DeletedUser
This is a simple opinionated discussion, not reserved to or limited to anything but what your own opinion is of what happens when you *pass away*, or *Die*.
DeletedUser
You go to heaven or hell. Im sure that Hellstromm and JR will agree with me.
DeletedUser
lol. Biologically, your body decomposes. Your essence, who you were, remains as an imprint in the minds of those who knew you, as well as in anything you may have created (book, art, genes). It is in this manner you extend your life.
I remember my father. In this manner, he continues to live on within me. Both by the genes he passed on, and by the imprint he left within me. I can close my eyes and see him again, converse with him, capture a smile from him. He made an impression on me, and my complex brain stored an image in my mind of what he looked like, and a replication of how he thought and acted. We have, within our minds, a recording (detailed or sketchy) of all the people for whom we've interacted. They are, in some small part, living on through us.
I remember my father. In this manner, he continues to live on within me. Both by the genes he passed on, and by the imprint he left within me. I can close my eyes and see him again, converse with him, capture a smile from him. He made an impression on me, and my complex brain stored an image in my mind of what he looked like, and a replication of how he thought and acted. We have, within our minds, a recording (detailed or sketchy) of all the people for whom we've interacted. They are, in some small part, living on through us.
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DeletedUser
We become what we were before we were born.
DeletedUser
Clever.
That said, I do agree.
We came from the vast nothingness of non-existence and to that place we return.
This life is a one-way ticket to oblivion, so we might as well enjoy the ride.
DeletedUser
But there has to be something. How is it that we're so different compared to all the other animals on this planet? How is it that we can build skyscrapers, pyramids, put ourselves on other planets, all while other animals can't even manage to solve a mathmatical equation?
It seems like we were created for a higher purpose than other animals, so to say that we will have nothing to await us when we die does not seem rewarding enough for our species, a species that has surpassed all other living creatures on this planet and very well much our universe.
I really think that something awaits us when we die. Weather it be ourselves being enveloped into the memories of other, as Hellstromm seems to believe, or going to a place of paradise and glory with our maker.
DeletedUser
There is something. This something is nothing.
Why does there have to be anything more?
We, me, you, and everyone we know are biological.
When we die we decompose and the essence that was us will be gone.
Some indian tribe somewhere believe that one does not truly die until the influence one has had on the world ceases to be.
Much akin to a rock thrown into the water. The rock landing is your life, the ripples in the water what follows. Much like what Hellstromm described, and I share that view.
Ultimately though even the ripples cease.
Yet we are so similar when you examine our DNA.
Evolution.
So it seems to plenty, but we've been over that countless times.
Why do you feel as if you are entitled to something more simply for being born?
Isn't this amazing gift that is life awe-inspiring enough?
There is no maker to return to, no heaven, no hell. No masters, no slaves.
Only men.
Nothingness awaits, and viewing this life as a test of your worthiness of the next is to throw away and diminish this amazing experience that is life.
DeletedUser
Isn't that what most religious views say as well? That we should impact others in our life for the good before we die, in order to achieve peace in the afterlife. What you're saying, if I'm correct, is that by affecting others in you're life you will live on through their memories.
Yet, your view is similar to a religious one. Religious people remember their loved ones occasionally by using prayer. They pray for their departed and just remember them. They remember them, and through doing that the family members and maybe even the passed away member himself achieve peace.
Yes, humans and mudskippers are very similar if you compare our DNA.
Lol. So you're saying that other animals evolve like we do? So sharks that have been around for millions of years, are ultimately smarter than us and secretly have underwater cities that we cant see?
Yes, life is awe inspiring. But your life doesn't last forever, eventually you're going to die. What I stated is that us as a species are much more advanced than anything currently on our planet. Us as a species deserve something when we die. We have a human soul, we don't just rely on instinct.
This seperates us from other animals in a unique way, and because of that I really do think that we will get something after we die, just from being born.
But thinking of life as a test is a great way to extend this amazing experience. If we go around always sad, always wanting to hurt others, not helping anyone or doing anything our experience is going to be plain sucky, and everyone will forget us (or think hatefulness of us) when we pass.
On the other hand, if we stive to be good in our life, to help others, cheer on others and make them happy, to create and not destroy, to achieve common good for other humans, all for trying to achieve paridise, we will make our experience of life great. Others will praise our name when we pass, and we will be remembered throughout history as a great human being.
DeletedUser
Umm, ttr, evolution doesn't follow one path. In the case of man vs apes, all of which came from the same genetic strain, the difference, the factor that allowed Man to be significantly more intelligent than our tool-using ape counterparts was, surprisingly, our jawbone. The skull is comprised of interconnecting bone plates. The muscles that hold those bones together are the jaw muscles. It is the brain cavity, the area inside the skull, that determines how large the brain can grow. Research confirmed the greater the proportional brain mass in apes, the proportionally weaker the jaw. This is because the muscles that control the jaw are also the muscles that keep the skull's bone plates from expanding, and thus preventing the brain from growing.
So, without going into further details, basically Man evolved a greater brain capacity because we had/have significantly weaker jaws than other primates.
Evolution isn't about a destination, it's about the path, the travel, the changes that result during said travel. Creatures evolved based on anomalies during development, triggered by events and/or dependencies, or simply due to an abnormality that resulted in survival advantages over others of their species.
If you oversimplify this ttr, you end up with wrong answers. So, while I would love to get into greater detail about evolution, genetics, anatomy, climate, region, etc and so on, it really is a long, drawn-out discussion that warrants a thread of its own, and even then I would only be able to present a single hair follicle of information on an otherwise 250 million year odyssey.
No, not really. Religions, for the most part, are deity-centric. Philosophical approaches to life, on the other hand, some tend to approach this, others do not. As to prayer, again that is deity-centric. You're confusing actions with occurrences. Remembering is an occurrence. It happens regardless of your intent. It is the nature and the manner of how our brains work, capturing data through replication. Us remembering someone is not an act of prayer, it is an occurrence within your brain. Praying for the departed is merely a conduit-like physical act connecting memory with deity-centric belief.
Um, no. Actually plants are far more complex, genetically. You are mis-equating intelligence to evolution. If you put a man in the water with a hungry shark, the shark will demonstrate itself to be far more advanced, in the water, as a predator. If the best foliage available is the leaves of tall trees, the giraffe would demonstrate itself to be more advanced in obtaining this foliage. Penguins pwn when it comes to Antarctica, lizards rock when it comes to deserts.
Each creature, from whichever region, climate, atmosphere, is more advanced than other creatures for surviving in their specific regions and/or circumstances. Man, on the other hand, has evolved with a brain that allows us to not only use tools, but create tools, and thus we're able to function in all of these environments, as well or better, through artificial means. That doesn't make us more advanced than these other creatures, it merely makes us more adaptive, which in itself is a powerful advantage.
How do you know you have a human soul? Because you say so? Because you think you do? How do you know a dog doesn't have a soul? Because you say so? Because you think they don't? Where's the evidence supporting your assumptions? Right, there is none, because it's a want, a belief, not evidentiary, not verifiable. In other words, fantasy.
This notion that humans deserve a kewpie doll when we die gives me the impression you think we're at some sort of carnival and we deserve some sort of reward for being better, than the other animals on this Earth, at playing this game called, 'Life.' Well, okay, a cute notion... but totally unsupported by anything other than wants and/or belief.
Also, you're wrong. Instinctively we breed, eat, sleep, etc and so on. Granted, our dependency on technology and tool use has blunted our instincts, but we still have them and we still use them. Or did it never occur to you that you can't just walk off a cliff? Why? Because you're instinctively geared to survive, hardwired to live.
Exactly, you played the game so well, so where's your damn kewpie doll!
Well, yeah, that's the general idea behind the search for immortality. But again, history only lasts until it's forgotten. And who and what we were are lost as well. The great idea behind such attempts at immortality has one unfortunate and unassailable obstacle --- we die.
I love the idea that some of you will remember me but, unfortunately, I'll be dead, so what's the point?
Unfortunately, the answer is, there is none. We're a lifeform, like all other lifeforms, geared to reproduce and die. A greater goal is not within our grasp, because, well, any greater goal we may present is merely ephemeral, imaginary, contrived, a means to pacify our restless minds.
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DeletedUser
We will never know what happens after we die... because we will be DEAD, simple as that, and I didn't even have to read those looong posts hell made, lol.(I am sure they were some very intelligent and mind challenging posts...)
DeletedUser
I have seen,read,watched alot of topics on this.
And I've heard alot of opinions,so I'll just count some of them here,and then state my opinion on all of that.
1.Some say that nothing will happen.We decompose,and nothing will happen after that.We will be only carried within the hearts of the people who loved us,and who we loved.
2.Others say that the Bible is right,and that we will go to Heaven or Hell depending on our deeds (good or bad).This is not only for the Bible,there are other explanations of death and life in other sacred books.
3. In Buddhism and Hinduism,there is the reincarnation path.After death,you will reincarnate into something good(if you were "good in life)and you will be a being with a higher consciousness.On the other hand,you will reincarnate into something bad,or even an animal depending on your deeds.Again.I'm getting tired from that word,hehe.
4.By the articles I read and watched in this forum by the doctor Newton,we will go a similar path as the Buddhism and Hinduism says.We will not be greated by religious figures,but by "our spiritual guides"and live on..etc.
Those were only some of the opinions I've heard,there are probably alot more(just as much people,that much believings)
The only hole in every one of them is that we can't prove them.You say that Bible is right just because it is a material thing(a book)and by that it can be proof.I believe that is wrong.
Newtons explanation is in a book/books,but that doesn't mean it is the truth,right?
Same with other two religions I mentioned.
I sometimes like to think a little bit of all of those believings,depending on my mood.
I cannot and will not claim that any believing is true,because we have no evidence of such.
We have,but some are just weak,and others a bit more solid,but the thing is that we cannot rely on any of them.At least,I won't.
It is nice to believe in all of this,but we are all going to face the truth,for we all will die at some point.And the only thing that will remain,even if we are reborn,or are in Heaven or Hell,is just the love of those who we left.We will be carried within their memories and hearts,until they are gone as well,as Hellstromm mentioned.
So we can believe what we want,it's only the matter of time when "the truth"(I mean death by that)hits us.So its better to live a good life for ourselfs,not for any "miracle"or a believing or God or anything.A good friend on this forum that I worked with told me,that improving yourself,and making a better person,is the greatest power.
Because when we stand there,in Heaven,Hell,a new life or just in the nothingness and blackness,all we will have is that.A better person within us.
And I've heard alot of opinions,so I'll just count some of them here,and then state my opinion on all of that.
1.Some say that nothing will happen.We decompose,and nothing will happen after that.We will be only carried within the hearts of the people who loved us,and who we loved.
2.Others say that the Bible is right,and that we will go to Heaven or Hell depending on our deeds (good or bad).This is not only for the Bible,there are other explanations of death and life in other sacred books.
3. In Buddhism and Hinduism,there is the reincarnation path.After death,you will reincarnate into something good(if you were "good in life)and you will be a being with a higher consciousness.On the other hand,you will reincarnate into something bad,or even an animal depending on your deeds.Again.I'm getting tired from that word,hehe.
4.By the articles I read and watched in this forum by the doctor Newton,we will go a similar path as the Buddhism and Hinduism says.We will not be greated by religious figures,but by "our spiritual guides"and live on..etc.
Those were only some of the opinions I've heard,there are probably alot more(just as much people,that much believings)
The only hole in every one of them is that we can't prove them.You say that Bible is right just because it is a material thing(a book)and by that it can be proof.I believe that is wrong.
Newtons explanation is in a book/books,but that doesn't mean it is the truth,right?
Same with other two religions I mentioned.
I sometimes like to think a little bit of all of those believings,depending on my mood.
I cannot and will not claim that any believing is true,because we have no evidence of such.
We have,but some are just weak,and others a bit more solid,but the thing is that we cannot rely on any of them.At least,I won't.
It is nice to believe in all of this,but we are all going to face the truth,for we all will die at some point.And the only thing that will remain,even if we are reborn,or are in Heaven or Hell,is just the love of those who we left.We will be carried within their memories and hearts,until they are gone as well,as Hellstromm mentioned.
So we can believe what we want,it's only the matter of time when "the truth"(I mean death by that)hits us.So its better to live a good life for ourselfs,not for any "miracle"or a believing or God or anything.A good friend on this forum that I worked with told me,that improving yourself,and making a better person,is the greatest power.
Because when we stand there,in Heaven,Hell,a new life or just in the nothingness and blackness,all we will have is that.A better person within us.
DeletedUser
Hellstrom, you've nailed this one. Taken all the points I would have made & put them better.
May as well close this thread, because all that's left are a few postings on the lines" Is this all there is? I can't believe this is all there is, there must be something better because I'm so special and I don't want to die, don't let me die, let there be a palace at the end of the rainbow and I can go and live in it, and look, somebody somewhere made a pencil and that proves we are not like everything else in the universe and we must have the power to live forever.......". No offence.
May as well close this thread, because all that's left are a few postings on the lines" Is this all there is? I can't believe this is all there is, there must be something better because I'm so special and I don't want to die, don't let me die, let there be a palace at the end of the rainbow and I can go and live in it, and look, somebody somewhere made a pencil and that proves we are not like everything else in the universe and we must have the power to live forever.......". No offence.
DeletedUser
What Eli said.
Hellstromm nailed it, and better than I could have.
Hellstromm nailed it, and better than I could have.
DeletedUser
Well, as the saying goes.
"From dust we came, to dust we go"
We came from nothing as someone else pointed out. And we're returning to where we came from.
"From dust we came, to dust we go"
We came from nothing as someone else pointed out. And we're returning to where we came from.
DeletedUser
Hellstromm;524174. It is the brain cavity said:
DeletedUser
Yeah but human brains are tightly pressed together.
DeletedUser
No, it has not been proven. There you go making things up again. You really should see a doctor about that problem.
Obviously you weren't following me at all. Creating a straw man argument seems to be your bread and butter.
I was referring specifically to the evolution of Man, the species, in comparison to other primates, and intentionally did not go into specifics about brain mass per unit volume (i.e., density), glial cells to neuron ratios, cortical surface area, brain mass to body mass ratio, human comparatives, etc and so on. I didn't go into them because that wasn't part of the discussion, and is in fact a distraction from the main point of scientific discovery that I was presenting, which is that the capacity for a species to develop higher intelligence is directly related to the ability for the brain organ to grow over generations (evolution), and that because of the extremely strong jaw muscles of apes, their skull plates remained relatively rigid, thereby essentially stunting the growth and development of ape brains. To understand this, you need to stop thinking one generation and have a modicum of awareness on how evolution works, which is that it is a multi-generational development.
A comparative example would be to think of the exoskeleton of insects, which limited their size, and thus prevented them from becoming a dominant species. I could discuss that with you in more detail in a different thread if you like, but I think we've derailed this one sufficiently, don't you think?
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DeletedUser
I wish it was easy enough to accept that answer, but, it just feels as though there is something much more. There must be an answer to our greatness, but, it's something that you'd have to blindly look at in awe. Humans kick too much ass to just be uber-smart monkeys. Something made us become this smart, and it sure wasn't competition.
I think that we may remain in some way when we die, or better yet perhaps, we have never existed at all, and all around us resets as we are birthed again. We all play an important role, though we don't all choose to fill it. We must live on somehow, maybe.