Trust me im a banker

DeletedUser16008

I few years ago i came across this little gem on the Trust drug & have been keeping an eye out ever since to see how its going.Now at the time it did occur to me all the applications that it may be intended or claimed to be for the use of might be innocent but.......... in reality it would likely be abused by others and used for their own means.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4599299.stm

Seems I was correct to be skeptical.

It appears the trials are going well but look here ... far from it being just tested on social problem people they do a study on guess what ?

Yup investment and trusting your Broker..... :hmf:

That about says it all for me, this drug isnt just being trailed to be used for medical purposes its being looked at as a way to lie and cheat people into a false sense of security.

Its obviously easy to administer and hidden behind medical application benefits. Beware it will be peddled as a social drug pandering to geeks and socially inadequate people. In reality its also likely to be used by all manner of crooks & business.... & don't tell me im paranoid they just did a trail based specifically on investment & fraud.

Each trail subject were asked to contribute money to a human trustee, with the understanding that the trustee would invest the money and decide whether to return the profits, or betray the subject's trust by keeping the profit.
The subjects also received doses of oxytocin or a placebo via a nasal spray.
After investing, the participants were given feedback on the trustees. When their trust was abused, the placebo group became less willing to invest. But the players who had been given oxytocin continued to trust their money with a broker.
"We can see that oxytocin has a very powerful effect," said Dr Baumgartner.
"The subjects who received oxytocin demonstrated no change in their trust behaviour, even though they were informed that their trust was not honoured in roughly 50% of cases."
In a second game, where the human trustees were replaced by a computer which gave random returns, the hormone made no difference to the players' investment behaviour.
"It appears that oxytocin affects social responses specifically related to trust," Dr Baumgartner said.

Further details here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7412438.stm
 

DeletedUser

That's rather scary...not that I don't trust them to use it wisely! :unsure: (I'm not getting in line for a prescription)
 

DeletedUser9470

can anyone trust a politician/banker/lawyer/anyone anyway?
rule number one: never trust anyone, not even your own family.
 

DeletedUser16008

-Neo- said:
can anyone trust a politician/banker/lawyer/anyone anyway?
rule number one: never trust anyone, not even your own family.
Click to expand...

True, however we could well do without artificial trust hormones being sprayed around. Hell every salesman would use it, partners would be dumping it in coffee, "no honey I was working all weekend honest, that's not lipstick its spilt beetroot juice"
 
nashy19

nashy19

Nashy (as himself)
Wouldn't it be much easier to give someone a "false sense of security" by being nice to them?

How much difference is there between the amount of oxytocin released from a hug and the amount you can get from an injection?
 

DeletedUser16008

nashy19 said:
Wouldn't it be much easier to give someone a "false sense of security" by being nice to them?

How much difference is there between the amount of oxytocin released from a hug and the amount you can get from an injection?
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Dunno Nashy but I know this, salesman etc are already trained at giving a false sense of security, don't think hugging the punter is a widely accepted tactic but its a thought. Plus what about all those hit with an ugly stick or not great at the being nice part... maybe it dosnt come natural sure a huge % would take an injection or pill to raise that bonus prospect .... I think its the person thats buying that has to be given this anyway not the seller but i can imagine plenty of delivery systems to unsuspecting mugs punters.

A nice colone or spray on a door to door salesman, maybe odourless spray once in the house while pitching. The marketing & sales potential is massive if you could improve customer trust i cant even imagine the profits boost that would be worth to some companies.

Im kinda only being tongue in cheek here atm but if it is conclusive and goes to production I have no doubt what would/could be the uses and abuses.
 

DeletedUser9470

im not that worried about the product as its a commonly used product in agriculture for example, but the ethics, using products to get people to trust you without them even knowing, are absolutely awful and should be condemned.
 

DeletedUser

Oh geez seriously, and how do you, pray tell, they get millions of people to take a drug intended for treatment of autism?

See, that's the problem with so many of these crackpot conspiracy theories --- reality. Reality tends to throw a wrench into b.s.
 

DeletedUser16008

Hellstromm said:
Oh geez seriously, and how do you, pray tell, they get millions of people to take a drug intended for treatment of autism?

See, that's the problem with so many of these crackpot conspiracy theories --- reality. Reality tends to throw a wrench into b.s.
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Y'know Hells doing a study about an autism intended product by using it on regular people with the trail experiment I linked to is no conspiracy theory ... I didnt make up the trial the doctors/scientist concerned did. The very fact its been already used in this fashion should make you stop and think. Instead you come out with the usual rhetoric of conspiracy nut thing

You dont need to get people to take it voluntarily although thats the best way, you find ways to introduce it to an environment conducive to your wishes.. business is very good at that sort of thing. I simply don't care really how more the fact that if there is a trust drug .... it WILL be abused by business and probably government too. Why ? because is would be worth millions & they can thats why.

I am beginning to think your a pawn of the establishment, you have very good sense most of the time but you trust far too much in innocence and jump on others who maybe see caution needed, sure its all in the name of autism and nothing else, even when theres a suspect study involved. :blink:

Alarm bells should ring there with you the two arnt similar ... business and autism hmmmm.

I dont get you sometimes m8 i really dont.
 

DeletedUser

Victor, these people (a handful of 87, which is a very small test group btw, and not substantial enough to make a conclusions, only substantial enough to pose results to obtain additional grants; add to this, it was a non-controlled study and thus incredibly unreliable) volunteered to participate in a study.

You're (and the "professorial" group at Iowa State, which I could write a lot about some of them btw, particularly one crackpot "ethicist") going from that and jumping to the conclusion politicians may decide to sway votes by spraying a buttload of oxytocin into the air of a rally to increase their votes?!?

Besides the obvious, which is that the vast majority of voters rarely participate in rallies, it also demonstrates a gross lack of understanding on how oxytocin "alledly" works. In order to obtain the "alleged" effects, oxytocin needs to be administered regularly, intravenously, and in not small doses.

Look, this series of social paranoias are spread by conspiracy theorists and further fostered by folks like the Iowa State ethicist I earlier mentioned. It's bad enough when people who don't know any better start tossing out this crap, it's unacceptable when people with credentials feed the flames without bothering to point out the gross improbability.

And here it is --- if it is discovered that a politician released oxytocin into the air at a rally, you can be sure he would be prosecuted. And, considering the footprints & dependencies required to perform such an action, you can be sure he would be caught. And what for? On a "maybe" that it will increase their votes for all the people that show up to their rally, which essentially entails all those who intended to vote for him in the first place?!? C'mon, seriously, of those few here that have attended a political rally (and not a high school or college student council rally), I'm sure it was to support your candidate.

When we start getting "Smellivisions" in every home, we can return to this joke of a conspiracy theory (assuming they figured out how to get it to work intranasally). Oh, and Victor, you don't have to "get me," you just have to think it through.
 
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DeletedUser

Hmm, I figured it might be helpful to indicate, just in case Neo wants to get cozy with his cows, presently the only "marginally" effective means of administering oxytocin is intravenously (however, even that is limited by the brain/blood barrier). Intranasal use is a dime-store gimmick, not effective. It also cannot be ingested, as it breaks down in the stomach within 3 minutes.

Yet one more obstacle to this conspiracy theory.
 

DeletedUser9470

Hellstromm said:
Hmm, I figured it might be helpful to indicate, just in case Neo wants to get cozy with his cows, presently the only "marginally" effective means of administering oxytocin is intravenously (however, even that is limited by the brain/blood barrier). Intranasal use is a dime-store gimmick, not effective. It also cannot be ingested, as it breaks down in the stomach within 3 minutes.

Yet one more obstacle to this conspiracy theory.
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i think you miss the point.
the debate is not as such a debate on the feasibility of any of this happening, but more about the fact that some sick dude has had such an obscene idea in the first place.
 

DeletedUser

Omg, you're right!!! How could I have failed to see the slippery slope fallacy?!?! We're doomed because someone thought of it!

*smirk*
 

DeletedUser

I can see the practical use of such a drug in extreme cases of autism, however even in a case such as that it smacks of people simply not wanting to deal with the reality of the disorder itself. To put an autistic individual through a series of injections just so they will be more trusting is no better than the parent who doses their kid with a bunch of NyQuil to make them go to sleep. I'm pretty sure most would agree that we drug kids/adults enough these days for their "problems". I'd far rather see more people educated about Autism and how the separate scales of the spectrum work than see even more kids out there drugged into a placid existence.

As for the risk of it being used by government, etc. to control the masses, that is always a possibility. It would in effect remove human rights entirely. However, just to be the devil's advocate here, let's consider the other effect such an action could bring about. A country that implicitly trusts its government could be easily manipulated yes. However, were Oxytocin ever made into a viable drug through environmental administration, it could also have the effect of nipping war in the assets without a shot being fired. As I said, just playing devil's advocate, but the use of a "trust drug" administered through air/water/etc. could have one heck of a global impact and no one would even know. (Not saying it will happen, just tossing that in there)
 

DeletedUser15057

CheekyTigress said:
I can see the practical use of such a drug in extreme cases of autism, however even in a case such as that it smacks of people simply not wanting to deal with the reality of the disorder itself. To put an autistic individual through a series of injections just so they will be more trusting is no better than the parent who doses their kid with a bunch of NyQuil to make them go to sleep. I'm pretty sure most would agree that we drug kids/adults enough these days for their "problems". I'd far rather see more people educated about Autism and how the separate scales of the spectrum work than see even more kids out there drugged into a placid existence.

As for the risk of it being used by government, etc. to control the masses, that is always a possibility. It would in effect remove human rights entirely. However, just to be the devil's advocate here, let's consider the other effect such an action could bring about. A country that implicitly trusts its government could be easily manipulated yes. However, were Oxytocin ever made into a viable drug through environmental administration, it could also have the effect of nipping war in the assets without a shot being fired. As I said, just playing devil's advocate, but the use of a "trust drug" administered through air/water/etc. could have one heck of a global impact and no one would even know. (Not saying it will happen, just tossing that in there)
Click to expand...

Heck that could mean the end of extremist religious fervor and control of the masses by the church - and we can't have that now!!!

Or have the religious extremists already been covertly administering the drug en-masse over the years without our knowing?? :hmf:
 
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