Seven Days: Literally or Figuratively?

[DeletedUser]

In Genesis 1, God creates animals and afterwards, man.
In Genesis 2, God creates man first and then the animals.

Wriggle away, my friend.

You need to read it again.

19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

It referred to God crating the animals before and then later he brought them to Adam to be named.

 

[DeletedUser]

As far as making people nicer, what is the alternative? Is it better to say we are all animals and survival of the fittest is the only law that matters? What sort of life does that lead to?

Btw - I made the point that religion may have some utility outside the scientific arena and you still have to try to make a fight out of it.
Lame.
And a little bit sad.

 

[DeletedUser]

With all due respect Caveman, are you daft, has the 65+ millions years you've spent in caves addled your mind? I mean, this is a courteous and respectful question, because I'm quite perplexed how you could quote EXACTLY what disputes your assertions and then be completely blind to the fact you did such:

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. ~ Genesis 1:14-18​

Even if you try and argue around the clear indication of night and day, there really is no distorting what is clearly presented in Genesis 1:14-18

Opportunistic cognitive dissonance is what you're presenting in your argument and I'm quite frankly dragging my jaw on the ground, amazed at the silliness of your barely considered rebuttal. But, by all means edumacate me on the deep and enlightening perspective that clearly can only be obtained from gross denial of facts and evidence.

*bated breath*

 

[DeletedUser]

You need to read it again.

19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

It referred to God crating the animals before and then later he brought them to Adam to be named.

No - YOU need to read it again!

18 Then the Lord God said, “It’s not good that the human is alone. I will make him a helper that is perfect for him.” 19 So the Lord God formed from the fertile land all the wild animals and all the birds

 

[DeletedUser30834]

A day is the length of time it takes the earth to spin on its axis relative to the rest of the universe. You can't have a day before you have a spinning earth.
Biblical apologists deal with this by making God's 'day' of indefinite length ("for God, the blink of an eye is a thousand years....." yadda yadda yadda).
But an elastic unit is not unit at all. It's like me saying "the universe is 14.256 polocots old", and when you ask "how long is a polocot?", I say "depends.....". Not very helpful.
Knowing how the universe began would not make people any nicer or happier, which is the purpose of faith. The cheap science got tacked into the mix and has been a pointless distraction ever since.

Actuallly, the word that "day" is translated from is yom or yowm. The meaning of the word is not just a day as in 24 hours period of time. Here is a list of the accepted meanings for it when referring to the bible.
1) day, time, year
a) day (as opposed to night)
b) day (24 hour period)
1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
2) as a division of time
a) a working day, a day's journey
c) days, lifetime (pl.)
d) time, period (general)
e) year
f) temporal references
1) today
2) yesterday
3) tomorrow

So when people claim day might not actually be a day in today's 24 hour understanding, they aren't off in the least. This doesn't even take into considerations legitimate differences in the time of day like the earth not spinning or spinning slower then it does now. But yowm has been translated to mean all those definitions within the bible.

 

[DeletedUser]

Actuallly, the word that "day" is translated from is yom or yowm. The meaning of the word is not just a day as in 24 hours period of time. Here is a list of the accepted meanings for it when referring to the bible.
1) day, time, year
a) day (as opposed to night)
b) day (24 hour period)
1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
2) as a division of time
a) a working day, a day's journey
c) days, lifetime (pl.)
d) time, period (general)
e) year
f) temporal references
1) today
2) yesterday
3) tomorrow

So when people claim day might not actually be a day in today's 24 hour understanding, they aren't off in the least. This doesn't even take into considerations legitimate differences in the time of day like the earth not spinning or spinning slower then it does now. But yowm has been translated to mean all those definitions within the bible.

ok - let's just agree that it was 7 polocots, and I'll fill you in on the definition in... oh ...a couple of polocots' time.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well Sumdum did some good research (well done sir) on the meanings of day as the ancients used it (and even had the correct Hebrew word too) so do I really need to keep edumacating?

There really isn't any contradiction here. Especially when you remember the verse from 2nd Peter that says to God a day is as a thousand years and visa versa.

Note: There is Day as in daytime and Day as in a span of specific time, be it 24 hours or some other span as in "he was very strong in his "day" or "back in the day...".

Oh and its SIX polocots! God rested on the Seventh, which the Sabbath.

Someone else pointed out that science actually bears out the Creation account's sequence. The spot on Mt. Sinai where Moses spoke with God and received The Tablets has also been identified scientifically using the Biblical accts to locate it and scientifically verifying it as the most likely explanation for the evidence found at the site.

No wriggling here, Eli. Chapter one describes the sequence then in Chapter 2 we get some of the "how to".

Btw. Do you know how Adam came up with Woman for a name?
Well God brought her to Adam (it was his job to name everything) and he took one look and exclaimed WHOA MAN! They shortened it to Woman.
And now you know..................................the rest of the story.

Later that night Adam told Eve, "better stand back honey, I don't how big this thing gets."

 

[DeletedUser]

Hehe, I've heard the "Yom" argument a thousand times, and it's a ruse in argument.

The attention is presented to focus on the word, "yom," which generally does refer to a day but yes can refer to other periods of time. But, in viewing this issue with blinders, apologetics ignore all other aspects of what is presented in Genesis that clearly denotes "yom" as referring to a 24 hour period.

Interestingly, I thought I was clear when I posed Genesis 1:14-18, but perhaps I'm tasked to point it out in greater detail:

It is indicated He made the firmament of the heaven to "divide" the day from the night, for the express purpose serving as signs, to denote seasons, days, and years. It clearly points out day from night, clearly indicates what separates and differentiates day from night, clearly makes a point of indicating day is day, night is night, and it is these that determines a full day, which en masse' encompasses a year -- our year, how we interpret and understand years, days, and seasons, because He created them expressly to serve as signs so that we can differentiate and measure time.

And in this, Genesis repeatedly present a "day and a night" to define a "yom." Thus, in this particular understanding, in the express presentation and clarification as to what constitutes a "yom" in Genesis, it is made quite clear that it refers to a day and a night. This day and a night is made quite clear to be the same day and night as we are learned to understand, based on the clear statements, in English or Hebrew, that He specifically divided day from night and setup all of this to create signs that help us to differentiate one day from the next.

Now, at the widest interpretation of this, we could be sitting on the north or south pole, and our day and night could be a year. But, seriously... even six years of creation doesn't add up to 4.55 billion years, and certainly doesn't add up to 14 billion years.

Nice try homey.

 

[DeletedUser]

Oh and its SIX polocots! God rested on the Seventh, which the Sabbath.

Well, initially I put "six" for I am a stickler for correctness, but then I changed it to "seven" (note the edit).
Why?
Because that is the subject of the thread, which we both forgot but I remembered first.
You have to get up pretty early in the morning to catch me out btw.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well, I still don't understand why we're stuck on this one point.

I maintain that the Creation acct. is speaking figuratively, especially in regards to the span of time. I will continue to fall back on this verse;

2 Peter 3:8
Nevertheless, do not let this one fact escape you, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.

It was GOD doing the creating after all and time is meaningless to Him. 24 hours or 24 billion years is the same thing to Him and merely a blink of an eye.

Lets try to remember too that the Torah (Where our Old Testament comes from) was written down when 1 billion was a completely incomprehensible number to the people of that um, "day".

Modern science has well proven that Earth is much older than 6000 years, but that still does not sway me from my Faith or cause my to say the Bible is a lie. There are simply too many examples of the Bible and science being in complete agreement for that.

Here is an article I found (out of thousands that I have yet to scan through). Maybe someone will find it interesting reading.
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

 

[DeletedUser]

The 6000 year-age of the earth is a relatively recent notion.
It begain, I think, with Bishop Ussher, who added the ages of the patriarchs to deduce the exact year, month and DAY of the completion of the creation. He came up with somewhere around 4004 BC [E&OE, feel free to correct - I work from hazy memory].
Such is the unreason surrounding these matters that some Christians nowadays will defend his conclusion as a core tenet of their faith, even though there were Christians for one and a half millenia before this idea ever came into being.

 

[DeletedUser]

I will continue to fall back on this verse;

2 Peter 3:8
Nevertheless, do not let this one fact escape you, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.
​

Indeed, you continue to fall back on the statement from Peter, which are in his own words and are his own musings, over those of what was allegedly presented directly from God (seeing as He was the only one around to tell the tale of Genesis). That is your personal error.

Lets try to remember too that the Torah (Where our Old Testament comes from) was written down when 1 billion was a completely incomprehensible number to the people of that um, "day".

Hmm, you really need to stop making stuff up. Archimedes posed equations exceeding 10 to the 63rd power. Tablets as early as 2000 b.c. have been found demonstrating geometry, algebra, and trigonometry.

Modern science has well proven that Earth is much older than 6000 years, but that still does not sway me from my Faith or cause my to say the Bible is a lie. There are simply too many examples of the Bible and science being in complete agreement for that.

lol, cute. Too many examples of the Bible and science being in agreement? Pray tell present your findings. While you're at it, perhaps you would like to address the multitude of contradictions in the Bible that give credence to the notion some parts of the Bible may indeed be false (simple logic, in that two conflicting passages cannot both be right). Considering, as well, the Bible was written by Men, and not by Him, it is indeed reasonable to assume falsifications and/or misrepresentations are present. In fact, the multitude of mistransliterations, the various inconsistent writings in different Bibles stands as evidence that "lies" are indeed existing in these books, precisely because Man wrote them -- all.

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

Yeah, I read that crap before. I think the second sentence says it all -- "We are not aware of any scientific evidence that contradicts the Bible."

The writer's lack of knowledge, lack of "awareness" is not an affirmation of the credibility of the Bible. This same statement is found in your earlier posts, your posturings. If you wish to examine scientific evidence that contradicts the Bible (which I'm pretty sure you're not wishing such and instead would prefer to remain ignorant so as not to have to resort to cognitive dissonance), how about sticking with just showing how the parts I quoted, Genesis, presents a multitude of scientific errors:

Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. ~ Genesis 1:2​

Genesis 1:2-3 shows water existed before light was created. Scientific evidence has firmly determined that "water" resulted, on Earth, after light (radiation), not before. This is understood for many reasons, not the least of which is that the Earth was a magmatic mass, seething with fission and fusion interactions, too hot to handle and obviously thrusting out a buttload of --- radiation --- including that nasty stuff called visible electromagnetic radiation (light). And while you may attempt to argue that water existed shortly after the Big Bang, that itself was the result of nuclear synthesis, which indicates light occurred before water. Again, so much meat on this for me to chew on, but I'll leave it at that and move to another Genesis 1 passage.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” ~ Genesis 1:3-5​

This is completely in error and a gross oversimplification. Light is not divided or separate from darkness. Darkness is merely the absence of visible radiation, but even night is not devoid of radiation, nor even devoid of visible radiation. In fact, if you were to stand in the darkness for a period of time, your eyes will adjust and you will be able to see within that darkness, your iris will expand allowing for your eyes to capture more visible radiation. Are we to now argue that when one closes his eyes, he is now "in" darkness? No, of course not. He could stand in a well lit room and yet see nothing with his eyes covered. The dichotomy of this presentation is simplistic at best. The thing is, simple is not correct, particularly not when referring to the construct of light being electromagnetic radiation which travels at a wavelength that our ocular nerves can process to determine spatial acuity, refraction, etc. And then we deal with that biting passage at the end, which states that light is day and darkness is night, which we know to be yet another oversimplification and simply --- wrong.

Also, it is quite obvious that light is a form of radiation, which is neither good nor bad, can cause benefits and harm. This "dichotomic humanizing" of light (and, in its inference, dark) is an inaccurate statement, one borne of ignorance.

And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. God called the vault “sky.” ~ Genesis 1:6-7​

There's plenty more written on this, but it's sufficient to point out that the Bible argues a firmament (vault) separates the waters above from the waters below, essentially stating that they believed the "blue" above was water and that we lived in a reservoir of sorts, a protected layer between two oceans. This of course we know to be, scientifically, poppycock.

And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. ~ Genesis 1:14-18​

Well this is a bit of fun. So what we have here is an indication that the stars, the Sun, and the Moon lay within the vault, between the two oceans. That the "blue" above being one ocean, the stars, Sun, and Moon being closer than that blue sky, the "ocean above." Plus we have the statement clearly indicating that the stars, the Sun, and the moon were created "after" the Earth, which we know to be incorrect.

And then we have the error presented in Genesis 1:20-25, which indicates that on the 5th day God created the fish and the birds, while on the 6th day God create land animals. Ample evidence of a scientific nature indicates "birds" came after land animals, not before.

And one more, then I'll drop the subject of pwning Caveman:

Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” ~ Genesis 1:29-30​

Now we all know that "every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it" is not edible, cannot be consumed. Thus the claim that it is all "yours for food" is simply false. Same goes with all creatures, some of which are poisonous for us to even attempt to consume, like the Taricha granulosa, or rough-skinned newt. So, again, another false statement.

And here's my point Caveman: Using "only" one section of one book in the Bible, I demonstrated a multitude of scientific errors, inconsistencies, and even obvious falsehoods (they knew even then that not all fruits were edible). So, have fun with your ontological arguments, but please refrain from trying to justify your belief system with claims of scientific validity.

In other words, lie to yourself all you want but please refrain from lying to everyone else. Science does not support the Bible and it doesn't participate in determining whether God exists or is a figment of your imagination.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

Whoaa there people. Back on track

All this hinges on a simple book, its generally attributed to Moses putting this down in writing so the plebs of the time could make sense of it.

This is not some traceable account but the writings based on visions given to one man, possibly Adam, indeed we are led to believe from some that the entire writing of genesis it is not even Moses writings but possibly taken from other earlier tablets by Adam, Noah, Shem, Ham & Japheth etc. And put into a compilation by Moses.

How this has infected the entire world and the majority of religions I won't even begin to try and understand but nearly every explanation and serious investigation by various groups be it Hebrew scholars or whatever Genesis 1 is attributed directly to God.Ok fine so far so good.

This is based on a firm belief that the six days of creation are literal 24-hour days, as the clear phraseology of the Bible states. No mystery polocots but a clear 24 hr day and night period.

I looked long and hard at this years ago for to me the opening basis of believing in god all rests on Genesis 1

In this first tablet, there’s no author’s name in that closing verse as there is in others. Who could have personal knowledge of what was written there ? Only the Creator Himself. God could have written this with his own fingers. It’s just as possible that He orally dictated it to Adam. At that same time He might have been using this as a teaching tool, showing Adam how to write, and maybe this served as Adam’s “practice slate.” Whatever the mode, God was the personal author of that first tablet, the actual creation account.

The basic meaning of toledoth, according to Gesenius, is “family history ... or the story of their origins.” For Tablet #1, the “family” consists of the entire cosmos and its occupants. So this tablet might be thought of as “the family history of the entire cosmos and its plants and animals.”

It is therefore hard to argue a timeframe here other than what is actually written. You must accept the 24 hour timeframe and the following 6 - 7 days if you choose to believe in the rest of the bible and ergo God. To see this we must look at the Hebew and correct translation not western versions.

Genesis Chapter 1 בְּרֵאשִׁית

א בְּרֵאשִׁית, בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים, אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם, וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ. 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

ב וְהָאָרֶץ, הָיְתָה תֹהוּ וָבֹהוּ, וְחֹשֶׁךְ, עַל-פְּנֵי תְהוֹם; וְרוּחַ אֱלֹהִים, מְרַחֶפֶת עַל-פְּנֵי הַמָּיִם. 2 Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters.

The earth is said to be "unformed" and yet covered with water so before light there was water. It is right here for me it all falls down for many reasons but thats another story so lets continue.

ג וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים, יְהִי אוֹר; וַיְהִי-אוֹר. 3 And God said: 'Let there be light.' And there was light.

ד וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים אֶת-הָאוֹר, כִּי-טוֹב; וַיַּבְדֵּל אֱלֹהִים, בֵּין הָאוֹר וּבֵין הַחֹשֶׁךְ. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness.

ה וַיִּקְרָא אֱלֹהִים לָאוֹר יוֹם, וְלַחֹשֶׁךְ קָרָא לָיְלָה; וַיְהִי-עֶרֶב וַיְהִי-בֹקֶר, יוֹם אֶחָד. {פ} 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
It is right here we see the very first reference to a night and day period. It is literal and translated as one day or day one.....Prior to this there is no time period, you can happily talk about millennia and it does not discredit Genesis up until evening and morning was formed.

ו וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים, יְהִי רָקִיעַ בְּתוֹךְ הַמָּיִם, וִיהִי מַבְדִּיל, בֵּין מַיִם לָמָיִם. 6 And God said: 'Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.'
ז וַיַּעַשׂ אֱלֹהִים, אֶת-הָרָקִיעַ, וַיַּבְדֵּל בֵּין הַמַּיִם אֲשֶׁר מִתַּחַת לָרָקִיעַ, וּבֵין הַמַּיִם אֲשֶׁר מֵעַל לָרָקִיעַ; וַיְהִי-כֵן. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.
ח וַיִּקְרָא אֱלֹהִים לָרָקִיעַ, שָׁמָיִם; וַיְהִי-עֶרֶב וַיְהִי-בֹקֶר, יוֹם שֵׁנִי. {פ} 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
Second reference to the night and day period and declaring a second day or day two

ט וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים, יִקָּווּ הַמַּיִם מִתַּחַת הַשָּׁמַיִם אֶל-מָקוֹם אֶחָד, וְתֵרָאֶה, הַיַּבָּשָׁה; וַיְהִי-כֵן. 9 And God said: 'Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear.' And it was so.
י וַיִּקְרָא אֱלֹהִים לַיַּבָּשָׁה אֶרֶץ, וּלְמִקְוֵה הַמַּיִם קָרָא יַמִּים; וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים, כִּי-טוֹב. 10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters called He Seas; and God saw that it was good.
יא וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים, תַּדְשֵׁא הָאָרֶץ דֶּשֶׁא עֵשֶׂב מַזְרִיעַ זֶרַע, עֵץ פְּרִי עֹשֶׂה פְּרִי לְמִינוֹ, אֲשֶׁר זַרְעוֹ-בוֹ עַל-הָאָרֶץ; וַיְהִי-כֵן. 11 And God said: 'Let the earth put forth grass, herb yielding seed, and fruit-tree bearing fruit after its kind, wherein is the seed thereof, upon the earth.' And it was so.
יב וַתּוֹצֵא הָאָרֶץ דֶּשֶׁא עֵשֶׂב מַזְרִיעַ זֶרַע, לְמִינֵהוּ, וְעֵץ עֹשֶׂה-פְּרִי אֲשֶׁר זַרְעוֹ-בוֹ, לְמִינֵהוּ; וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים, כִּי-טוֹב. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, herb yielding seed after its kind, and tree bearing fruit, wherein is the seed thereof, after its kind; and God saw that it was good.
יג וַיְהִי-עֶרֶב וַיְהִי-בֹקֶר, יוֹם שְׁלִישִׁי. {פ} 13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.
third night and day period or day three

יד וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים, יְהִי מְאֹרֹת בִּרְקִיעַ הַשָּׁמַיִם, לְהַבְדִּיל, בֵּין הַיּוֹם וּבֵין הַלָּיְלָה; וְהָיוּ לְאֹתֹת וּלְמוֹעֲדִים, וּלְיָמִים וְשָׁנִים. 14 And God said: 'Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years;
טו וְהָיוּ לִמְאוֹרֹת בִּרְקִיעַ הַשָּׁמַיִם, לְהָאִיר עַל-הָאָרֶץ; וַיְהִי-כֵן. 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth.' And it was so.
טז וַיַּעַשׂ אֱלֹהִים, אֶת-שְׁנֵי הַמְּאֹרֹת הַגְּדֹלִים: אֶת-הַמָּאוֹר הַגָּדֹל, לְמֶמְשֶׁלֶת הַיּוֹם, וְאֶת-הַמָּאוֹר הַקָּטֹן לְמֶמְשֶׁלֶת הַלַּיְלָה, וְאֵת הַכּוֹכָבִים. 16 And God made the two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night; and the stars.
יז וַיִּתֵּן אֹתָם אֱלֹהִים, בִּרְקִיעַ הַשָּׁמָיִם, לְהָאִיר, עַל-הָאָרֶץ. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
יח וְלִמְשֹׁל, בַּיּוֹם וּבַלַּיְלָה, וּלְהַבְדִּיל, בֵּין הָאוֹר וּבֵין הַחֹשֶׁךְ; וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים, כִּי-טוֹב. 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good.
יט וַיְהִי-עֶרֶב וַיְהִי-בֹקֶר, יוֹם רְבִיעִי. {פ} 19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.
Fourth and first EXACT 24 hr period or day four

כ וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים--יִשְׁרְצוּ הַמַּיִם, שֶׁרֶץ נֶפֶשׁ חַיָּה; וְעוֹף יְעוֹפֵף עַל-הָאָרֶץ, עַל-פְּנֵי רְקִיעַ הַשָּׁמָיִם. 20 And God said: 'Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let fowl fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.'
כא וַיִּבְרָא אֱלֹהִים, אֶת-הַתַּנִּינִם הַגְּדֹלִים; וְאֵת כָּל-נֶפֶשׁ הַחַיָּה הָרֹמֶשֶׂת אֲשֶׁר שָׁרְצוּ הַמַּיִם לְמִינֵהֶם, וְאֵת כָּל-עוֹף כָּנָף לְמִינֵהוּ, וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים, כִּי-טוֹב. 21 And God created the great sea-monsters, and every living creature that creepeth, wherewith the waters swarmed, after its kind, and every winged fowl after its kind; and God saw that it was good.
כב וַיְבָרֶךְ אֹתָם אֱלֹהִים, לֵאמֹר: פְּרוּ וּרְבוּ, וּמִלְאוּ אֶת-הַמַּיִם בַּיַּמִּים, וְהָעוֹף, יִרֶב בָּאָרֶץ. 22 And God blessed them, saying: 'Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.'
כג וַיְהִי-עֶרֶב וַיְהִי-בֹקֶר, יוֹם חֲמִישִׁי. {פ} 23 And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.
Fifth 24 hr period or day five

כד וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים, תּוֹצֵא הָאָרֶץ נֶפֶשׁ חַיָּה לְמִינָהּ, בְּהֵמָה וָרֶמֶשׂ וְחַיְתוֹ-אֶרֶץ, לְמִינָהּ; וַיְהִי-כֵן. 24 And God said: 'Let the earth bring forth the living creature after its kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after its kind.' And it was so.
כה וַיַּעַשׂ אֱלֹהִים אֶת-חַיַּת הָאָרֶץ לְמִינָהּ, וְאֶת-הַבְּהֵמָה לְמִינָהּ, וְאֵת כָּל-רֶמֶשׂ הָאֲדָמָה, לְמִינֵהוּ; וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים, כִּי-טוֹב. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after its kind, and the cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.
כו וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים, נַעֲשֶׂה אָדָם בְּצַלְמֵנוּ כִּדְמוּתֵנוּ; וְיִרְדּוּ בִדְגַת הַיָּם וּבְעוֹף הַשָּׁמַיִם, וּבַבְּהֵמָה וּבְכָל-הָאָרֶץ, וּבְכָל-הָרֶמֶשׂ, הָרֹמֵשׂ עַל-הָאָרֶץ. 26 And God said: 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.'
כז וַיִּבְרָא אֱלֹהִים אֶת-הָאָדָם בְּצַלְמוֹ, בְּצֶלֶם אֱלֹהִים בָּרָא אֹתוֹ: זָכָר וּנְקֵבָה, בָּרָא אֹתָם. 27 And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
כח וַיְבָרֶךְ אֹתָם, אֱלֹהִים, וַיֹּאמֶר לָהֶם אֱלֹהִים פְּרוּ וּרְבוּ וּמִלְאוּ אֶת-הָאָרֶץ, וְכִבְשֻׁהָ; וּרְדוּ בִּדְגַת הַיָּם, וּבְעוֹף הַשָּׁמַיִם, וּבְכָל-חַיָּה, הָרֹמֶשֶׂת עַל-הָאָרֶץ. 28 And God blessed them; and God said unto them: 'Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that creepeth upon the earth.'
כט וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים, הִנֵּה נָתַתִּי לָכֶם אֶת-כָּל-עֵשֶׂב זֹרֵעַ זֶרַע אֲשֶׁר עַל-פְּנֵי כָל-הָאָרֶץ, וְאֶת-כָּל-הָעֵץ אֲשֶׁר-בּוֹ פְרִי-עֵץ, זֹרֵעַ זָרַע: לָכֶם יִהְיֶה, לְאָכְלָה. 29 And God said: 'Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed--to you it shall be for food;
ל וּלְכָל-חַיַּת הָאָרֶץ וּלְכָל-עוֹף הַשָּׁמַיִם וּלְכֹל רוֹמֵשׂ עַל-הָאָרֶץ, אֲשֶׁר-בּוֹ נֶפֶשׁ חַיָּה, אֶת-כָּל-יֶרֶק עֵשֶׂב, לְאָכְלָה; וַיְהִי-כֵן. 30 and to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is a living soul, [I have given] every green herb for food.' And it was so.
לא וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים אֶת-כָּל-אֲשֶׁר עָשָׂה, וְהִנֵּה-טוֹב מְאֹד; וַיְהִי-עֶרֶב וַיְהִי-בֹקֶר, יוֹם הַשִּׁשִּׁי. {פ} 31 And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
Sixth 24 hr period and most busy day.

There really isn't any room for fluffing around the edges and claiming time for God is meaningless etc after the end of day 1 however long that took it is very very clear we are talking about a 24hr period

It is clear in all the versions I have found and yes also read. Also every Rabbi, Priest or Father I have ever talked with on this. ( and there are many ) without exception ALL accept it is exactly as is written in Genesis 1 and by the hand or God or vision from to an unknown author from God. Generally nobody refutes this is the teaching of how everything came to be there is no author attributed to it other than by God himself.

It is Genesis 1 that I focused on when looking at the claim of there being a God, nothing else after is as important or written supposedly by God apart from i believe somethign in Exodus. (I forget what )

You either accept its literal or not. I cant see or understand how any believer can not accept it being literal yet claim to also believe in God.

I have lots of issues with Genesis 1 and much of it repeats itself over and over again, this is for me conclusive proof it had nothing at all to do with god writing this but rather some unknown person who had a very bad and basic understanding of how creation must have came about and in what order things had to be. It is as if Genesis is written by an uneducated unknowledgeable person not God himself.

 

[DeletedUser30834]

Hehe, I've heard the "Yom" argument a thousand times, and it's a ruse in argument.

The attention is presented to focus on the word, "yom," which generally does refer to a day but yes can refer to other periods of time. But, in viewing this issue with blinders, apologetics ignore all other aspects of what is presented in Genesis that clearly denotes "yom" as referring to a 24 hour period.

Interestingly, I thought I was clear when I posed Genesis 1:14-18, but perhaps I'm tasked to point it out in greater detail:

It is indicated He made the firmament of the heaven to "divide" the day from the night, for the express purpose serving as signs, to denote seasons, days, and years. It clearly points out day from night, clearly indicates what separates and differentiates day from night, clearly makes a point of indicating day is day, night is night, and it is these that determines a full day, which en masse' encompasses a year -- our year, how we interpret and understand years, days, and seasons, because He created them expressly to serve as signs so that we can differentiate and measure time.

And in this, Genesis repeatedly present a "day and a night" to define a "yom." Thus, in this particular understanding, in the express presentation and clarification as to what constitutes a "yom" in Genesis, it is made quite clear that it refers to a day and a night. This day and a night is made quite clear to be the same day and night as we are learned to understand, based on the clear statements, in English or Hebrew, that He specifically divided day from night and setup all of this to create signs that help us to differentiate one day from the next.

Now, at the widest interpretation of this, we could be sitting on the north or south pole, and our day and night could be a year. But, seriously... even six years of creation doesn't add up to 4.55 billion years, and certainly doesn't add up to 14 billion years.

Nice try homey.

Presenting yom in the argument is no more a ruse then you trying to claim the creation accounting in Genesis is wrong because of the ordering of events. The fact is, the word is there, it is real, it is what the term day is translated from in the bible, and the definitions I presented came directly out of my Strong's exhaustive concordance of the bible which had it's original printing date in 1890- before all this science or scientists started insisting everything god was wrong.

Even if the scientific dating says it is something different, it still doesn't prove anything in the bible is not correct. Neither you or anyone else can show where science says that once it finds a way, it is the only way ever. We are talking about a creation by an omnipotent being in one hand and human understanding of natural events in another. Do you see a complete disconnect there?

I presented it as a means to show how the time span in genesis could be interpreted differently then the common English translations which is what was being questioned at the time of the posting.

BTW, the rotation of the earth has not always been 24 hours. You are making the silly mistake of thinking that you know today was true then. We know scientifically that the earth has spun up to 4 times faster and slower in the past.

Genesis Chapter 1

How are you getting the Hebrew to stick? When I try to post it, it just goes into Unicode text. Anyways, you are right in that it has been understood as a 24 hour period of time for probably as long as it has been read. Certainly it has since the appearance of Jesus. The time dispute gets brought out when people make the claim it is wrong therefor all of Christianity is wrong because science nit picked one or two things. It has been done here. Of course that isn't very scientific of them because even when theories or processes in science turn out to be wrong, it is perfectly acceptable to only discard or ignore or rework the parts that were wrong and keep what isn't proven to be wrong yet. Turning lead into gold has been thought impossible for the longest of time even though it had been tried for so long. But alas, the impossible is possible today not because they abandoned the thought after not being able to do it, but because they changed how they went about it.

 

[DeletedUser]

Nice posts HS & Vic. Well-presented, informative & literate. I think you guys have covered this olne pretty well.

BTW, the rotation of the earth has not always been 24 hours. You are making the silly mistake of thinking that you know today was true then. We know scientifically that the earth has spun up to 4 times faster and slower in the past.

Can I just say on HS's behalf, I'm pretty sure he's aware that the rotational speed of the earth has not been constant. However, it's conventional to divide the day-length into 24 equal intervals or 'hours'. Thus a shorter day would have 24 shorter hours. After all, the solar day is very slightly longer now than it was when you were in short trousers, but we don't say it's now 24hours and a quarter second do we? It's still exactly 24 hours by convention. I daresay HS was just observing that same convention.
(btw; are you sure the earth has spun slower in the past, or could that be a "silly mistake"?)

 

[DeletedUser16008]

How are you getting the Hebrew to stick? When I try to post it, it just goes into Unicode text. Anyways, you are right in that it has been understood as a 24 hour period of time for probably as long as it has been read. Certainly it has since the appearance of Jesus. The time dispute gets brought out when people make the claim it is wrong therefor all of Christianity is wrong because science nit picked one or two things. It has been done here. Of course that isn't very scientific of them because even when theories or processes in science turn out to be wrong, it is perfectly acceptable to only discard or ignore or rework the parts that were wrong and keep what isn't proven to be wrong yet. Turning lead into gold has been thought impossible for the longest of time even though it had been tried for so long. But alas, the impossible is possible today not because they abandoned the thought after not being able to do it, but because they changed how they went about it.

Maybe because I have Hebrew as a language pack ? dunno but pleased it came out so the original and translation can be seen.

I really would rather this topic hadn't come up, simply as its all too obvious the mistakes that are there, certainly in how the steps must be such as water and light etc. I really don't wish to blow it to pieces because it is an astonishingly good piece of guesswork at the time and has stood the test of time wonderfully. Regardless of that we have for quite a while now known this system of how things have been shaped is nothing like days 1 - 6 as claimed. People have clung onto it as fact and refused to see that which is in front of their eyes, has been proven time and time again as more discoveries are made and technology advances. Genesis has it completely wrong of in what order things had to have happened.

It must be said that if God had indeed penned Genesis or even directly imbibed the information to man to be written ( As has and is claimed by All parties be it Jew Muslim or Christian ) it would surely not be so frequently and grossly incorrect. It would have just flowed and been borne out as science discovered these things.

This isnt a mistake that can merely passed off as human error this is Genesis 1. Nothing is more central to the belief in God and as the creator of all. It is totally inconceivable such mistakes would be made by God the all knowing and all powerful. It just isn't.

It made me sad it was such a simple puzzle to unravel when I actually bothered to look at it properly years ago and I have never to date found anyone able to explain such mistakes given it was/is as all claim, written by the hand of God himself. In fact it absolutely forces one into facing the strong possibility that Genesis was in fact probably written by some person of respect or religious standing in the community at the time, yet nothing divine in it at all.

Genesis is for me just another urban myth of how the world came to be, to chill out the people and give them a sense of reason as to why they exist and how at that time. No less than the Myan myth or Hindu or Red Indian or Egyptians or any other ancient culture.

Legends and Myth I adore for mans ability to imagine and give an almost lifelike quality to his fictional heroes is wonderful. Genesis is a piece of writers genius for its time and has kept audiences enthralled for thousands of years. It is however in the cold light of day and modern understanding, backed by hard evidence by that nemesis called science in many many fields to be what it is, a fanciful story. All very entertaining and in a way endearing but only a fictional myth nothing more.

If anything it is a testament to man that he can be made more loyal and controllable than any other domesticated animal. The ultimate herd animal if you will. Pretty amazing piece of work Genesis if you think about it. It dosn't mean knowing this has to make you disbelieve in God if you so wish of course but it would probably be best not to throw Genesis as any reference to being of Gods hand or doing because it'll just do more harm than good if anyone with a basic education bothers to pay attention to the claimed order of things.

 

[DeletedUser30834]

People have clung onto it as fact and refused to see that which is in front of their eyes, has been proven time and time again as more discoveries are made and technology advances. Genesis has it completely wrong of in what order things had to have happened.

I have to stop you right here. There is nothing that has been discovered that can be directly linked to proving genesis wrong. Science does not and will never take a natural explanation and make the claim nothing else ever could happen. Now if you were to say time and time again, evidence points to it happening "naturally" this way which isn't the same as the creation story and we can build a wealth of useful information that is the building block of a lot of scientific advancements, then I could agree. The problem is, created equals manipulation, naturally equals without manipulation. Science is the natural explanation, it says nothing to a manipulated explanation. We have life forms in the lab that actually qualify as a new species that exist partially if not functionally completely with manipulated/artificial RNA/DNA combinations that if you did not know about the manipulation would be indistinguishable from an evolutionary byproduct of an existing organism according to a natural explanation. That does not mean it was not created.

It must be said that if God had indeed penned Genesis or even directly imbibed the information to man to be written ( As has and is claimed by All parties be it Jew Muslim or Christian ) it would surely not be so frequently and grossly incorrect. It would have just flowed and been borne out as science discovered these things.

This isnt a mistake that can merely passed off as human error this is Genesis 1. Nothing is more central to the belief in God and as the creator of all. It is totally inconceivable such mistakes would be made by God the all knowing and all powerful. It just isn't.

It made me sad it was such a simple puzzle to unravel when I actually bothered to look at it properly years ago and I have never to date found anyone able to explain such mistakes given it was/is as all claim, written by the hand of God himself. In fact it absolutely forces one into facing the strong possibility that Genesis was in fact probably written by some person of respect or religious standing in the community at the time, yet nothing divine in it at all.

Genesis is for me just another urban myth of how the world came to be, to chill out the people and give them a sense of reason as to why they exist and how at that time. No less than the Myan myth or Hindu or Red Indian or Egyptians or any other ancient culture.

The problem is that you are assuming one must invalidate the other. In effect, one is more useful in some ways then the other and the other is more useful in other ways. You can have a created version of the world and universe and still discover an alternate path to the same destination that would have occurred if it happened naturally. It does not make one or the other wrong though.

Look at it this way, if there was a God, an all powerful, all knowing, omnipotent being capable of creating an entire universe, all the worlds within it, and all the life within those worlds, would he/she not also know what it takes for this creation to be self supportive or to have occurred without him? Now before you rush to reply, also consider that God was in existence before creating the universe and earth and angels were at his side serving him. So in this planer of existence outside of time, the omnipotent being that existed with it's servants would have already had some knowledge of how things work or should work wouldn't you think. So if someone with this knowledge did create all that we know, wouldn't that natural explanation be built in out of necessity?

 

[DeletedUser16008]

I wish you wouldn't force me to do this Sumdum I get no pleasure from it and please remember I did say I do not wish to go here and only do so because you warrant an comprehensive reply.

There is not much about Genesis that is correct in its order but lets go through it anyway.

בְּרֵאשִׁית, בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים, אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם, וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ. 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

There are countless amounts of proof that the Earth compared to pretty much everything else in the universe and cosmos is young in comparison. Seriously there is so much evidence supporting this that the very first line of Genesis is ridiculously out of kilter with everything we have learned in the past few thousand years and it foolish to continue further into the days of supposed creation for it only gets worse, but continue we shall.

Heaven cannot be confused with the heavens and stars etc for this is not even day 1 let alone day 4 when the stars came out so lets say this heaven is the ethereal version for now and leave it at that

וְהָאָרֶץ, הָיְתָה תֹהוּ וָבֹהוּ, וְחֹשֶׁךְ, עַל-פְּנֵי תְהוֹם; וְרוּחַ אֱלֹהִים, מְרַחֶפֶת עַל-פְּנֵי הַמָּיִם. 2 Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters.

This is very clearly incorrect it is and has been proven the Earth went through a heck of a lot of various stages first all with something called light before water emerged.

Its simple earth sciences and all have proved various stages before water abounds. All of those stages having light involved in some form such as radiation, volcanic action etc...

א וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים, תַּדְשֵׁא הָאָרֶץ דֶּשֶׁא עֵשֶׂב מַזְרִיעַ זֶרַע, עֵץ פְּרִי עֹשֶׂה פְּרִי לְמִינוֹ, אֲשֶׁר זַרְעוֹ-בוֹ עַל-הָאָרֶץ; וַיְהִי-כֵן. 11 And God said: 'Let the earth put forth grass, herb yielding seed, and fruit-tree bearing fruit after its kind, wherein is the seed thereof, upon the earth.' And it was so.

This is also grossly incorrect. There were NO grasses for millions if not billions of years. We know this from fossil records and a vast library of findings and botanical study. The same with herbs and certainly fruit tree bearing fruit. The prehistoric ages were devoid of all this and again there is massive amounts of evidence supporting it. The Earth was positively teeming with life in the seas for Millions of years without fruit bearing trees and herbs etc let alone grass which was absent for much of the time dinosaurs walked the Earth.

יד וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים, יְהִי מְאֹרֹת בִּרְקִיעַ הַשָּׁמַיִם, לְהַבְדִּיל, בֵּין הַיּוֹם וּבֵין הַלָּיְלָה; וְהָיוּ לְאֹתֹת וּלְמוֹעֲדִים, וּלְיָמִים וְשָׁנִים. 14 And God said: 'Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years;

This is remember day 4, thats day 4 not one. God is telling us right here that he did not create the sun and moon until day 4 with all that vegetation already about and the tides and land and seas around already ? does this not ring a huge bell of incompetence or something fishy in how things work right there on a massive scale ?

ו וְהָיוּ לִמְאוֹרֹת בִּרְקִיעַ הַשָּׁמַיִם, לְהָאִיר עַל-הָאָרֶץ; וַיְהִי-כֵן. 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth.' And it was so

Again we know the age of our earth and the sun and even universe approximately. it can be measured and has been atomically and by other methods besides. Again its factual proof here with massive research to back it up.

Do you really believe God sprinkled the world with fully formed vegetation on day 3 even tho we know it cannot survive without something as simple as light that didnt get switched on until day 4 ?

וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים--יִשְׁרְצוּ הַמַּיִם, שֶׁרֶץ נֶפֶשׁ חַיָּה; וְעוֹף יְעוֹפֵף עַל-הָאָרֶץ, עַל-פְּנֵי רְקִיעַ הַשָּׁמָיִם. 20 And God said: 'Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let fowl fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.'

Come on, Fowl are birds and they did not inhabit the skys until long long after the sea waxed and waned, waxed again and the creatures moved on to the land. Again this is supported by an awesome amount of archaeological evidence not even taking evolution into the equation.

א וַיִּבְרָא אֱלֹהִים, אֶת-הַתַּנִּינִם הַגְּדֹלִים; וְאֵת כָּל-נֶפֶשׁ הַחַיָּה הָרֹמֶשֶׂת אֲשֶׁר שָׁרְצוּ הַמַּיִם לְמִינֵהֶם, וְאֵת כָּל-עוֹף כָּנָף לְמִינֵהוּ, וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים, כִּי-טוֹב. 21 And God created the great sea-monsters, and every living creature that creepeth, wherewith the waters swarmed, after its kind, and every winged fowl after its kind; and God saw that it was good.

We absolutely know these three things did not inhabit the earth all at the same time until very recently as far as the age of planet Earth is concerned. there are no records or findings of either land fossils plants or birds for millennia when the seas were teeming. Not one fossil has been found to support that statement... not one, while there are millions upon millions of fossils to support the seas were alive for millions of years before anything else.

ד וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים, תּוֹצֵא הָאָרֶץ נֶפֶשׁ חַיָּה לְמִינָהּ, בְּהֵמָה וָרֶמֶשׂ וְחַיְתוֹ-אֶרֶץ, לְמִינָהּ; וַיְהִי-כֵן. 24 And God said: 'Let the earth bring forth the living creature after its kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after its kind.' And it was so.

So we shall just skip the 99% of Earths recorded history where mammals did not have a place at the table let alone cattle which is so recent if the age of the Earth were measured on a 24hr clock Cattle appear about 11.58pm.

We also know that insects swarmed for millions of years before there were grasses mammals and even great lizards upon the land. Again this is supported by massive amounts of fossil evidence.

ז וַיִּבְרָא אֱלֹהִים אֶת-הָאָדָם בְּצַלְמוֹ, בְּצֶלֶם אֱלֹהִים בָּרָא אֹתוֹ: זָכָר וּנְקֵבָה, בָּרָא אֹתָם. 27 And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.

So you really think that God even though he be omnipotent looks like us ? one of the most inefficient self supporting lifeforms on the planet ? Man is the least able mammal ever to walk this Earth without using tools. Without dominating and manipulation the world around us man would not have survived, and that he created woman after of course man had to be first ? does this seem intelligent to you ? why not a hermaphrodite ? or the ability to change sex ? And again there is too much evidence to suggest that nature has a way of dealing with this.

I put it to you this little ditty was purely a fabrication of the Male domination of the society at that time nothing more. Male does not come before female. Chickens are a good example, they will change sex from female to male in the absence of a , there are many other examples of this in the animal kingdom but none that im aware of that work in reverse. You can even affect the sex of certain species by temperature before hatching and has been observed and recorded many times. A Virgin komodo dragon for instance on its own will lay eggs and form its own colony. I have actually seen this documented evidence for myself on Rinca where they had monitored a lone young female over many years on an uninhabited outer island only to lay eggs and actually have them hatch and create a whole new colony.

No if anything Eve would have come before Adam not after. And being Gods image is human not sexual in its basis there is no reason to suppose God was anything but a sexual and certainly not like Adam.

But i digress and please lets not get into Adam and Eve but rather stick to the topic at hand.

Lets be totally honest here Genesis is basically baby talk, it is not even correct on the most basic level let alone high school and the author whoever it was did not even have an understanding of the world around him. It certainly wasnt divine inspiration that put pen to paper ( so to speak ) it is terrible in the way its constructed with constant errors in what must come before the other.

As I have said before I really didn't wish to go into this as i knew where it would lead. No disrespect to you but it would be better not to argue black is white further with me. I have no wish to bring out the big guns and start listing countless findings and proof supporting all my points that highlight the flaws in Genesis 1 but I shall if required.

**
OK lets go with this paradox your presenting for a moment.

Genesis 1 is the History of creation as told or written by God Himself. In it many aspects are back to front. God knows this but instead of ( being all powerful ) creating the laws of physics and the like to run with his explanation he chooses otherwise. In fact he does the very opposite with the laws of nature and physics and at the same time tells the story of how it actually was completely differently even though as man discovers everything around him and the order of it to be otherwise, as God knows he will.

So God intentionally creates a situation that brings his story of creation into very obvious disrepute and at the same time imbides man with the ability and intelligence to disprove his story and thereby discrediting his very existence and credibility.

I know it is said God moves in mysterious ways but its hanging on to some pretty way out sci fi stuff to go that far with not even Gods testament to back it up.

Nevertheless im impressed with your conviction and leap of faith to fill in these gaps and errors and come up with what can only be described as out there reasoning Sumdum.

Let us just leave this topic that we shall agree to disagree, unless you can come up with some solid argument that does not include something such as whimsical fictitious creatures such as angels and the like that cannot be proven and have not one shred of evidence in the whole history of man other than writings by people that in all honesty could have been nothing more than a control ploy or drug induced visions at the time.

 

[DeletedUser]

Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. ~ Genesis 1:2​

Genesis 1:2-3 shows water existed before light was created. Scientific evidence has firmly determined that "water" resulted, on Earth, after light (radiation), not before. This is understood for many reasons, not the least of which is that the Earth was a magmatic mass, seething with fission and fusion interactions, too hot to handle and obviously thrusting out a buttload of --- radiation --- including that nasty stuff called visible electromagnetic radiation (light). And while you may attempt to argue that water existed shortly after the Big Bang, that itself was the result of nuclear synthesis, which indicates light occurred before water. Again, so much meat on this for me to chew on, but I'll leave it at that and move to another Genesis 1 passage.

Are you talking about the element H2O or liquid water because the bible does not differentiate between the two especially in genesis and you cannot prove the element H2O did not exist on the surface of the earth before light, infact there was probably alot of the element around either as Ice or water vapor.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” ~ Genesis 1:3-5​

This is completely in error and a gross oversimplification. Light is not divided or separate from darkness. Darkness is merely the absence of visible radiation, but even night is not devoid of radiation, nor even devoid of visible radiation. In fact, if you were to stand in the darkness for a period of time, your eyes will adjust and you will be able to see within that darkness, your iris will expand allowing for your eyes to capture more visible radiation. Are we to now argue that when one closes his eyes, he is now "in" darkness? No, of course not. He could stand in a well lit room and yet see nothing with his eyes covered. The dichotomy of this presentation is simplistic at best. The thing is, simple is not correct, particularly not when referring to the construct of light being electromagnetic radiation which travels at a wavelength that our ocular nerves can process to determine spatial acuity, refraction, etc. And then we deal with that biting passage at the end, which states that light is day and darkness is night, which we know to be yet another oversimplification and simply --- wrong.

Also, it is quite obvious that light is a form of radiation, which is neither good nor bad, can cause benefits and harm. This "dichotomic humanizing" of light (and, in its inference, dark) is an inaccurate statement, one borne of ignorance.

Semantics...

And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. God called the vault “sky.” ~ Genesis 1:6-7​

There's plenty more written on this, but it's sufficient to point out that the Bible argues a firmament (vault) separates the waters above from the waters below, essentially stating that they believed the "blue" above was water and that we lived in a reservoir of sorts, a protected layer between two oceans. This of course we know to be, scientifically, poppycock.

Actually there was water (probably vapor) above according to the bible that was released during the great flood. This would account for the earth wide tropical condition during paradise/pre-flood times.

And then we have the error presented in Genesis 1:20-25, which indicates that on the 5th day God created the fish and the birds, while on the 6th day God create land animals. Ample evidence of a scientific nature indicates "birds" came after land animals, not before.

That "Evidence" is always under debate and cannot prove one way or the other.

Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” ~ Genesis 1:29-30​

Now we all know that "every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it" is not edible, cannot be consumed. Thus the claim that it is all "yours for food" is simply false. Same goes with all creatures, some of which are poisonous for us to even attempt to consume, like the Taricha granulosa, or rough-skinned newt. So, again, another false statement.
.

That was before Adam and Eve were booted out of the garden of Eden and the ground was cursed, and man was not meant to eat meat in the beginning that did not happen till later.

 

[DeletedUser]

Are you talking about the element H2O or liquid water because the bible does not differentiate between the two especially in genesis and you cannot prove the element H2O did not exist on the surface of the earth before light, infact there was probably alot of the element around either as Ice or water vapor.

You are wrong. Also, you know... h20 = water. Whether it is solid, liquid or gaseous, it is still h20, still water. Still, you are wrong. At the onset of Earth's creation, there was no water on Earth's surface, nor was there an atmosphere where water, in its gaseous state, could reside. Magma on Earth's surface was aplenty, but not water. There was no water in the atmosphere (no atmosphere), no water on the poles (no surface water), no monkeys in green tights, no dancing unicorns, no God...

Actually there was water (probably vapor) above according to the bible that was released during the great flood. This would account for the earth wide tropical condition during paradise/pre-flood times.

You are incorrect. Read up on the firmament to obtain an understanding on what Genesis is referring.

That "Evidence" is always under debate and cannot prove one way or the other.

Wrong Willy, it is only being debated by those who are ignorant of the ample scientific evidence. Please, extricate your head from your nether regions. The claim was made that science supports the Bible's presentation of Genesis and that there is supporting evidence. One cannot make such a claim and then try to argue that scientific evidence is under dispute, it invalidates the claim. Anyway, no you are simply wrong. The evidence is quite clear that "birds" are descendants of land-based dinosaurs.

That was before Adam and Eve were booted out of the garden of Eden and the ground was cursed, and man was not meant to eat meat in the beginning that did not happen till later.

lol, did you even pay attention to what you just wrote? Even if we are to take your claim that Man was supposed to be vegetarian, there are still ample plants that "cannot" be eaten by man.