Evilution: the Descent of Man

DeletedUser

I know that any information provided by a liberal, socialistic, atheist flower child who taught Sunday school and read the Bible cover to cover several times isn't to be believed, but I'd like to know how you explain Down's Syndrome if mutations ONLY take away. Medical evidence (which is probably not believable to the only true believer here!) shows that it is caused by a child having an extra chromosome - does that mean they are the norm and the rest of us with only 46 chromosomes are the mutations?


For clarification; an "atheist" who believes he could be wrong, is called an agnostic.
 
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nashy19

Nashy (as himself)
I'm calling myself agnostic because I like some pantheist reasoning, but they have a terrible definition of god so without being clear of the definition I'm forced to be agnostic. Also because of the wide range of beliefs in the pantheist community it's not a very good title to use (I'd have an easier time just explaining myself).
 

DeletedUser

i believ in evolution but i am a christian if that makes sense and i was watching a thing on charles darwin and was wondering are there different species of HUMAN!!!!!!
 

nashy19

Nashy (as himself)
i believ in evolution but i am a christian if that makes sense and i was watching a thing on charles darwin and was wondering are there different species of HUMAN!!!!!!

Again definitions are pretty confused.

Here's one:
the major subdivision of a genus or subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification, composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of another species.
From that I would say no.

Or,
a class of individuals having some common characteristics or qualities; distinct sort or kind.
There's hair colour, eye colour, skin colour, certain humans will have immunities to some diseases etc. So from that I'd say yes.
 

DeletedUser

Superficial differences aren't an indicator of speciation. It's usually indicated when they can no longer interbreed. Of course there are exceptions, like horses and mules, lions and tigers, which are clearly different species.
 

nashy19

Nashy (as himself)
Yeah, I was just thinking about the different types. East-Asian, Viking, African, Australian, Middle-Eastern/European. They are all easy to spot.

One thing I wonder about is how emotional differences are past down, not 'if' but 'how' in my case.
 

DeletedUser

My point was is that there are extremists on both sides of the spectrum. As for extreme atheists -- there are some atheists who admit they might be wrong.

Then you utterly failed to make your point, pretty much like a fat kid in a candy-store fails to lay off the chocolate.


In wich regards do atheists admit they are wrong?
No atheist will ever admit to beeing "wrong" in regards of there beeing no gods etc, because then he'd be an agnostic.
 

DeletedUser

My point was is that there are extremists on both sides of the spectrum. As for extreme atheists -- there are some atheists who admit they might be wrong.

If that was your point, you should probably leave out the personal "You are all..."

As for atheists, there are those who say definitively that there is no god. They still can't be extremists. Not believing in something there is no evidence for is not extreme.

I don't believe in the tooth fairy either. That isn't extreme. In fact, my disbelief means that I have absolutely zero interest in the tooth fairy, just as atheists have zero interest in god. There is no way to be "extremely" disinterested.

As for atheists who admit "they might be wrong", that is simply an epistemological position on what can be known, not a position on what is likely to be the case. You will find they can say just as easily (and with the same disinterest), "I might be wrong about the tooth fairy."
 

DeletedUser

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DeletedUser

Debating Design: The Bacterial Flagellum
by Frank Sherwin, M.A.

olecular motors--machines made of protein on the submicroscopic scale--are clear evidence of creative design (Romans 1:20). However, scientists who approach the data from an evolutionary perspective are quick to counter such design in the evidence. They insist that blind chance, mutations, and natural selection are all that is necessary to make a constant-torque, liquid-cooled, proton-motive force-powered rotating motor such as the tiny bacterial flagellum.

Did the flagellum have a purely naturalistic origin? Consider these two contradictory evaluations from secular scientists:

Natural selection thus accounts for the development of flagellum-driven bacterial motility.1

Natural selection can act only on those biologic properties that already exist; it cannot create properties in order to meet adaptational needs.2

Creation scientists do not object to natural selection in principle; however, it operates only on the information that is already present in the genes. Natural selection does not produce new information that would be required to make, for example, cyanobacteria.

A recent article sets out to counter the Intelligent Design argument of bacterial flagella's "irreducible complexity" by proposing that flagella developed as modular systems.3 The authors highlight an F-type ATPase--an enzyme clearly evidenced by design--and appeal to structures that are "equivalent" or "homologous" to other closely associated enzymes (e.g., homohexameric (FliI)6 ATPase of the flagellum and subunits of the F-ATPase). This is merely an extension of the evolutionary argument of homology -- that similar structures share a common developmental origin. Creation scientists state that these subunits do not have the same evolutionary descent, but rather the same Designer. In other words, God uses the same materials (N-terminal and C-terminal subunits) to make different micromachines in His creation (such as those found in mitochondria, chloroplasts, and bacteria). Put another way, there are many different bridges throughout the world, but a closer look shows that most of them use the same types of bolts, girders, and cables.

The authors use phrases such as "may have been" and "possibly arose" -- hardly the definitive declarations one should use to document the "fact" of evolution.

Concluding their arguments, the eight authors reveal their main objection to the design argument:

The English playwright Oscar Wilde said,
"Science is the record of dead religions." In terms of the intelligent design case regarding |the bacterial flagellum|, the current factual analyses force this example to exit the realm of religion and return fully to the arena of science.4
The refusal to allow the evidence to speak for itself is simply unscientific. Creation and science are not incompatible. And, quite unaware, these scientists are actually unlocking the mysteries of creation.

References

1 Wong, T. et al. 2007. Evolution of the Bacterial Flagellum. Microbe, 335-40.
2 Noble, E. et al. 1989. Parasitology: the Biology of Animal Parasites, sixth edition. Philadelphia: Lea and Febiger, 516.
3 Wong et al, 335.
4 Ibid, 339.

http://www.icr.org/article/3465/
 

nashy19

Nashy (as himself)

I looked up videos by Lee Strobe (he has a law qualification). The reason I was watching is because somebody has lied to me and told me there was an interesting theory about elections (the theory was meant to relate to god... somehow).

But my point is that these Scientists don't even have to have their PhD's in any relevant area, as long as they actually have a PhD in 'something' and there's a guy willing there to glorify them, whatever they say goes.
 

DeletedUser

olecular motors--machines made of protein on the submicroscopic scale--are clear evidence of creative design (Romans 1:20).

So in Romans 1:20 they speak about molecular motors? Interesting...

The authors use phrases such as "may have been" and "possibly arose" -- hardly the definitive declarations one should use to document the "fact" of evolution.

This is how science works these days. Read up on Karl Raimund Popper and others who set the base for modern science.

Creation and science are not incompatible.

It absolutely is incompatible.
If there was a designer behind life, then why aren't there any creatures with wheels? Have you ever seen cars with legs? No? Why not? Because wheels are way better at saving energy.
Why would a designer create something like legs then? Sounds like a pretty stupid one, if even humans are smarter with inventing the wheel.
 
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