, Walker Colt, why not throw in John Wayne's Peacemaker? Just a thought............
Always use the 7 P's.........Plenty Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance
Last edited by a moderator:
DeletedUser
There is no where saying there is a certain range inbetween both fighters in the duels... I can just come to you and chop you with my tomahawk if I wanted to.
and if you want some more realism, we can remove shooting skill aswell, I don't see how this affects anywhere the damage you do, unlike vigor
aswell as doing some 1 hit duels, first to hit wins, other gets ko and wakes up in hotel.
DeletedUser
OK, A Duel as in what was carried out in Europe and Colonial America and then the West. In Europe and Colonial America they were at a set distance (can't remember I think @ 25 feet) In the West which this game is supposedly based gunfights (hey they show guys with guns in the screen don't they?) were typically at more than arms length.
Now to the comment about shooting, you haven't ever shot a gun have you? I have shot many guns for many years and yes shooting is a skill set and the better you are at it the better results (damage) you can expect.
As far as walking up and "tomahawking" someone (while I find the visual hilarious-see Family Guy) I think a person seeing an adversary approach with tomahawk in hand, would be ready to use an offensive attack as a deterrent and not let their attacker in close. I know if I saw someone walking towards me with a tomahawk I would definitely not let them get within 20 feet of me! If tomahawks and other melee-type items are such great fighting weapons against guns why didn't the Indians defeat the Army and drive the settlers out? Why? Firearms are superior! Plain and simple fact!
If they can't see you coming and you hit them with your tomahawk, then it is murder not a duel
One last thing, Mekolp can you or anyone else for that matter name a classic western movie (besides Zorro) where a sword was used as a dueling weapon? I can name one movie where a knife did beat a gun- Magnificent Seven and he was not dueling Yul Brynner or Steve McQueen! Now admittedly Western movies are not the most accurate portrayal of life in the "old west" but they are way way way more accurate than this game!