Why are they called duels? They should be called assassinations.

DeletedUser

I'm six hours away from town, working in my work gear, and suddenly I lose half my HP and a third of my cash?

Whatever.

At the very least, you should be able to set your dueling gear, which is what you wear to defend yourself in a duel. If you're hitting people while they're wearing their work gear, that's not a duel.
 

DeletedUser

Hi Mole Whacker, this isn't the right place for your post, though we all go through the same.
If all you want to do is work and not be jumped, leave your town.
Though I believe with the new update no one will be safe :laugh::laugh:
That or you improve your dueling skills, so you don't lose or atleast lower the damage of your enemies :)
Good luck on your path of peace either way.
 

DeletedUser13636

I think I get what Mole Whacker is saying though. It would be nice if we could pick a preset defense setting, that way when we are attacked in our work gear our player will always revert to the preset defense package we set when we are challenged to a duel. I like this idea.
 

DeletedUser

Hi Mole Whacker, this isn't the right place for your post, though we all go through the same.
If all you want to do is work and not be jumped, leave your town.
Though I believe with the new update no one will be safe :laugh::laugh:
That or you improve your dueling skills, so you don't lose or atleast lower the damage of your enemies :)
Good luck on your path of peace either way.

I don't particularly mind being dueled. I mind that I don't get a chance to switch to my dueling outfit before fighting. If this change or a similar one won't be made, I have a much better solution for a path of peace.
 

DeletedUser

Just wait for new update wont be long now, all your idea does is make really good duelers even better, with no fear while working a job did you think about that ?
 
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DeletedUser

Good duelers are good because they put their skill points into the dueling skills, the setups are pretty much random.

Jobs required certain skills to be able to do them, and to do some of them you either have to re-spec your skill points or wear clothing items to make up for the job points that you are missing, this makes you a sitting duck to be attacked, regardless of where the duel takes place. The new update will do nothing to stop this from happening. The attacker always has the advantage of setting their dueling gear as they know when the attack is going to happen since they are the ones initiating it. So they will go after those they see having working clothes on.

Every player should have 2 sets of clothing spots available to them, one that the system uses for duels and one that counts toward jobs.
 

DeletedUser

I do believe that Whacker is right. A real duel was not an issue of surprise, it was a pre arranged event wherein both fighters agreed to show up. To be able to practically ambush someone in this game does seem rather stacked towards the offensive side.

His idea does have merit, and I think developers will only shoot it down because it means more work on their part. More people should read this post to realize that this idea is on the table. Either negate the bonus to dueling from clothing, or allow a second clothing set-up for dueling only. This would not improve the good duelers either, as previously mentioned, because these people are the ones who go around with their dueling gear already on. In fact, it puts everyone on a level playing field as far as dueling goes. If a person is not notified of the intent to duel, then they should at least be allowed to pre-set their equipment to even out the disadvantage of people randomly springing duels on you.
 

DeletedUser26406

Gun Fights sound more real and is what they really were called.
 

DeletedUser

Yeah but it doesn't change my point. It wasn't a duel, or a gunfight if one were to sneak up behind the other and shoot him. A gunfight was two men who knew the stakes, not one poor sap who had no clue (more often than not :p)

The game should make some allotment for the defensive side of this whole deal.
 

Deleted User - 1278415

Thats how the west was.. gun bandits would sit behind rocks waiting for an unsuspecting traveler to walk by and mug them.

The law was a lot slower then with limited range on a horse.
There wasnt any CSI of the West.... hmmm that would have been an interesting idea for a TV show to pitch.. anyway.
Everyone had weapons as it was the code... go packin or hand it over. Thats why it cracks me up when people post in their profile "I had no gun/melee weapon equiped and you attacked a defenseless adventuer/worker... blah blah" thats honestly the way it really happened. Maybe not every single day... but there were bandits and x-soliders who took advantage of situations.

History shows that our civilization has come a long way since the lawless western days.
 

DeletedUser

Thats how the west was.. gun bandits would sit behind rocks waiting for an unsuspecting traveler to walk by and mug them.

The law was a lot slower then with limited range on a horse.
There wasnt any CSI of the West.... hmmm that would have been an interesting idea for a TV show to pitch.. anyway.
Everyone had weapons as it was the code... go packin or hand it over. Thats why it cracks me up when people post in their profile "I had no gun/melee weapon equiped and you attacked a defenseless adventuer/worker... blah blah" thats honestly the way it really happened. Maybe not every single day... but there were bandits and x-soliders who took advantage of situations.

History shows that our civilization has come a long way since the lawless western days.

"The West" wasn't nearly as lawless as you seem to be portraying it here. When gunfights happened, it was news and something that would show up in the regional newspapers of the era combined with cries from the citizens that "something should be done" about what was going on... particularly when a serial bandit was running around.

There were legal officers who did perform investigations and check out crimes that happened. I've read the reports from several of these investigations and as a matter of fact some of these gunfight investigations became a part of the congressional record. If you want to read about some real gunfights, here is an interesting e-book to read:

http://www.archive.org/details/messageofpreside00unitrich

It is very dry as it is the official reports written by generally cavalry officers who were patrolling the migration trails in the mid 19th Century so don't expect any excellent writing here, but I find it even more interesting as it is the words of the people of this era in their own pen.

There are many other similar documents that I could come up with including newspaper reports.... many of which can be found in historical archives that are online as well. Newspaper editors of the era.... well their main point was to sell newspapers and tended to exaggerate the details from time to time and stir up controversy even if none existed, but my point here is that such gunfights tended to be rare and exceptional things rather than being typical.

Yes, on the major migration routes there was a tendency for banditry and thievery. If they got too successful there tended to be a group of outraged citizenry that would pick up their guns and start to go after these guys. It also should be worth noting that a vast majority of the men in the western USA were also veterans of both the Mexican and U.S. Civil Wars. If somebody had fought at Bull Run, Gettysburg, and Shiloh do you really think they are going to back down because of a couple of stupid idiots are taking pot shots at their neighbors?

Where I live (I happen to live in the middle of the Rocky Mountains), the last major community action to take out a threat wasn't even a bandit.... it was a 10 foot tall grizzly bear that was eating sheep and scaring some of the women (the excuse given at the time for why there was concern) who would be passing through and seeing the carcasses of these sheep on the side of the road as they traveled through a mountain pass. About 300 folks in town grabbed their guns and set up a hunting party where they were more likely to shoot themselves, but they did end up tracking down this bear and killing the poor creature. The skull of this unfortunate creature ended up getting sent to the Smithsonian Institution in Washington DC, where about a century later it was finally cleaned up and sent to Utah State University where it is now on display.

That is how people dealt with banditry in the west, either by sending in soldiers or volunteering to be a "soldier" or "deputy" to take out the idiots. In fact in a town nearby there was a bear that went and killed a teenager who was camping in a national forest campground with his family, and sure enough a group of guys with guns crawled over the hills until the bear was found..... this was just a couple of years ago too. The spirit of the west is still alive in that sense, even if you now have cell phones and can dial 911 for help.

If you started shooting at somebody or worse yet killing somebody, expect that the kin folk of that person is going to try and hunt you down and likely that if you started causing mayhem that you would have the countryside crawling with nearly every citizen in the county or state after your behind. In some cases, the bandits created so many problems that they had to flee the country altogether.

The one possible exception here was the classic duel. This was a very formalized concept that actually has its roots in early Anglo-Saxon/Germanic culture where it was in reality a legal contest. In early Germanic cultures if you accused somebody of a crime you had several options in terms of how to deal with the individual including taking the charges to a judge. Instead of a trial by jury, one of the options was a trial by combat instead. Before firearms, this usually took on the form of a swordfight in a public area, where the theory went that "the gods" would favor the correct person and help them to win the battle thus proving who the wronged party really was. Yes it was "barbaric" in the most literal sense as it was the "Barbarians" of central Europe who came up with this concept including the early ancestors of the English.

By the 19th Century dueling had been formally declared illegal by most jurisdiction in America, but it was still a fairly common practice that was generally tolerated by the citizenry. If somebody got themselves into a classic duel with firearms, the "winner" was generally given a free pass even if they ended up killing their opponent (not always, but usually). This is because it was a formal trial by combat. Perhaps the most famous duel of all time in America was between two founders of the American Republic: Aaron Burr vs. Alexander Hamilton. They got into heated exchanged during a session of Congress which in turn spilled out into hallways afterward and then they challenged each other to a duel... something that many of their respective friends strongly tried to convince them to both avoid. None the less, the duel happened. See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burr–Hamilton_duel

If you want to portray dueling, this is the proper way to express it, or set up some way to get the citizens of a town to go after duelers and put them in their place. This idea that some bully is going to be running around the countryside terrorizing workers and be allowed to do that with impunity is something that isn't realistic, historically accurate, or something that is necessarily good game play. It is a sort of interesting fantasy environment after a fashion, but if you are going to throw in elements of fantasy to the situation you need to at least offer a way to fight back that is also sort of fantastic.

I don't think using an historical excuse for why duelers should be able to take pot shots at passing strangers is either accurate or even a reasonable expectation. Duels, as such as it was, were a very formal affair where one party certainly could decline or demand that it go to a trial by jury instead if justice was demanded. On this point, I think the original point raised by Mole Whacker is square on target where much of what happens in this game isn't a duel but rather pure banditry.

If you want to portray the situation better in terms of the game, it would be more akin to a dueler that when attacking a worker would then in turn have to face the entire town in a gunfight, simultaneously with all of their best weapons in play. If you don't think that would be "fair".... that is the point. It wasn't fair. It was to take out the bandit.

If you want to realistically portray how it really was done in the west, that is the best portrayal that I can think of. Either that or if you engage in a duel it would be a very formal affair where both would indeed have their best dueling gear on and the person who is being challenged would have the opportunity to decline the challenge. Dueling, as it happened in the west, was indeed a very formal affair.
 

DeletedUser

I think the proper term for what just happened here was PWNAGE lol
 

DeletedUser

I'm sorry to say this, but Good Feather, if you are representing the views of Inno as it seems here, then their views are simply in place to minimize any work that might have to be done.

Another game that I play, Gladiatus, has this type of inventory setup. They have two types of inventories upon reaching level ten. One is your standard arena battle defense/attack inventory, the other is based on dungeon excursions. In this way, it is very similar to the west. A player can guard themselves from other players challenging them in the arena, while still being able to go on dungeon quests without having to worry that they may be attacked and defenseless while not in Arena armour.

I can see where developers would have a problem. A whole separate inventory tab with connections back to the skills which still remains independent from the original set so on and so forth, but this IS a major issue. You have made this game unfair to the defenders, ESPECIALLY ones who prefer not to be aggressors in conflicts. If you are going to give one side the advantage of pre-setting their best equipment for a duel, and choosing the timing, then you should allow the defenders to be able to do just what their name implies; defend themselves.

If you can create a travelling shopkeeper, or consider the concept of a separate menu on an inventory tab for horse modifications, then surely you must be capable of designing a secondary inventory tab with the sole purpose of defending yourself in a duel.

PS

I apologize for any perceived insult from quoting another browser game on this forum. I mean no disrespect and in all truthfulness I enjoy The West much more lol
 
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DeletedUser22575

I'm sorry to say this, but Good Feather, if you are representing the views of Inno as it seems here, then their views are simply in place to minimize any work that might have to be done.

Another game that I play, Gladiatus, has this type of inventory setup. They have two types of inventories upon reaching level ten. One is your standard arena battle defense/attack inventory, the other is based on dungeon excursions. In this way, it is very similar to the west. A player can guard themselves from other players challenging them in the arena, while still being able to go on dungeon quests without having to worry that they may be attacked and defenseless while not in Arena armour.

I can see where developers would have a problem. A whole separate inventory tab with connections back to the skills which still remains independent from the original set so on and so forth, but this IS a major issue. You have made this game unfair to the defenders, ESPECIALLY ones who prefer not to be aggressors in conflicts. If you are going to give one side the advantage of pre-setting their best equipment for a duel, and choosing the timing, then you should allow the defenders to be able to do just what their name implies; defend themselves.

If you can create a travelling shopkeeper, or consider the concept of a separate menu on an inventory tab for horse modifications, then surely you must be capable of designing a secondary inventory tab with the sole purpose of defending yourself in a duel.

The game is what it is. This is the way it was when you joined it. I don't understand this attitude of let me join a game...then complaining about it being "unfair" and then players thinking it should be changed to fit their standards.
 

DeletedUser

The game actually ISN'T what it originally was, and TJ, anything that is expected to bring in money from customers who pay because they ENJOY something, has the responsibility to change to fit the wants/needs of its clients where possible.

Changes since I started in World 2

Speed Worlds
Forts
Travelling Salesman
New Premium Options
12 New Worlds to play in
Linked Town Forums
New Items and quests galore
-Many more that will most likely have gone unobserved because they were slipped in subtly.

The point is, that nothing in the world is static, and that everything changes. A business must adapt to survive the same way that an animal species must. Small changes over time change original concepts into things entirely different from their beginning states.

Summary:

The game has changed from exactly what it started as in many ways. This renders your argument baseless and futile.
 

DeletedUser22575

The game actually ISN'T what it originally was, and TJ, anything that is expected to bring in money from customers who pay because they ENJOY something, has the responsibility to change to fit the wants/needs of its clients where possible.

Changes since I started in World 2

Speed Worlds
Forts
Travelling Salesman
New Premium Options
12 New Worlds to play in
Linked Town Forums
New Items and quests galore
-Many more that will most likely have gone unobserved because they were slipped in subtly.

The point is, that nothing in the world is static, and that everything changes. A business must adapt to survive the same way that an animal species must. Small changes over time change original concepts into things entirely different from their beginning states.

Summary:

The game has changed from exactly what it started as in many ways. This renders your argument baseless and futile.

But what hasn't essentially changed is the dueling system which was what you were referring to..not everything else you noted. 1.29 will be the first major change to that. But since you did list all of those things...look at the changes they have made to satisfy their customer base.

And the point you also miss is there are those who ENJOY it the way it is...and also pay for it also. So that also effects the consideration of a business and changes they make.

So your argument is pretty much moot and futile as far as i am concerned..unless of course your another one of those elitists who thinks only your view on the way the game should be counts.
 
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DeletedUser

No I simply believe that a game should have fair play towards all players. Personally I do not support such an extent of premium where you can buy skill points and attribute points but I made no complaints to that. I simply believe that any game should be initiated in the interests of fair play. Is that so much to ask?

I am by no means an elitist however, I do believe in common sense and fairness. Also, your point about how the dueling system has not yet changed. fundamentally it has not, you still need to match up skills and bonuses and weapons to beat your opponent, but they have added NPC's to duel, and fort battles should be seen as a simple extension of person dueling conflicts.

Just because something has not changed does not mean that it never should. Look to history to prove itself there. On the off chance that you are not willing to look at the ever changing state of things in history, here are a couple examples...

Women Voting
Women Serving in the Military
Equal Rights in national constitutions
THE MAGNA CARTA
... and just in case you thought I had forgotten this little doozy,

Having a centralized, near instantaneous method of communication between multiple contacts and programs via servers and connections of fiber optic wiring around the world... aka the internet.

Things change, and fair play is something that is taught to children as early as junior kindergarten. So why not try to institute a system of fair play into this game? But let me guess, you enjoy being the aggressor in duels and you would hate to see yourself no longer placed in such a high state of advantage.
 

DeletedUser22575

No I simply believe that a game should have fair play towards all players. Personally I do not support such an extent of premium where you can buy skill points and attribute points but I made no complaints to that. I simply believe that any game should be initiated in the interests of fair play. Is that so much to ask?

I am by no means an elitist however, I do believe in common sense and fairness. Also, your point about how the dueling system has not yet changed. fundamentally it has not, you still need to match up skills and bonuses and weapons to beat your opponent, but they have added NPC's to duel, and fort battles should be seen as a simple extension of person dueling conflicts.

Just because something has not changed does not mean that it never should. Look to history to prove itself there. On the off chance that you are not willing to look at the ever changing state of things in history, here are a couple examples...

Women Voting
Women Serving in the Military
Equal Rights in national constitutions
THE MAGNA CARTA
... and just in case you thought I had forgotten this little doozy,

Having a centralized, near instantaneous method of communication between multiple contacts and programs via servers and connections of fiber optic wiring around the world... aka the internet.

Things change, and fair play is something that is taught to children as early as junior kindergarten. So why not try to institute a system of fair play into this game? But let me guess, you enjoy being the aggressor in duels and you would hate to see yourself no longer placed in such a high state of advantage.

Actually your wrong. I personally believe that something to a limited degree should be done to change the way it is.

I say limited because of a couple of reasons. First, I don't think the dueling system can or should be changed to where it is "fair".

Players choose a class knowing quite well in most case what the advantages and limitations of their class are.

A classic example of this is the worker. He is not a dueler and relies on a town to protect him, and most fail at that. But he has a lot of advantages when it comes to certain jobs, fort fighting, and most of all construction.

But when he gets dueled everyone wants to yell "builder killer" and wants some more built in game protections.

But I have not yet seen a single worker or adventurer say "hey..I am willing to give up some of my advantages in exchange for yours being limited some, or in exchange for some "built in" game protections.

So I dislike the "gimme more and take away from you entitlement attitude" many seem to have.

On the other hand I think some minor adjustments should be made to adjust for the class "slaughter effect" when it comes to dueling. And maybe the automatic "defensive set" adjustment is the answer.

But I do not think soldiers or duelers should receive that adjustment if it ever goes into effect. If you are one of those two class and you get hit wearing your "working clothes" change and go get revenge.

What I do think has happened in this game is there has been some slow, positive changes and there will be more over time. But for some of these changes or protection some classes are also going to need to give up something.

It can't always be "gimme more and take from you".
 

DeletedUser

Hey, the double inventory would benefit both sides of the equation. It would just even it out a little. Duelers and Soldiers could do this too, but it would simply make up for the ambush concept.

Technically, a dueler or soldier could, and in my experience many DO, wait until you're no longer in town, look at your location and hit you then. I've never been hit doing guarding the fort for the union flag, but it seems that any time i go out to steer a paddle steamer or mine some silver i magically get hit. At least this way you couldn't choose to be a coward and strike just cause you know someone isn't protected.

I don't think that this is in any way unreasonable, it just puts people on a level playing field. The attacker chooses the location, and the timing, why give them the triple threat of choosing their best equipment as well?
 

DeletedUser

At the very least, you should be able to set your dueling gear, which is what you wear to defend yourself in a duel.

You are able, don't you? Queue your job, put on your defense gear. You don't have it? Buy it. You don't have the money to buy it? Work for it. You have the defense gear but can't wear it as you do the job? Cross your fingers. Don't complain!
 
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