Pascal's Wager

[DeletedUser]

Ok kids, lets this quote be a lesson for taking things out of context ...

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Murder

21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother[b]will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[c]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

And it goes on Jesus is ammending the rules as clearly stated as he goes into details about Murder, anger, Adultry, Oaths, and so forth

But, Jesus apparently doesn't practice what he preaches...

Matthew 23:17 "Ye fools and blind."
Psalm 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."

 

[DeletedUser]

Either yes or no

We believe +, -

We do not believe +

Then, if God exists

Eternal Reward, BIG + sign...Go to heaven

Eternal Damnation, BIG - sign...Go to hell and burn..For more info. See Hellfire

Then if God does not exist

We've missed a few pleasures but edified ourseleves through prayer, SMALL + sign

We're okay and we've had some good times, SMALL + sign

--------------------------------
Well, I'd go with Big + sign and go to heaven. I do rather believe and see what's up there. Which way would you go.

 

[DeletedUser]

Either yes or no

We believe +, -

We do not believe +

Then, if God exists

Eternal Reward, BIG + sign...Go to heaven

Eternal Damnation, BIG - sign...Go to hell and burn..For more info. See Hellfire

Then if God does not exist

We've missed a few pleasures but edified ourseleves through prayer, SMALL + sign

We're okay and we've had some good times, SMALL + sign

--------------------------------
Well, I'd go with Big + sign and go to heaven. I do rather believe and see what's up there. Which way would you go.

If there is even a heaven, then we are all going there regardless unless we go around raping, pillageing and murdering. Basically, what normal society would accept is what 'god' would accept. We don't accept prayer on the streets of life, so why should we be forced to pray for heaven? Does god only like ass kissers? Wouldn't that be a sin of self rightiousness on his part

 

[DeletedUser]

I think Adelei is on the money. When I first came across Pascal's wager as an adolescent I thought that if I worshipped the christian god and it turned out the muslims were right or vice-versa (or any other permutation of all the monotheistic religions) I might actually be worse off than just pleading that the evidence was contradictory and confusing, so I was keeping an open mind until something conclusive came along. I'd rather take the stand saying that I followed the dictates of reason and evidence in an intellectually honest way than that I picked a dogma and stuck to in blindly, hoping for the best. That would be my 'wager'.

[Incidentally, Toko22, in the light of what Jesus preached in the Sermon on the Mount, whatever you may claim to be, I can see that you are definitely not a Christian. I assume you are just posting to get a reaction.]

 

[DeletedUser]

Well, actually Eli, regardless of your choice, the premise you present is a failed wager. Your choosing not for love of God, but for love of self. Even if you chose Christianity, or Islam, the premise you present is a love of self. I.e., "what's in it for me?"

 

[DeletedUser]

Personally, I think the whole argument is irrelevant. In my (not so) humble opinion, it is better to believe and be wrong than to not believe and be wrong; however, I don't believe it's possible to make yourself believe something even if you want to. When I was a kid, I was told that Santa only gave gifts to those who believed in him, but I never could make myself believe (and I've still never gotten a gift from him.)

 

[DeletedUser]

Well, actually Eli, regardless of your choice, the premise you present is a failed wager. Your choosing not for love of God, but for love of self. Even if you chose Christianity, or Islam, the premise you present is a love of self. I.e., "what's in it for me?"

Hi Hell (which is where you're going! *joke*). My posting was all conditional and hypothetical - those "if"s and "would"s. I don't say I actually live like that. The thread is about Pascal's Wager however, so the premise of the discussion is about 'what's best for me'. Whether love of self is justified or not would be another argument.

 

[DeletedUser]

I think Adelei is on the money. When I first came across Pascal's wager as an adolescent I thought that if I worshipped the christian god and it turned out the muslims were right or vice-versa (or any other permutation of all the monotheistic religions) I might actually be worse off than just pleading that the evidence was contradictory and confusing, so I was keeping an open mind until something conclusive came along. I'd rather take the stand saying that I followed the dictates of reason and evidence in an intellectually honest way than that I picked a dogma and stuck to in blindly, hoping for the best. That would be my 'wager'.

[Incidentally, Toko22, in the light of what Jesus preached in the Sermon on the Mount, whatever you may claim to be, I can see that you are definitely not a Christian. I assume you are just posting to get a reaction.]

Have you even read the actual game theory discussions about the various outcomes of Pascal's Wager? It certainly gives the impression that you have not.

And Hell is right on the money, you love God for the benefits, not the "right reasons."

 

[DeletedUser]

Personally, I think the whole argument is irrelevant. In my (not so) humble opinion, it is better to believe and be wrong than to not believe and be wrong; however, I don't believe it's possible to make yourself believe something even if you want to. When I was a kid, I was told that Santa only gave gifts to those who believed in him, but I never could make myself believe (and I've still never gotten a gift from him.)

I like your part..better to believe. Oh and with all heart.

God created us and believe me he is a lot smarter than us.

we can't love God just for the sake of being saved from hell or he will know and oh the punishment is a lot harder forsure :unsure:

about the part "I don't believe it's possible to make yourself believe something even if you want to"

you can work on it and it may eventually become what you believe. Me growing as a kid always were told to give to others and I did believe in it now. I always give

 

[DeletedUser]

Have you even read the actual game theory discussions about the various outcomes of Pascal's Wager? It certainly gives the impression that you have not.

Heck no, I've better things to do with my life.

And Hell is right on the money, you love God for the benefits, not the "right reasons."

I guess you didn't read all the posts.

 

[DeletedUser]

Heck no, I've better things to do with my life.

It's not a really long read.

You're right, I didn't read *all* of your posts.

If I've mistaken you for a different poster, I apologize.

Actually, I'm RL friends with Adelei Niksa, who no longer plays here nor posts here, and I agree with him too, on the logic of it.

 

[DeletedUser]

It's not a really long read.

You're right, I didn't read *all* of your posts.

If I've mistaken you for a different poster, I apologize.

Actually, I'm RL friends with Adelei Niksa, who no longer plays here nor posts here, and I agree with him too, on the logic of it.

Send Mr. Adelei Niska my regards then.
The forum is a poorer place without him.

The number of halfwits frequenting these forums these days are proof enough.

Anyhow, we are getting off topic here, so let's sum up the argument:
Pascals Wagers is a bad bet.