"Occupy Wall Street" movement another example of people power

[DeletedUser]

So far as I can tell, in my town at least, the people that have gathered to protest all seem to be homeless. I see them every day, know most of them, and frankly do not like them very much. I believe that they are jumping on this movement just to get free sandwiches. A lot of them are fully abled people who would rather drink than work. They want everything for free without having to earn it. I get hit up for a cigarette at least 6 times a day. The worst part is the younger homeless population here. They can't even take care of themselves and yet they all have puppies? It is ludicrous. So, what I am trying to say is that from what I can see locally, this movement is bogus.

Here are a few questions to ask yourselves:
What is the percentage of taxes paid by the top 1%?
Has anyone ever truly "kept you down"?
Whatever happened to pride in work?
Does it really matter what the "Jones's" have?

I will try and post a picture of what I am talking about. They are calling it "Occupy Asheville"

 

[DeletedUser]

Here are a few questions to ask yourselves:
What is the percentage of taxes paid by the top 1%?

They pay an average of 17.??% of their total income, as opposed to middle/low income who pay 35-47% of their total income, depending on income brackets, permits, licenses and other factors. As to the percentage of taxes paid, irrelevant, as that's an argument pertaining to present-day wealth disparities. Are we to argue that, because of this disparity that results in them paying a large percentage of taxes, they should get less restrictions and further increase the disparity in wealth without concern for the consequences to the remaining populace or the economy as a whole? Answer is no.

Has anyone ever truly "kept you down"?

Yes, and there are many that keep (or kept) you down too. Problem is, most people are simply unaware or, worse, ambivalent about it and thus fail to act (or, as in many cases, are incapable of acting).

Whatever happened to pride in work?

When people realize they are being exploited, pride becomes a chain.

Does it really matter what the "Jones's" have?

If they have their basic necessities by robbing you of your basic necessities, damn straight it matters.

I will try and post a picture of what I am talking about. They are calling it "Occupy Asheville"

Hi Iggy, it very well may be the case with the people you are seeing, but that is anecdotal ( I met an ugly woman, so they must all be ugly, right?).

 

[DeletedUser]

They pay an average of 17.??% of their total income, as opposed to middle/low income who pay 35-47% of their total income, depending on income brackets, permits, licenses and other factors.

What's your unbiased source?

 

[DeletedUser]

What's your unbiased source?

IRS and CBO

 

[DeletedUser]

IRS and CBO

Link to the actual data?

 

[DeletedUser]

17% of their income but how much of the total taxes paid does that amount to? I do think it matters. Most of the people with money got it the old fashioned way, inheritance, and how much of that money then gets paid in taxes? 45%?

We get taxed when we earn it, get taxed on any savings accrued, get taxed when we spend it, and get taxed when we try and pass it on to our children. Thats getting taxed after you die!

Nobody has ever kept me down but I could say that I have kept myself down. Be the ball! I didn't have any money for college so I worked my butt off and did it myself, over quite a few years, but I did it. If I have ever had a job where I was being exploited, and yes, I have had those jobs, I simply quit and change my scenery, job, maybe even profession. When I wasn't getting paid what I was worth I started a side business crocheting hats, and now I make rent a few months out of the year doing just that. I learned how to play an instrument and make money that way as well. When times have been hard I have even sold my plasma to make sure I could provide a christmas for my son. Nobody is keeping me down. I have never been unemployed unless I wanted to be.

If you don't like your situation, then do something about it.

As far as the "Jones", good for them. I don't really even care what they have, I have everything I need and I earned it all myself. I am sure the Jones did the same.

As for the movement, I prefaced my comment by saying that it was specific to my town and who I saw joining the movement. I happen to live in a peculiar town that is made up mostly of artists, tourist and hospitality workers, musicians, homeless people, and college students. And also rich people over in Biltmore Forest. (Andie McDowell lives there and she is truly gorgeous). I specifically tried to make it clear that this is what is happening locally and truly did not mean that it includes everyone everywhere. So no, it is not like your anecdotal response at all.

 

[DeletedUser]

The actual problem is that the rich people don´t do anything but they still get 1000 times what the people that work for them got from a full month of hard work, losing big part of there family time and just leaving for the work.
I live on a small country (that has been on the mouths of the world because we failed on controlling the govern money and used too much) and with only 7 private banks and 1 public bank, the money that the private banks gave to there administrations and high level workers, was enough to reduce our debt by over 20%. And from that money, less than 10% payed taxes, since all the rest was registered on some fiscal paradise where they don´t pay taxes. And that was the registered values... because then there are the other ones like cars, travels and credit cards that aren´t registered because those are mainly from some island that lets them get those thinks and nobody checks.
The public bank too payed high values but since 2006 they need to make a registry of everything they give to there high level workers, the values pay taxes and are very lower than the private banking.

The same thing is happening all around the world. Look at what happened to Dexia. They where the 3rd best bank of Europe on the stress tests... last week they found out that they only got that value because they were harvesting the 3 months borrows from the countries that are with problems. Right after the second scare they were crushed and didn´t even had money to face 5% of the depositors recovery... some people needed to wait 3 days to get there 25000 euros account. And then we found out that before the news got out, they had over 600 millions move to some other banks.
Those things make the people try to understand why are they giving everything to get some money to live and others continue to live big without any problem.
The 90 billions that the european governs gava to Dexia got the stock markets to raise over 7% in 3 days.

Those things get people that lose there jobs and can´t find anywhere to get money to survive to go out and protest.
Many of the people that is out there protesting are not youngsters... it´s people that have 30-40 years and used so much money on there education and now they are still owning money to the banks and they don´t have it.
They have some guilt with them since they used credits (that you could get at your home just by opening a letter from a bank...) and thought that they would always have money to pay it.
But the "fat cats" got many prizes from those youngest that where using 10 credit cards with 10000 limit and a mobile phone with a 99 monthly payment. Joining that with some cable tv and 5 times a week eating on some restaurant, you would be living at the level of the fat cats... Now we are all paying for that... and the fat cats continue to live large without any trouble.

 

[DeletedUser1121]

There was this nice item on the news the other day about the occupation of Wall Street..
A woman was shouting and demonstrating and when the reporter asked her why, she spoke the legendary words: "I am $100.000 in debt and I want my government to do something about it!" In my opinion, you are responsible for your own actions. If you are big enough to make such a debt, you are big enough to pay for it yourself.

Most of the people out there have no clue why they are there in the first place. There was an interview with a 17 year old girl who was just going there to upset her parents. I have heared about people who just drink and party all day. They don't care why there is a protest, they are just there to be there.

Or is this just the media, trying to feed my brain misinformation?

 

[DeletedUser]

Sorry Elmyr, not in the spirits to chase the information and post it. It's readily available at IRS and CBO. I wasn't just blowing stats out of my arse.

17% of their income but how much of the total taxes paid does that amount to? I do think it matters. Most of the people with money got it the old fashioned way, inheritance, and how much of that money then gets paid in taxes? 45%?

Umm, Iggy, one person, one vote. When 1% of the population is able to dictate the direction of this nation, irrespective of the will of the People, then there's a problem. This has been at the core of the issue. It is not about "income," it's about power. The Nation's responsibility is to protect the well-being and security of its citizenry. When the relative cost of living increases for the majority of people because the disparity in wealth is expanding exponentially, then there's reason for concern. It is not something to dismiss arbitrarily and say, "hey they pay more taxes, therefore they should have more say in what happens to everyone in this country," particularly when wealth is a greed facet, not a need facet, and definitely not a share facet.

But, at the core here Iggy, you don't seem to understand how the Stock Market is manipulated, and think it's merely a bunch of guessing. Nor do you seem to understand that what happens in the Stock Market has far reaching impacts. People playing "crash & burn" games with the Stock Market, so they can make an extra million dollars here and there, are causing havoc in the lives of low and middle income people. Jobs are lost, some regained, but security is clearly out the window.

We get taxed when we earn it, get taxed on any savings accrued, get taxed when we spend it, and get taxed when we try and pass it on to our children. Thats getting taxed after you die!

You're right, "we" do. But the top 1% don't, at least not to the degree we get taxed.

Nobody has ever kept me down but I could say that I have kept myself down. Be the ball! Nobody is keeping me down. I have never been unemployed unless I wanted to be.

As far as the "Jones", good for them. I don't really even care what they have, I have everything I need and I earned it all myself. I am sure the Jones did the same.

In the meantime, the Jeffersons were denied fair wages because of their race. Ms Appleton was denied equal pay because she was a woman. And Joe Kruger was denied employment because he was unable to obtain a decent education, for lack of income (catch-22 there). And let's not forget John, who is tasked with paying back all those student loans, only to end up not having a job (despite an education) due to the irresponsible and selfish actions of the banking industry.

Iggy, I find your comments irresponsible. Just take some time to learn what's going on in the U.S. (and the world for that matter). People with master's degrees are having to work at convenience stores, fast food restaurants and Walmart because they need to pay off their bills and cover their basic needs after losing their jobs to the actions of irrepressible stock brokers and lenders. The poverty level in the U.S. has risen dramatically. The middle income group has shrunk. The wealthy remain friggin' wealthy and have been, in fact, getting substantially wealthier (particularly after Bush Jr. came into office).

I specifically tried to make it clear that this is what is happening locally and truly did not mean that it includes everyone everywhere. So no, it is not like your anecdotal response at all.

But you were nonetheless posing it in the anticipation it would be looked at as a sweeping statement. That was obvious from your presentation. Regardless, your opinion of homeless people kinda bothers me and reminded me of a recent discussion we had about gypsies...

 

[DeletedUser]

A woman was shouting and demonstrating and when the reporter asked her why, she spoke the legendary words: "I am $100.000 in debt and I want my government to do something about it!" In my opinion, you are responsible for your own actions. If you are big enough to make such a debt, you are big enough to pay for it yourself.

Hi Desi, I think you're forgetting how the banks and lenders did a nasty trick of dramatically changing the interest rates on most of the loans. A relative of mine, who never defaulted on any payment, always paid on time for all her credit cards and her home, was bombarded by letter after letter telling her that the interest rates on her credit cards were being tripled.

You're also forgetting (or maybe you're not aware) that banks and lending agencies were giving people ARM loans to buy their homes (and vehicles) only to turn around, when the economy was wracked by their irresponsible lending and sale actions (resulting in the housing market bubble bursting), and dramatically increased the interest rates. And let's not forget that many people lost their jobs because of all this, and the interest continued to accrue alongside interest rates that continued to rise. And then there's those who had to take a pay cut (I forget the numbers, but it was in the double digits of the employed). And how about if we also consider those who simply didn't get cost of living adjustments as the cost of living rose.

These are some of the ways people ended up in ridiculous debt. Lenders got greedy, tried to keep their investors happy whilst undermining the stability of citizens.

Most of the people out there have no clue why they are there in the first place. There was an interview with a 17 year old girl who was just going there to upset her parents. I have heared about people who just drink and party all day. They don't care why there is a protest, they are just there to be there.
Or is this just the media, trying to feed my brain misinformation?

Are you listening to FOX news?

In journalism, it's considered unethical to pose anecdotes, a sort of "pick and choose the wierdos" to misrepresent a larger base. Unfortunately, although unethical, distortions in fact through "wierdo" sampling is quite common when it comes to presentation of such events, particularly when the owners/investors have a stake in the matter.

Let's face it, the underdog is not called the underdog for no reason. He's fighting against power and influence. Influencing the populace into sitting on their hands and letting the big guys do whatever the hell they want is precisely what's been going on for quite some time. Corporations don't merely pull strings in governments, they pull strings in media. And while that may sound melodramatic, it is unfortunately where we are presently.

 

[DeletedUser1121]

Thanks for the update Hell. No i wasn't watching Fox (can't ever receive it i think..). In fact it was on a rather left orientated radio station which has a few reporters following the whole scene. And there were interviews with people who actually were trying to set up proper meetings for all the different camp leaders. But the whole thing is being brought here without giving the true reasons why people are there. And when he started asking, he couldn't get many decent answers. All i wanted to say was that it apparently is very hard to get a clear message out to all the people who are joining in and even starting the same kind of protests in other countries (which have quite different problems then the US have)

I can't relate to any of the problems. To go back to your example, having multiple credit cards doesn't sound good to me. In Holland most people use a debit card, which prevents you from paying great amounts of interest on the money you used. I have a credit card (only 1500 max i think), but only used it twice for small amounts because i forgot my debit card. In the terms of the credit card must have been something about the rates and the fact that the bank can change them. People feel treated unfairly because they got involved in stuff they didn't fully understand. You can say that is the fault of the banks who sold them their products, but at the end of the line, it was the buyer who signed for it.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

Thanks for the update Hell. No i wasn't watching Fox (can't ever receive it i think..). In fact it was on a rather left orientated radio station which has a few reporters following the whole scene. And there were interviews with people who actually were trying to set up proper meetings for all the different camp leaders. But the whole thing is being brought here without giving the true reasons why people are there. And when he started asking, he couldn't get many decent answers. All i wanted to say was that it apparently is very hard to get a clear message out to all the people who are joining in and even starting the same kind of protests in other countries (which have quite different problems then the US have)

I can't relate to any of the problems. To go back to your example, having multiple credit cards doesn't sound good to me. In Holland most people use a debit card, which prevents you from paying great amounts of interest on the money you used. I have a credit card (only 1500 max i think), but only used it twice for small amounts because i forgot my debit card. In the terms of the credit card must have been something about the rates and the fact that the bank can change them. People feel treated unfairly because they got involved in stuff they didn't fully understand. You can say that is the fault of the banks who sold them their products, but at the end of the line, it was the buyer who signed for it.

OK im part you are correct desi ... a large part of the problem and responsibility is with those that took it ... but heres the other side of the problem

If you are educated and told and badgered and basically brainwashed over decades about economics and the have now pay later thesis at what point do you say ... well hang on just a minute ....

If my government acts irresponsibly and my economic teachers teach the ponzi scheme as verbatim and everyone is borrowing and expanding their business homes lifestyle etc etc FOR DECADES like its never going to end where is does the fault and/or responsibility really lay ? with the teacher or the student ????

I know all kinds of victims from uneducated to Doctors to professional lawyers back to tradesmen that have all been suckered over the years and all are gonna pay dearly... heck half the world has been suckered in here and those who engineered and have been promoting this system of debt based credit ARE AT THE HEART and should be held accountable ...

There are also the ones like me and others like pensioners and savers who haven't gotten suckered in and are watching their savings for being smart and responsible get eaten away, 401s dropping annuities crashing along with most other traditional safe investments.... what have they done wrong other than be prudent ?? these are also out there protesting because the longer it goes on the longer there will be no interest rates for even the smart ones to get anything back, whilst the value of their currency is destroyed with ever expanding quantitative easing... they lose just as much if not more because they haven't even enjoyed the party of free credit and what do they get ? smacked in the kisser for it same as everyone else...

As far as im concerned half the financial world is guilty of Fraud, Embezzlement, Grand Larceny, Manslaughter at least Murder at worst and Crimes Against Humanity on such a financial scale it boggles the mind and indeed makes it almost impossible to believe... but its there and all true ... It encompasses war, trafficking, drugs, arms dealing and pretty much any other nasty business you care to think of where massive financial amounts are involved. Where do you think the players keep this kind of funding, under a mattress ?

The game is rigged from the day you are born to the day you die, and the best trick the wolves ever played was to successfully make the sheep think they arnt carnivores or even better most think they dont even exist.

Well they do im afraid and the more you look the more youll notice, its playing out right in front of your eyes every day in plain sight, its your education and conditioning thats making you refuse to acknowledge it.

Debt is slavery, they know it and so should you.

 

[DeletedUser]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Victor Kruger again.

Bah, always being thwarted for failing to red rep people more often.

Anyway, good post Victor. And yes Desi, it is a situation where people trusted the system that has, for 30+ years, maintained a "debt is good" mentality. It was started during the Reagan era and is part and parcel of Reaganomics, where the nation led the way to debt-living. Unfortunately, Reaganomics was a false sell, as it gained its' creds off the "expected" rise due to the previous years' unemployment and inflation and was in many ways the antithesis to Keynesianism.

That's the thing, Keynesian economics is the key to managing the issues presently plaguing the U.S. and the world as a whole, but it lost its favor in the pre-Reagan era, and in there Reagan found his opportunity to present an economic model that is fundamentally flawed and which birthed our present crisis.

So yes, Reaganomics, particularly the policy of "hands off" in the form of deregulation, is largely to blame.

 

[DeletedUser]

I admit that I am ignorant of a lot of the what is going on. The good thing about my ignorance is that I can change that any time I choose.

That being said, I did not make any "sweeping" judgement that would encompass everyone involved in this movement. I clearly said that from what I can see, in my town, locally, and other such words as to make sure that I was talking about what I can personally see going on, that the local form of this movement is bogus. And it is bogus. Again, in my town, the movement is called "Occupy Asheville" and most of the demonstrators, who happen to demonstrate right across from my work, are the same local homeless population that have been hanging around the city for the last 2 years. Some are young people who would rather live off the grid and frankly don't even pay taxes. A large majority of those have puppies and bum around all day long. That is the part I am disgusted by. There are a few homeless people mixed in there who have legitimate mental issues and I will try and help them if I can, but the young kids who are just mooching off the land are just as much part of the problem as the top 1%. At least that is what I can tell from my town.

 

[DeletedUser]

There will always be leechers threatening to de-rail any movement, but what occupy wall street needs atm is a cohesive list of demands, as well as a unified front by all participants. Otherwise, the movement might very well fail.

 

[DeletedUser]

Sorry Elmyr, not in the spirits to chase the information and post it. It's readily available at IRS and CBO. I wasn't just blowing stats out of my arse.

So the IRS says that capital gains is identical to income tax and it's irrelevant that the income used to acquire the capital that generated the gains was already taxed?

If they'd invested the money poorly would that be better for the economy than investing it wisely?

 

[DeletedUser]

Not sure if that's an intentional distortion. Capital gain has a tax. Capital gain = a profit off the transfer of properties, stocks, bonds and similar. Taxing that profit is applicable, however the tax on that profit, which is income (but not wage income), is a significantly lower tax than wage taxes. As such, those who participate in the buy/sale of stocks, bonds and properties end up paying far less taxes than those who obtain their earnings through wages.

 

[DeletedUser15057]

Debt is slavery, they know it and so should you.

Never a truer statement made!!

NZ has recently been given a credit downgrade by S&P and Fitch based upon the increasing debt that the country owes, all basically accrued through excessive borrowing in the last 25 + years subsequent to 'financial deregulation' in the mid 80s'.

Substantially this current debt crisis has been fueled by people borrowing beyond their means to pay for said lifestyle improvements of today. Which means that future generations will be paying for this current generations excesses.

And the main benefactors have been, and continue to be the financial institutions that lent the money happily, or have disappeared with investors funds when they folded in the last global meltdown. This sound familiar to our US friends??

A common call recently from very responsible, and rightly concerned, economists has been for people to save more, pay back debt rather than increase spending.
The flip side to that has been a high number small businesses in turn having lay off their low income employees because of a downturn in spending or downscale production.

The recession spiral result = unemployment, increase in crime, poor health etc etc, the bitter pill that the country now will need to swallow while we try to get free of the increasing debt burden.

Banks, meanwhile continue to make their profit margins, albeit with polite noises that "profit gains have reduced down due to the tight economic conditions". Yeah right!!

Yep the average punter here has been sucked into believing that their debt of today can be repaid at sometime in the future. That day will be arriving soon and then some!!

 

[DeletedUser1121]

You guys made it clear that you feel that the US government encouraged people to get in debts. For some parts I can understand people making debts, like when you want to study (although i wouldn't think it should cost 100k just to get a diploma, but i guess that is another American problem) or when you want to buy a house. Those are investments in your life that I can understand. They fall under the first two steps of the Maslows pyramid (physiological and safety) and i think those are fundamental things that could require investing in due to getting a loan. But i really can't understand why people would get in debt to buy a new (bigger) television when the old one is still working perfectly. And I tried finding a reason for it in the article on wikipedia about Reaganomics. I couldn't find it, but i would appreciate it if someone could guide me into the right direction.

I think it wasn't caused by any governmental decision. It was caused by the fact that humans are jealous by nature. If my neighbour gets a 40" plasma, then I should get me a 42" and i should get it now because the box should be out by the garbage at the same time he puts his out. It is just a race to show who has the biggest <insert any random luxury object here>. Instead of looking at your neighbour, people should look at themselves and be proud of what they can afford instead of showing of what isn't even yours.

I have been told to save if you want to buy something. The interest you pay over borrowed money is always higher then the interest you get over saved money. So in the end you always pay more then you would have if you saved for it.

Another question i have, which i couldn't find a clear answer to on the interwebs, when is this occupancy movement a success? When do people feel they achieved their goal and feel they can go home?

 

[DeletedUser]

Quote:
Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

looks like someone wants to devalue the American dollar more then it already is. $20 an hour for minimum wage is ridiculous. that would mean more or less that the current $2.99 loaf of (wonder) bread would cost $8-$9 at that price.

Yep, whoever thought of that and support it obviously haven't done anything called research. During the dirty thirties, Germany increased wages so much that money became useless. In fact many employees were being paid thousands of duetch marks every month. Which increased inflation... so... they needed to be paid higher wages to counter inflation, which increases inflation.


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Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

these people really think that private heathcare takes money away from doctors by negotiating for the patient (kind of like a teamster/union leader does for the people)

The problem in USA is that the healthcare insurance companies are a for-profit business. If you get too sick they cancel your healthcare, or charge you high premiums which you normally can't pay. In Canada the provinces pay for most healthcare costs... which is why I supported Obama's health care reform. Though it should go further than what is instituted... by removing all the private insurance companies, and make the state pay the health care costs. Another problem is that Drs. in USA are paid a ton of money, more than the doctors in Canada. In USA the people who have the money can actually get their surgeries done within weeks while those who don't wait and wait and wait.


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Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

so someone who choice it is not to work can make a living off of not working?

This is another term for minimal wage. Unfortunately due to the economics, what used to be done by a single person is now required by more than one person to support the family. In the fifties a man could afford to care for his family while his wife takes care of the home. Now, unless he really has a good job, it's impossible.
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Demand four: Free college education.

who will take up the teaching jobs? teachers are hardly getting paid now.

In Finland post secondary education is paid for by the state. I believe that's what they want. So the students can go to college and not amass high amount of student debt which you can't declare bankruptcy from, at least that's what happens in Canada. If a person declares bankruptcy their debts except for any outstanding student loans are removed from the books.
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Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

again alternative energy is expensive and still has at least 10+ years till we are fully able to be fully oil independent.

It is expensive for one reason... it's not massed produced. The first electric, fully electric, cars were made in the 1960's. Then the company who made them was bought by GM/Ford (I forget which) who then destroyed all the records on how to make them, and the factories where they were being made, and then destroyed all the vehicles and dumped them in the Arizona Desert. Green Party of Canada Leader Elizabeth May had a documentary on the events that lead to the destruction of the electric car. Geothermal heating is probably the cheapest alternative. That is putting long pipes down into the earth and the pipes carry the heat from the planet's core up into the area where you want to be heated. Air energy is also easily accessible, in most places. Solar energy on the other hand requires oil (for the plastic) for the cells that capture the sun and turn the heat energy into electricity.
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Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

were will the money come from? would you like us to just print 1 trillion dollars?

Yeah... that's the problem, the USA doesn't have the money to do that... but it will help the economy. During the dirty thirties, the Canadian government had 'work gangs' of people who were doing make work jobs, namely making and improving roads, the pay was bad, but it was better than nothing. From the dirty thirties, the Canadian government has instituted Employment Insurance. Unfortunately you need to work 40+ weeks at a minimum of 40 hours/week in order to qualify... so... a lot of people who need it... aren't getting the employment insurance that is taken off of their wages. :/
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Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.

again were is the money coming from.

It's more of a idealist demand than anything else. It's possible to do that... but the decommissioning the nuclear power plants will cost more than a million dollars and where are you going to put all that uranium?
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Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

already done in the 15th and and 19th amendments

Yep... no idea where that came from....
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Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

kind of pointless if you ask me people can already do that

I assume they meant from within USA and yes they already have that.. it's expensive to move though. If they meant going to other countries then that won't happen. As I tried to enter the States in July I was denied entry... apparently you can't just enter the states and get married. :/ Though, it's hard to get visas to work in other countries. In Canada companies must prove that they tried to fill their job vacancy with Canadians before they are allowed to recruit from abroad.
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Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

not sure what they are demanding here

I don't have a clue either... though the political system in the USA is very skewed. Only the rich can become politicians... especially in the senate and state level politics. And of course, the rich are lobbied by the rich companies to give them unfair advantages... and the rich have no idea what the poor or middle class life is like since they've never had to live it. Of course, that's generalizing...

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Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

again were is the money coming from? and before that happens im going to go take out a 5 million dollar load and not have to pay it back.

It's possible... though... the creditors will be out of business since it's their money that's not being recouped. I had thoughts of what would happen if the governments of the most financially hopeless countries are allowed to declare bankruptcy, ex. Greece. Yes, there would be mass confusion and panic... but... what bankruptcy does to the ones who declare it gives them the freedom to work w/o that unpayable debt. Yes, it will be bad... but the interest rates is what is making it impossible to pay the debt off. They can't afford to pay the interest w/o borrowing money... and then they need to pay the interest for that loan... and so on. In Canada, the government is relatively financially responsible, yes there have been scandals when money is spent on something that the government didn't need to. Though, Canada's debt is managable. Though, Canadians are following in the American footsteps of over borrowing... and yes... I'm sure there will be another recession in Canada when the housing markets die down.
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Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

ok why? do they make you look bad?

Um, I have no clue as to why they want this either... the credit reporting agencies are there for creditors to view your ability to pay off your debt. In theory. Though one of the two common methods actually lowers your credit score if you pay off your balance at the end of the month... that one was designed to show profitability. It's profitable to keep people paying the minimum balance every month... because with the minimum balance... it will take them years and years to pay off the debt... so... you are getting a nice sum, more than if they pay off the amount each month.
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Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.

if that were the case also add that one can not be forced to join a union to work for a company.

Yeah... another addition would before people to make the union dissolve. And to vote on how the union is managed... since the people who are part of the 'working' body of the union could be fleecing the unionized members out of money... I seen it happen in Canada... where the unions leaders are being paid more than the average worker.

Yes, the USA Government did encourage it's members to get into debt... by not calling on the banks to stop loaning the below prime mortgages... which sparked the current problems. Whole banks with such debts collapsed when the system went belly up... though, if the USA Government was smart... it would have bought those mortgages from the banks. Which would transfer the houses to the government... and the banks would be free from those debts... which would have allowed them to continue on. The other problem was... the stock market... people who are into stocks don't know what they are supposed to do with their stocks... when their stocks start losing worth, they sell... which aggravates the system because too many people are into that way of financing.

The trick is not to invest in stocks, but invest in companies. Stocks are just a way to show how much of the company you own. If you invest in a company that is stable, and is lead well, no matter how much it's stocks lose value, which you then buy, you are still making a profit since the markets over the long term will sort themselves out. If the company you have stocks for gives dividends... it's possible after smart investing to live off the dividends... and retire.

The other problem with the system is... too much of the world's wealth is in the hands of the top 5% of the world. Which is where communism came in... to make sure people are treated the same... of course... they did that by taking the money from the rich and giving it to the government. According to an economist it's the middle class that needs to invest money into companies to make the system work... which they aren't doing because they are too busy paying off their debts... So, it should be the very rich... like Bill Gates... to step in and revitalize the system by investing the money they have sitting around doing nothing into business that can work, if they are given the time and financing to survive a few years of loss, to grow and become profitable. The companies that fail, 9 out of 10 fail within the first year. Out of the 10%, 9 out of 10 companies that survived the first year fail in the next 4. Yep, that's right, 99% of companies will fail within the first 5 years. But the ones that survive... will be profitable... and even expand.