North korea and Iran

[DeletedUser]

not once did i say giving nuclear weapons to everyone would stop using them quite the opposite they would use them and depopulate the earth to the extent that war and prejudice would end as everyone struggles to survive

Ahh, I see, so basically when you said, "everyone should have nukes it would solve all the worlds problems," you were advocating the destruction of the human race and/or every nation's infrastructure.

Well then, at least I know now to dismiss everything you post here, and likely anywhere else in these forums. Thanks for your input nonetheless. Always good to be reminded of the type of people that inhabit the internet. :dry:

 

[DeletedUser14280]

If everyone had nukes, it would lead to Mutually Assured Destruction, or MADness.
MAD is when you have nukes, someone else has nukes, if that someone else launched their nukes then you'd launch yours and take them down with you.
I think that's what Flyn was talking about. Here's a wiki article on it.

 

[DeletedUser]

If everyone had nukes, it would lead to Mutually Assured Destruction, or MADness.
MAD is when you have nukes, someone else has nukes, if that someone else launched their nukes then you'd launch yours and take them down with you.
I think that's what Flyn was talking about. Here's a wiki article on it.

...and your point is irrelevant, as it has already been covered by previous posters.

See the page beforet this one for the actual posts.

As for the rant of democracy, it is just completely ridicules.
George and Hellstromm has pretty much covered everything I wanted to say, so I'll leave it at that and give their arguments my support and agreement.

 

[DeletedUser]

well since you clearly believe the human race as it stands has redemable features and see nuclear war as a bad thing.iran should have nukes sure the government is un democratic so is china sure they fund terrorism so do america.as for the mental state of their leader a lot better than n.koreas

 

[DeletedUser]

Nukes bad, Grammar good.
War bad, spelling good.
Communication is a good way to break down barriers and misunderstandings. Let's hope that communication between people is more coherent so that these misunderstandings don't happen.

 

[DeletedUser]

Alright, so as an Iranian I feel the urge to step in here and share some of my thoughts on the matter.
However, I would first like to point out that I'm basing my argument on the fact that Iran is in fact developing nuclear weapons, an allegation that remains to be proven beyond doubt.

This political showdown over Iran's nuclear development has perhaps been the single-most unifying topic among Iranians. Even the Iranian bourgeoisie, highly critical of the current government, has expressed its support for the nation's nuclear program for the simple fact that as a proud culture they find it rather offensive for countries who already possess such technology to declare that Iran shouldn't be allowed to acquire it. It's one thing for Germany to criticize Iran's nuclear program, but another when the US, UK, France, and Israel do so. Moreover, the suspicions that Iranians hold of the Western world when you consider the historical events that played out there further augments this national sentiment. After all, much of the turmoil that's the Middle East has only been a byproduct of Western intervention. Consider the biggest problems: Iran, modern Jihad movement, Israel-Palestine, and even Saddam to some extent. I digress, however.
Now supposing that Iran does acquire nuclear weapons, do any of you really think that it'll ever use it? As opposed to what's usually portrayed in the media as a fanatical Iran, with the charlatan of a president named Ahmadinejad calling for the "wiping out of Israel", there are larger forces at play in Iranian politics. Even the Supreme Leader doesn't in reality have the absolute power that it's hyped out to have, as was portrayed by the recent demonstrations in Iran. Believe it or not, the people running the government are politicians and not simply religious zealots. As such, they understand that the use of a nuclear weapon not only completely isolates them from the international community, including the Russian and Chinese allies, but would also ensure an internal collapse.

And while we're on the topic, let me point out that the continuous sanctions placed against Iran are not only ineffective, but in fact harmful for the general populace. Just as the case with North Korea with the people suffering from the sanction in the form of starvation for millions of people, while the Kim Jong-il regime continued to live its life as if nothing had happened, the sanctions against Iran will only hurt the lower and middle class and force the desperate and uneducated into joining the government.

Ultimately, the lesson is that before you blindly criticize Iran, make sure you understand the history and set of events that led it to this point in time. Sound and reasonable criticism is good and the Iranian government is undoubtedly well-deserving of it.

Finally, just so it's clear(although I think George Hursthttp://forum.the-west.net/member.php?u=12010 mentioned it earlier), a democratic form of government did exist in Iran in the early 50's, however since it didn't go along with the oil interests of US and Britain, the CIA and M16 made sure to stage a coup d’état, thereby ending any true hopes of a long-lasting democracy in Iran. Makes you wonder what could have been instead, right?

 

[DeletedUser]

Alright, so as an Iranian I feel the urge to step in here and share some of my thoughts on the matter.
However, I would first like to point out that I'm basing my argument on the fact that Iran is in fact developing nuclear weapons, an allegation that remains to be proven beyond doubt.

This political showdown over Iran's nuclear development has perhaps been the single-most unifying topic among Iranians. Even the Iranian bourgeoisie, highly critical of the current government, has expressed its support for the nation's nuclear program for the simple fact that as a proud culture they find it rather offensive for countries who already possess such technology to declare that Iran shouldn't be allowed to acquire it. It's one thing for Germany to criticize Iran's nuclear program, but another when the US, UK, France, and Israel do so. Moreover, the suspicions that Iranians hold of the Western world when you consider the historical events that played out there further augments this national sentiment. After all, much of the turmoil that's the Middle East has only been a byproduct of Western intervention. Consider the biggest problems: Iran, modern Jihad movement, Israel-Palestine, and even Saddam to some extent. I digress, however.
Now supposing that Iran does acquire nuclear weapons, do any of you really think that it'll ever use it? As opposed to what's usually portrayed in the media as a fanatical Iran, with the charlatan of a president named Ahmadinejad calling for the "wiping out of Israel", there are larger forces at play in Iranian politics. Even the Supreme Leader doesn't in reality have the absolute power that it's hyped out to have, as was portrayed by the recent demonstrations in Iran. Believe it or not, the people running the government are politicians and not simply religious zealots. As such, they understand that the use of a nuclear weapon not only completely isolates them from the international community, including the Russian and Chinese allies, but would also ensure an internal collapse.

And while we're on the topic, let me point out that the continuous sanctions placed against Iran are not only ineffective, but in fact harmful for the general populace. Just as the case with North Korea with the people suffering from the sanction in the form of starvation for millions of people, while the Kim Jong-il regime continued to live its life as if nothing had happened, the sanctions against Iran will only hurt the lower and middle class and force the desperate and uneducated into joining the government.

Ultimately, the lesson is that before you blindly criticize Iran, make sure you understand the history and set of events that led it to this point in time. Sound and reasonable criticism is good and the Iranian government is undoubtedly well-deserving of it.

Finally, just so it's clear(although I think George Hurst mentioned it earlier), a democratic form of government did exist in Iran in the early 50's, however since it didn't go along with the oil interests of US and Britain, the CIA and M16 made sure to stage a coup d’état, thereby ending any true hopes of a long-lasting democracy in Iran. Makes you wonder what could have been instead, right?

In reply for the post above.
As an Israeli, after 3 years of serving in the army and understanding how it works, for a fact I can tell you.. Israel will not allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon, especially with your president throwing threats all the time, it simply won't happen. I know a lot of actions taken against Iran by Israel simply because I have been there. Iran will never reach nuclear weapon capability, with or without the US, Germany, France etc. support Israel will destroy the factories, it is just a matter of time until the war. If like you say your country doesn't actually plan on using those weapons and only throws threats in the air for no reason, can you please explain why it supports Syria, Hizbollah and Hamas? I will be really pleased to read they don't support them if you can provide any facts that they don't, to counter the facts that Israel already posses such as the last ship that was going from Iran to Hizbollah with missiles and all types of ammo. Funny part was, they thought they could fool the Israeli intelligence and move the ammo and missiles to a different ship in Egypt(If you have nothing to hide why switch?). Honestly, I compare Iran to Nazi Germany both leaders manage to fool the world so easily.. Unlike Hitler, Ahmadinejad saying in public that he is going to use that weapon to kill people while Hitler was doing everything quietly.. Where is Churchill when you need him.. I don't think your government deserves any reasonable criticism, your government will make your country perish.

 

[DeletedUser11019]

hmmm
dont like this thread for many reasons,
but never the less its a serious topic of the day.

i recently heard that obama has travelled to Japan to sign a few anti nuclear papers and treaties.
this is a good step towards disarming of all nations,,and would topple the idea"if you have em,then so cant we"
it brings the arguments for and against to a halt, anything else would prove a direct threat of aggression.
because its a fact,,nuclear just aint right.

about the oil,,hmm,,well iran has had many sanctions and odd things happen to them,,in some cases oil tankers sail around for days without being able to port and unload the oil(any sneaky trick, the west could think of to hamper)

the brief history about iran,,well long time ago,they were best pals with the west, (yes there were) they had almost the same relations irak had then,,lots of trade and other(i forget his name)the formers president had great ties with the world,,but was believed to be too modern or western,,and his people thought he was forgetting about old historic iran.
they booted him(pity)

the new president's history.
he was young dumb,had a gun,ran around in some country with a bomb,blew the living hell outa an embassy like some terrorist on the run...
thats the guy the (counsel)voted in as president.

the history behind old beardy goat.(im sorry if it offends)
old beardy goat was a trouble maker,,did many things wrong in his country,,his country booted him and he fled to....FRANCE!!
were he stayed for many years(opposite a brothel)
now mad and deranged, he was able to return to his country after the coo(not western organized)
because his country was in a state of shifting,,the very powers that made him flee his country was now in power(the people) he was then given (holy) (divine ) powers)
and in his country a priest, are almost law.

but thats when things turned worse..with his new super powers,and ability to hate blond woman,his country needed him more than ever,,(due to the shift,it was left unstable)..the shift had left them leaderless and once again within the people of irans control..naturally he used this unstability to gain favour.
he used his super powers to drive the country back into time..yes.
even the students complain about there internet usage and other.
they complained about the police and brutality,
added price hikes and other(i dont think they pay tax there,its all subsidised by oil)
there is a movement is iran,,(i forget its name) but its all about the people,and for the people,,this movement was what initially removed the former president with military help,but the people as a whole are not a smart movement,,rather a power and a force,,that was the fault,when the brought "beardy goat man" back,forgetting his past crimes as a raving nut bag(even in his younger years)
he and his road kill looking president had single handedly driven a country back into time,
his military has become sloppy(they where a well trained and royal guard, all to there own(they are supposed to have no leader,but fight for Iran(not its leader))the military weapons are now cheap..a katushka rocket is sooooo cheap and was used in 2nd ww.

Iran is very angry at Israel,due to the land..it was given to Israel by the uk and others after the war,then one day Israel was attacked by all sides,,and a one eye'd genius of a general retaliated (the 6 day war) and claimed land(increasing its size 2/3)
but due to the 2ndwwar,israel had learned from harshness and drafted up plans,,to give back the land(resettlement) but just like dumb people are,, they thought" hey here is some empty plot o land,,lemme build my shack here"
and they did in mass,..al sowrong was forced by political leaders and other so stop this(and got the nickname bulldozer)
after years,of fighting his own people,fighting Palestine,Arab countries,,things got worse, and he eventually died.
now the new leader is an absolute ******,,and wanted to wave his guns at everything,,proving he is just as barbaric as beardy goat man(or more)
this has not helped and only aggravated the situation with Iran,,now like as mass o zombyfied people all hell bent ,,they wanna tear each other apart...and no,,the government will not stop the bomb,,they will only encourage it(i speak from exp)
they want a war,,they want death,,they want more money for all that mess,,

(private note..i have Israel in a head lock and am squeezing the living teeth out o him)<---(its a military thing)..stop barking at the moon plz

it will only take time before this iran movement takes place again(does this every few years,and its a good read about the people)and will topple the current regime,
and once again the (counsel works different there) people will become the bread basket of the east again
that its a beautiful place, had the best quality garments and other, and was once the model of the Arab states and countries.



about north Korea.
he is more a religion than anything else,,his father started it all,,and he was left picking up the mess,, his people worship him(literally)
he is paranoid to the point,,absolutely no cell phones with the entire country

north Korea is one of the most delicate situations at the moment,,due to the modern fact of mass brain washing,
not like those mad cults in Texas,,but an entire country,,all warped and hell bent to do what ever the masters bidding.

all i can say is why do we drag our families and children into the war of a few old few.
in certain laws i may not talk to my one friend,,my other cannot stay in the country for fear on his life,,and my other,,well..he may never mary his childhood love one.
why do we war for the old and mad?