DeletedUser
so, bottom line is that aside from a part of point 3 everything else was useless and already addressed. thanks for the "very constructive and clever" post.
so, bottom line is that aside from a part of point 3 everything else was useless and already addressed. thanks for the "very constructive and clever" post.
DeletedUser
Well thank you for ignoring my questions and dismissing out of hand any objections anyone has. Once again, if you dismiss everything anyone else has to say we aren't going to listen to you.
DeletedUser
Dim are we playing the same game ?
Why do you think one class is better then another class for any part of the game ?
Adventurers being money makers is total rubbish. Only workers doing Construction is total rubbish. Soldiers defending and Duelers attacking is also total rubbish.
Why ?
CAUSE CLASS MAKES ALMOST ZERO DIFFERENCE IN REGARDS TO WHETHER A PERSON CAN DUEL, MAKE MONEY OR BUILD. And only noobs think otherwise.
If you invite someone to your town and they do building when they are not supposed to it is the Mayor/recruiter's fault for not telling the person ahead of time not to build. If you're inviting in random people then sometimes you get idiots ... it can't be helped.
I do agree that not being able to boot someone until 24 hours has passed is a bad rule and if you want that rule removed then by all means bring that up in a separate topic.
But limiting Construction to Workers only is a bad idea cause you're saying that other classes can not build.
Also with your idea someone who is a Worker but has very low construction could still join your town and waste all the money ... you didn't address that scenario.
Why do you think one class is better then another class for any part of the game ?
Adventurers being money makers is total rubbish. Only workers doing Construction is total rubbish. Soldiers defending and Duelers attacking is also total rubbish.
Why ?
CAUSE CLASS MAKES ALMOST ZERO DIFFERENCE IN REGARDS TO WHETHER A PERSON CAN DUEL, MAKE MONEY OR BUILD. And only noobs think otherwise.
If you invite someone to your town and they do building when they are not supposed to it is the Mayor/recruiter's fault for not telling the person ahead of time not to build. If you're inviting in random people then sometimes you get idiots ... it can't be helped.
I do agree that not being able to boot someone until 24 hours has passed is a bad rule and if you want that rule removed then by all means bring that up in a separate topic.
But limiting Construction to Workers only is a bad idea cause you're saying that other classes can not build.
Also with your idea someone who is a Worker but has very low construction could still join your town and waste all the money ... you didn't address that scenario.
DeletedUser
Uh oh, I think you made Whistlingleaf upset and he is usually pretty easy going. Making friends fast!
Just to keep it on topic...I still hate the idea.
Just to keep it on topic...I still hate the idea.
DeletedUser
look, i know how to play the game, that's why i'm in top 10-20 where i play so don't call me a noob.
a noob is somebody that chooses soldier class and puts everything into construction and builds his town. a noob is a dueler that plays without dueling anybody and just doing missions.
the best builder is somebody who puts everything into construction skill and also has the builder class to benefit from it's advantages.
so if you have adventurers and soldiers building your town then i'm sorry to tell you that you have a bunch of noobs over there
also i shall repeat this again (for the 8th time, i think) the part where classes are restricted to specific roles (builers build duelers attack and soldiers defend) is strictly OPTIONAL.
am i being wrong? last i learned english optional meant that you have a choice and it was the oposite of mandatory. but it seems either you guys learned a different language or i did. tell me which is which so i know if i should go spank my english teacher.
oh yeah one more thing:
or do one more excercise.
get a soldier and a builder. put identical skills and have them build for 100 hours in a row (offcourse taking breaks to rest and regain energy). guess who's gonna build more. this time my bet is on the builder.
so tell me again how class makes almost zero difference? i'm actually curious, perhaps your math is better than mine, but last i checked class made a BIG difference in the long run especially for builders.
true but at least it does limit the chance of something like this happening by a whole lot, doesn't it?
a noob is somebody that chooses soldier class and puts everything into construction and builds his town. a noob is a dueler that plays without dueling anybody and just doing missions.
the best builder is somebody who puts everything into construction skill and also has the builder class to benefit from it's advantages.
so if you have adventurers and soldiers building your town then i'm sorry to tell you that you have a bunch of noobs over there
also i shall repeat this again (for the 8th time, i think) the part where classes are restricted to specific roles (builers build duelers attack and soldiers defend) is strictly OPTIONAL.
am i being wrong? last i learned english optional meant that you have a choice and it was the oposite of mandatory. but it seems either you guys learned a different language or i did. tell me which is which so i know if i should go spank my english teacher.
oh yeah one more thing:
get 2 characters. 1 builder and one soldier put identical weapons and identical skills and do 20 duels where each one attacks 10 times and then is attacked 10 times. guess who's gonna come out better. my bet is on the soldier.
or do one more excercise.
get a soldier and a builder. put identical skills and have them build for 100 hours in a row (offcourse taking breaks to rest and regain energy). guess who's gonna build more. this time my bet is on the builder.
so tell me again how class makes almost zero difference? i'm actually curious, perhaps your math is better than mine, but last i checked class made a BIG difference in the long run especially for builders.
true but at least it does limit the chance of something like this happening by a whole lot, doesn't it?
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DeletedUser
Yeah, when you remove the worker's xp advantage, and getting better jobs sooner because of that xp bonus, and possibly better gear with his banking advantage by making them identical. You might as well add another stipulation that they're both unarmed, which would be equally meaningless. Most importantly, it also depend on who's playing the accounts. No two accounts are identical and no two players are identical so your comparison is meaningless.
You seem to think rank is important...who's #1 on the server where you're top 20? I bet it's a worker.
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DeletedUser
First off Dim, I will repeat again. YOUR PLAN ONLY WORKS IF EVERYONE BUILDS PURE FOR THEIR CHARACTER CLASS.
Secondly, as Elmyr pointed out points mean nothing. My ranked 32 town is whomping the crap out of the ranked #1 town in one of the worlds at the moment. I, as a soldier (ranked in mid 50s at the time) in w3 have beaten duelers in the top 10 of dueling ranks. Duelers with less levels than my character and dueling levels have beaten me.
Points are just a way to mark progression. Has nothing to do with skill or specs. Point*****s may prosper but they rarely win in the end.
Here's an option for you...quit putting down everyone's valid concerns by trying to ram this proposal down our throats. We don't want you telling us how we should spec or who should build or how we should defend ourselves or attack others. Whether it is optional or not we don't want this plan.
You have still ignored all my valid questions. First you say Luap Nor had a valid concern that you need to fix, then you dismiss it. First you say that your idea can't be abused, then you say it would be hard to abuse.
Answer the questions you have been asked without your ego getting in the way. This isn't a personal attack on you, its an attack on your idea because your idea is flawed and your insistence that it isn't is annoying as hell.
Secondly, as Elmyr pointed out points mean nothing. My ranked 32 town is whomping the crap out of the ranked #1 town in one of the worlds at the moment. I, as a soldier (ranked in mid 50s at the time) in w3 have beaten duelers in the top 10 of dueling ranks. Duelers with less levels than my character and dueling levels have beaten me.
Points are just a way to mark progression. Has nothing to do with skill or specs. Point*****s may prosper but they rarely win in the end.
Here's an option for you...quit putting down everyone's valid concerns by trying to ram this proposal down our throats. We don't want you telling us how we should spec or who should build or how we should defend ourselves or attack others. Whether it is optional or not we don't want this plan.
You have still ignored all my valid questions. First you say Luap Nor had a valid concern that you need to fix, then you dismiss it. First you say that your idea can't be abused, then you say it would be hard to abuse.
Answer the questions you have been asked without your ego getting in the way. This isn't a personal attack on you, its an attack on your idea because your idea is flawed and your insistence that it isn't is annoying as hell.
DeletedUser
DeletedUser
fair enough so here's another idea. the fortifications and weapons depot becom available only after you have built all other buildings.
this way the only possible means to abuse would be to build the whole town and then tear it down completely (takes 1 month) then start rebuilding it in the way you desribed), if you can actually call this abuse.
That isn't quite making sense to me. If a town can be torn down completely over the course of a month, how is it the case that the town attack option only exists when the town is fully built? It would have to continue to exist as the town was being destroyed, for a month. Then does it go poof somehow?
DeletedUser5046
Diggo11
Well-Known Member
Are Violette and I your favourites
Yay!
And yes I'd stay away from our rivalry - its the only thing that could make this thread worse 
I think I repped you - well one of your posts anyway. This really sums up the thread.
Was it not always pointless?
+1
Sad isn't it? And to think its supposedly a forum moderator...
That scenario is very limited.
Duellers, Workers and Adventurers all have equal chances in a duel, compared to the single class of Soldier that has an advantage, and even that is limited to the soldier being the defender.
Also the same applies for building. Adventurers, Duellers and Soldiers can all build just as well, its only the Worker that has a mere 5% bonus.
DeletedUser
actually on the worlds that i play we have 2 top 5 like this:
1.soldier
2.soldier
3.adventurer
4.soldier
5.worker
and on the other:
1.adventurer
2.adventurer
3.adventurer
4.worker
5.soldier
actually emlyr is kinda wrong. clothes don't mean anything because in the later stages of the game everybody will have all the best clothes and they will all be able to wear them (because the max level clothes require is 45). so in the long run it comes down to how many points you have invested in your skills and how well you put them. sure an adventurer may get better clothes if he works at silver mining and has lots of money so he might actually beat a soldier but towards the end of the game when they'll both have identical clothes the soldier will beat the crap out of the adventurer.
well since it's all optional then it means nobody is forced to do anything, am i right?
yes luap nor found flaws and i corrected them that's why first i agreed with the abuse and then not. by making the prerequisite buildings available after the town is fully grown the abuse is no longer possible. plain and simple.
luap nor pointed out problems i came up with a solution. this is how the discussion should actually work.
DeletedUser
If an adventurer is specced pure dueler (happens more often than you might think) and goes up against a dueler with the same gear and they are at the same level, using the same gun, it all comes down to how they are specced. Has nothing to do with character class. They both have an even chance. Soldiers only have advantages in dueling when they are on the defending side. So same scenario with a soldier attacking an adventurer then again, its an even chance and depends on specs. But that isn't even the point of your post.
Yes, now you want it to be optional. What is the point then? You say we have to build stuff in order to participate in this plan. Gee...sounds like Forts as Violette pointed out. So no need for your plan.
I believe your correction to Luap's concern was that only maxed towns may be attacked. As Luap stated, what happens when that maxed town has been attacked and is no longer 'maxed'. They are not able to be attacked or to attack then? Sort of makes the entire idea not worth it. It's not only optional now, but you can only attack one town one time and then have to wait until they build back up again to use the system.
You said that the max a town can be damaged is 1000 points and only one time per day. You say it will take a month to completely destroy a town. Is that just a one on one battle? If 3 towns gang up on one town then isn't the defending town able to receive 3000 points of damage in one day? Wouldn't that make the town completely destroyed in under 2 weeks? Five towns versus one town with 5000 points damage done completely destroys a town in 8 days. That is not an absurd scenario. There are lots of towns that have alliances with 3-5 other towns in their area.
You say that 10 soldiers would defend and 10 duelers attack in coordinated efforts. Would this not mean that out of a town of 40 residents half of them have to be online at the same time to take part in this? That is unrealistic. Try to get 20 members online at the same time, then coordinate them. It's a nightmare. Even try to do it with 10. Still a pain in the butt.
So as the mayor of a town I would decide if we are going to attack someone? Most towns are run democratically. I highly doubt 20 people will want to be told what to do and when to do it based on the whim of their mayor.
What if 2 maxed towns go at it. One of the maxed towns has an average membership level of 60, the other at 40. How do you compensate for difference in these levels? Obviously the town with the higher leveled players has a distinct advantage. How do you stop that stronger town from bullying the other town?
Your plan calls for the mayor to choose 10 people from his town in a certain order. Those 10 people are then paired up against the other town based on the order they were chosen. You have just taken those 10 peoples choice away on how they want to play the game and who they want to fight. I for one am not a pawn to be moved about. I'm sure most fighter classes (and all other classes) would feel the same.
Say these 10 soldiers are defending the town against 10 duelers and all 10 soldiers lose. That is 1000 points off the town as I understand it. Possibly the Hotel has just been taken down from level 5 to level 4. Now those 10 soldiers have way less health. They need to rest. They have to rest longer because the hotel has been knocked down. What if the soldier already had low health when they battle began and they get KO'd? Now they are not able to defend their town for 2 days.
What happens when one of these battles starts and your fighters are off doing a job? Are they magically transported back to town, thereby canceling their job? Don't you think that is a bit intrusive on those players? I can see that happening on the defenders side. After all, I'm sure the attacking town won't send a nice telegram to their target saying 'Be prepared, we will be attacking you at 3:00". Will the soldiers/defenders have time to change into their dueling gear?
If your soldiers aren't magically transported back to town and only the people currently in town are able to defend against the attack then how would that be fair? What if there aren't 10 people left in the town? What if the town has 3 builders, 3 adventurers, 2 soldiers and 2 duelers in town as the attack starts? Is that supposed to be our line of defense?
What happens if an attack starts and several of your players you chose to defend your town are currently KO'd. Are they allowed to fight in the battle?
What happens if an attack starts on your town and some of your defense team is currently sleeping in the hotel, or another towns hotel? Are they yanked out of their hotel and magically transported home to defend? What if they paid good money for a foreign hotel and only got to sleep for an hour? Do they get reimbursed?
Can you please answer these questions instead of dismissing or ignoring them. I think these are all valid concerns.
Yes, now you want it to be optional. What is the point then? You say we have to build stuff in order to participate in this plan. Gee...sounds like Forts as Violette pointed out. So no need for your plan.
I believe your correction to Luap's concern was that only maxed towns may be attacked. As Luap stated, what happens when that maxed town has been attacked and is no longer 'maxed'. They are not able to be attacked or to attack then? Sort of makes the entire idea not worth it. It's not only optional now, but you can only attack one town one time and then have to wait until they build back up again to use the system.
You said that the max a town can be damaged is 1000 points and only one time per day. You say it will take a month to completely destroy a town. Is that just a one on one battle? If 3 towns gang up on one town then isn't the defending town able to receive 3000 points of damage in one day? Wouldn't that make the town completely destroyed in under 2 weeks? Five towns versus one town with 5000 points damage done completely destroys a town in 8 days. That is not an absurd scenario. There are lots of towns that have alliances with 3-5 other towns in their area.
You say that 10 soldiers would defend and 10 duelers attack in coordinated efforts. Would this not mean that out of a town of 40 residents half of them have to be online at the same time to take part in this? That is unrealistic. Try to get 20 members online at the same time, then coordinate them. It's a nightmare. Even try to do it with 10. Still a pain in the butt.
So as the mayor of a town I would decide if we are going to attack someone? Most towns are run democratically. I highly doubt 20 people will want to be told what to do and when to do it based on the whim of their mayor.
What if 2 maxed towns go at it. One of the maxed towns has an average membership level of 60, the other at 40. How do you compensate for difference in these levels? Obviously the town with the higher leveled players has a distinct advantage. How do you stop that stronger town from bullying the other town?
Your plan calls for the mayor to choose 10 people from his town in a certain order. Those 10 people are then paired up against the other town based on the order they were chosen. You have just taken those 10 peoples choice away on how they want to play the game and who they want to fight. I for one am not a pawn to be moved about. I'm sure most fighter classes (and all other classes) would feel the same.
Say these 10 soldiers are defending the town against 10 duelers and all 10 soldiers lose. That is 1000 points off the town as I understand it. Possibly the Hotel has just been taken down from level 5 to level 4. Now those 10 soldiers have way less health. They need to rest. They have to rest longer because the hotel has been knocked down. What if the soldier already had low health when they battle began and they get KO'd? Now they are not able to defend their town for 2 days.
What happens when one of these battles starts and your fighters are off doing a job? Are they magically transported back to town, thereby canceling their job? Don't you think that is a bit intrusive on those players? I can see that happening on the defenders side. After all, I'm sure the attacking town won't send a nice telegram to their target saying 'Be prepared, we will be attacking you at 3:00". Will the soldiers/defenders have time to change into their dueling gear?
If your soldiers aren't magically transported back to town and only the people currently in town are able to defend against the attack then how would that be fair? What if there aren't 10 people left in the town? What if the town has 3 builders, 3 adventurers, 2 soldiers and 2 duelers in town as the attack starts? Is that supposed to be our line of defense?
What happens if an attack starts and several of your players you chose to defend your town are currently KO'd. Are they allowed to fight in the battle?
What happens if an attack starts on your town and some of your defense team is currently sleeping in the hotel, or another towns hotel? Are they yanked out of their hotel and magically transported home to defend? What if they paid good money for a foreign hotel and only got to sleep for an hour? Do they get reimbursed?
Can you please answer these questions instead of dismissing or ignoring them. I think these are all valid concerns.
DeletedUser
first half of 2009, so it's 4 months max from now on.
DeletedUser
Unless of course they stop working on it and switch to an entirely different system, i.e. this one, in which case they would be starting from scratch on a new plan which would be implemented even later.
DeletedUser
most of the questions bellow have already been answered, but of course it's hard to read carefully and try to understand when all you can think of is how to refuse this idea. but i'm being nice and i'll tell you the answers once again.
an adventurer that goes against a soldier with identical weapons clothes and specs will lose because of the soldier's advantage in defence.
you missread. i said towns can build the prerequisite buildings after they are maxed. once they build those they can simply attack away. if somebod takes down your hotel then you can still attack cause you have the prerequisite buildings.
well assuming you have 5 angry towns against you you still would have a hard time playing being dead all the time.
however let's take this as a realistic scenario.
if 5 towns gang up on you and attack, chances are they'll also take down your prerequisite buldings in the process. so basically after the first day you can't attack and can't be attacked either. so you just rebuild what they destroyed, except for the prerequisite buildings.
nope they don't have to be online. already pointed that thing. they are put on a list and then the mayor carries out the attack.
it's still a democracy, simply debate with your town members and chose what to attack. everybody can decide but only the mayor can push the button. just like town invitations. everybody can say XXX is worth an invitation bot only the mayor and couselor can invite him.
already mentioned i need to sort that problem. any advice is welcome
actually you haven't taken anything away from them. if they want to participate then they are put on the list. if they don't then you don't put them. and if you put them on the list against their wish then they'll leave.
when you and your townmembers do coordinated attacks on the enemy don't you talk and make plans and those looking for action post in the forum they want to participate? well, this is the same only it's easier cause you don't have to be online.
exactly. and the point is?
also if you choose low health people to defend the town then you're a poor leader and tactician
it's simple. the attacks require only the energy for a duel, their jobs aren't canceled, they don't have to move and their program is not changed at all. oh, and i already mentioned that the defending mayor gets a warning regarding the attack so he can setup the defenses.
read above.
i already pointed that all invalid positions on the attacking/defending list are counted as a loss.
read above
yes i can repeat the answers for those questions.
the real concern here is if you can pay more attention to the thread and not ask things that have already been answered
or there's another option.
they aren't even concerned about that deadline, i mean think about the sheriff, how long has passed since that feature was promised? half a year? more?
an adventurer that goes against a soldier with identical weapons clothes and specs will lose because of the soldier's advantage in defence.
you missread. i said towns can build the prerequisite buildings after they are maxed. once they build those they can simply attack away. if somebod takes down your hotel then you can still attack cause you have the prerequisite buildings.
well assuming you have 5 angry towns against you you still would have a hard time playing being dead all the time.
however let's take this as a realistic scenario.
if 5 towns gang up on you and attack, chances are they'll also take down your prerequisite buldings in the process. so basically after the first day you can't attack and can't be attacked either. so you just rebuild what they destroyed, except for the prerequisite buildings.
nope they don't have to be online. already pointed that thing. they are put on a list and then the mayor carries out the attack.
it's still a democracy, simply debate with your town members and chose what to attack. everybody can decide but only the mayor can push the button. just like town invitations. everybody can say XXX is worth an invitation bot only the mayor and couselor can invite him.
already mentioned i need to sort that problem. any advice is welcome
actually you haven't taken anything away from them. if they want to participate then they are put on the list. if they don't then you don't put them. and if you put them on the list against their wish then they'll leave.
when you and your townmembers do coordinated attacks on the enemy don't you talk and make plans and those looking for action post in the forum they want to participate? well, this is the same only it's easier cause you don't have to be online.
exactly. and the point is?
also if you choose low health people to defend the town then you're a poor leader and tactician
it's simple. the attacks require only the energy for a duel, their jobs aren't canceled, they don't have to move and their program is not changed at all. oh, and i already mentioned that the defending mayor gets a warning regarding the attack so he can setup the defenses.
read above.
i already pointed that all invalid positions on the attacking/defending list are counted as a loss.
read above
yes i can repeat the answers for those questions.
the real concern here is if you can pay more attention to the thread and not ask things that have already been answered
or there's another option.
they aren't even concerned about that deadline, i mean think about the sheriff, how long has passed since that feature was promised? half a year? more?
DeletedUser
Your answers thus far haven't been sufficient to turn the tide of opinion and you are not being "nice", you are being stubborn. You do not have enough (if any) support for this idea on this forum and it will obviously not even go to the vote, let alone pass, here. So let it go.
If you have enough support on your own forum, fine. You guys go and push it to the devs there. Good luck with that.
DeletedUser
i already said i merely came here looking for more opinions in order to improve my suggestion, i didn't come to get attention from the devs or get it suggested to the devs. i only want constructive criticism and suggestions of how to improve the idea.
for example right now there's the problem of one town having lvl 60 duelers and another town having lvl 40 ones. how will the duels take place.
i need help to overcome this impediment.
DeletedUser
You can't overcome it. Unless your idea becomes so limited as to whom a town can attack that it is practically worthless. By the time you make it optional and then towns are popping in and out of being able to be dueled by whether or not their fortifications have been knocked down AND the players levels have to be fairly matched up...its not worth it. Especially when they will be implementing forts in the next 3-4 months.
Sounds like a lot of bloody programming for very little gain.
Not to mention the fact that if the Mayor is in charge of pushing the button and is the one receiving the notification of an impending attack it makes the Mayor practically tied to his computer. What happens if the Mayor isn't online? This is a click and leave type of game. Your idea seems to change that into making one person in the town have to be online a considerable amount of time.
Sounds like a lot of bloody programming for very little gain.
Not to mention the fact that if the Mayor is in charge of pushing the button and is the one receiving the notification of an impending attack it makes the Mayor practically tied to his computer. What happens if the Mayor isn't online? This is a click and leave type of game. Your idea seems to change that into making one person in the town have to be online a considerable amount of time.
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DeletedUser
A little off topic, but the max dimensions for a sig pic here are 500px x 100px.