Limit On Fort Holdings

delldell56

Well-Known Member
Well, this thread has so many wrong ideas in merely 4 pages, it's actually made me register so I could reply and say NO!

While it's true that small towns/alliances are in a clear disadvantage, you are conveniently ignoring a few details here. Owning forts (and keeping them) isn't just a matter of ownership alone. You must be able to build them and defend them, and it isn't as easy as it sounds. Particularly the building them part. Trust me, I know from experience. I can also tell you that a lot of players like to enjoy the benefits of sleeping in forts, but couldn't be bothered to go defend them.

It would be ideal that every single player could have access to forts without being forced to have ties with big alliances; however, imagine an alliance of 90 players owning a big fort. Would they be able to make every player pitch in to build the fort? Be realistic, getting all those awful fort resources is a job in itself, takes time and lots of patience. Would every single player come to its defense when the fort is under attack? Let's not forget that a big fort needs 120 defenders, so your alliance would be 30 defenders short from the very beginning, even if all 90 sign in and are online, which is not going to happen. Can a town of 10 own a fort without having friends in big alliances? How does said town plan to defend it? Also, most players in big alliances invest heavily to become fort fighters, while smaller alliances have only casual fighters that aren't willing to spend in game money or real life money to become good, nor are they willing to attend most battles. You, for instance, are a level 74 worker still with a Precise Pepper Gun and 1640 HP. This alone tells us that you don't spend money in the best available fort gun for your level, likely not in the best fort gear, and certainly not in tanking up. But, you want to own forts that will be defended by your rusty gun players.

You said "I am not against good alliances, just ones that are bigger than they need to be." How big can an alliance be, in your opinion? Who gets to decide how big it needs to be? I bet if you could make your own medium alliance grow and own forts, you'd tell your members "sky is the limit". I admit I'm part of a mega-alliance and we have our issues, but it's also a lot of fun. And no, we do not own all the forts in our side but we do work with some smaller alliances to help them with their attacks and defenses; in return, they help us with ours. That teeny tiny reciprocity detail is what your medium alliance is missing. You want to make it all about David vs. Goliath, when truth is that we don't give ranks or don't help some players from other alliances just because they are unable to pick a side, and are constantly attacking us and using a multi tactics.

Now, because this reply is long enough and I could still go on forever, let me address your idea of a cap in fort owning. Do you realize that one of the factors that make a town go higher or lower in the ranking is the fort points they have? What you're suggesting is that once a town reaches the fort cap, they would have to find another way to keep climbing up (but they could easily drop down if they'd lose one single fort). This sounds like an idea that was suggested by one member of my alliance, that towns with negative morticians should have a penalty of some sort and towns with positive morticians should get a reward ranking-wise. Of course, this member belongs to a town that owns no forts but a good mortician, while the two bigger towns in the alliance happen to have negative morticians (but provide most of the forts they sleep in). This is like telling The Bloody Path they can't be #1 town on W 12 because they don't own forts, and dueling stats alone are not good enough. Or putting a cap on the number of players they can duel on a daily basis, to keep it "fair" for towns that don't have lots of duelers. It does not sound realistic, does it?
 

DeletedUser

Oh delldell, you stalker.....jk ;)

It's unrealistic for you to expect to be able to build a fort uninterrupted, I think. And it's not really the fault of smaller alliances that they're stuck with a lot of casual players. A good alliance can show up and then other alliances want to join and the numbers of the good alliance get inflated. The thing is, any alliance can be a good alliance, it's just that a lot of people don't want to work for it. I'd say several hundred people is a reasonable number for an alliance size, 1000 is just way too much; but surely you can use common sense to arrive at that conclusion yourself.

No, I'm not a tank tho I do have the best hp gear if you noticed all those other details about me. Besides, my intention is not even to be a fort fighter atm since I've focused on leveling since I started. Plus, the precise pepper gun is the second best gun in the game, after the golden gun. Rid the notion of the need for stability and you'll see why I'm right, for this and for fort building. I do forts for the fun of it :)

And one last thing, if you're going to go through 4 pages, you might as well notice other things are being discussed........maybe I should change the thread title.......nah, too lazy ^^
 
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DeletedUser20104

What the last post said
1)I know nothing about fort fights.
2)I got no idea how a large alliance works.
3)NO I wont listen to reason.



I have said it before and will say it again...running a large alliance is not as easy as it sounds .Sure you got a lot of good players but then that is the end....only about 100 of those players ( assuming you got about 700 to 900 players) really work of the alliance about another 100 will turn up after after a nice dressing down by the leaders...the rest are dead weight :( .
Those who have managed to keep large alliances working without much trouble have to take a lot of trouble ...which most often happens behind the scene in the closed forums
 

delldell56

Well-Known Member
LOL rice farmer. The reason I know about your gun and your HP is because, as you may or may not remember, I've helped your friends the Rage Alliance a couple of times and we've fought together ;)

Listen, even managing a full town is hard work. Out of 50 players, half of them will be inactive at some point. Not saying they'll go yellow or red, but you won't have all of them helping, talking and doing things for your town or your alliance on a daily basis. The same happens with alliances, regardless the numbers. On my main world, W12, IHLAG has +1,000 members, is pretty active and reasonablely organized. On W8, I'm in an alliance of 375 that works okay, but has more issues than IHLAG. On W11, my alliance has only 20 members and is pretty dead and inactive. In other words, it's all relative. You just need to be more efficient to manage a larger group of people (my common sense tells me this is like managing McDonald's or your local dinner. Your local dinner, with its 3-5 employees, has more chances to fail than multinational McD and its 30,000 guys worldwide). Running an alliance of any size isn't easy AT ALL, much less when you have to deal with the mega-star egos that come with the territory.

You want to own forts, yet you only want to be a casual fort fighter. How does that work? I'm not a tank either, and never had the least intention to become a fort fighter. I'm a quester, and that's what I'm good at. I planned to be a casual fort fighter, fight when I had to defend my forts or was feeling like it. However, I could not order my townies to go to this or that battle if I'm not willing to fight myself. I cannot ask them to block and die, if I am too afraid to do the same sometimes. I can't tell them to upgrade their guns, gear & HP constantly, if I keep fighting with a Precise Musket and don't assign any sp to fort fighting skills, just because I'm not a fort fighter. I can't ask my allies and friends to help me if I don't bother to help them. Actions speak louder than words.

As for the Precise Pepper Gun being the second best gun in the game, after the Golden Gun...I think I'll let someone else (with more authority on the subject) argue with you.
 

DeletedUser

sidp2201, I am an alliance leader and a fort general so I better know what I'm talking about >.<

Granted, I'm not the president, I'm the president's advisor. That's just how I roll, floats my boat, etc. So I do know how hard it is, and yes, it's even harder since our alliance doesn't have the numbers or active members, as only 10% are leaders and the rest are predominately casual players (Plus, didn't I say before that most members of large alliance are leechers?)

So what do we do about this? Cut off all the dead weight? I'd be down with all of us super-actives joining together on w15 ;)
 

DeletedUser

Well, this thread has so many wrong ideas in merely 4 pages, it's actually made me register so I could reply and say NO!

While it's true that small towns/alliances are in a clear disadvantage, you are conveniently ignoring a few details here. Owning forts (and keeping them) isn't just a matter of ownership alone. You must be able to build them and defend them, and it isn't as easy as it sounds. Particularly the building them part. Trust me, I know from experience. I can also tell you that a lot of players like to enjoy the benefits of sleeping in forts, but couldn't be bothered to go defend them.

It would be ideal that every single player could have access to forts without being forced to have ties with big alliances; however, imagine an alliance of 90 players owning a big fort. Would they be able to make every player pitch in to build the fort? Be realistic, getting all those awful fort resources is a job in itself, takes time and lots of patience. Would every single player come to its defense when the fort is under attack? Let's not forget that a big fort needs 120 defenders, so your alliance would be 30 defenders short from the very beginning, even if all 90 sign in and are online, which is not going to happen. Can a town of 10 own a fort without having friends in big alliances? How does said town plan to defend it? Also, most players in big alliances invest heavily to become fort fighters, while smaller alliances have only casual fighters that aren't willing to spend in game money or real life money to become good, nor are they willing to attend most battles. You, for instance, are a level 74 worker still with a Precise Pepper Gun and 1640 HP. This alone tells us that you don't spend money in the best available fort gun for your level, likely not in the best fort gear, and certainly not in tanking up. But, you want to own forts that will be defended by your rusty gun players.

You said "I am not against good alliances, just ones that are bigger than they need to be." How big can an alliance be, in your opinion? Who gets to decide how big it needs to be? I bet if you could make your own medium alliance grow and own forts, you'd tell your members "sky is the limit". I admit I'm part of a mega-alliance and we have our issues, but it's also a lot of fun. And no, we do not own all the forts in our side but we do work with some smaller alliances to help them with their attacks and defenses; in return, they help us with ours. That teeny tiny reciprocity detail is what your medium alliance is missing. You want to make it all about David vs. Goliath, when truth is that we don't give ranks or don't help some players from other alliances just because they are unable to pick a side, and are constantly attacking us and using a multi tactics.

Now, because this reply is long enough and I could still go on forever, let me address your idea of a cap in fort owning. Do you realize that one of the factors that make a town go higher or lower in the ranking is the fort points they have? What you're suggesting is that once a town reaches the fort cap, they would have to find another way to keep climbing up (but they could easily drop down if they'd lose one single fort). This sounds like an idea that was suggested by one member of my alliance, that towns with negative morticians should have a penalty of some sort and towns with positive morticians should get a reward ranking-wise. Of course, this member belongs to a town that owns no forts but a good mortician, while the two bigger towns in the alliance happen to have negative morticians (but provide most of the forts they sleep in). This is like telling The Bloody Path they can't be #1 town on W 12 because they don't own forts, and dueling stats alone are not good enough. Or putting a cap on the number of players they can duel on a daily basis, to keep it "fair" for towns that don't have lots of duelers. It does not sound realistic, does it?

This is a pretty logical post that gives good reasons why this idea should not be implimented. I'd also like to add that if we're trying for realism it's actually realistic that alliances with larger numbers and more experience will be dominant.
 

DeletedUser22685

As for the Precise Pepper Gun being the second best gun in the game, after the Golden Gun...I think I'll let someone else (with more authority on the subject) argue with you.

Anyone who thinks this is not worth anyone's time and effort arguing with. Precise pepper gun has an average damage of 222.5. Then there's a Winchester with 230, Precise percussion rifle with 232, Precise breech-loader with 248, Precise Winchester with 256 and finally the Golden Gun with 290. There's no arguing with facts.
 

DeletedUser

If you were to shoot an infinite amount of times, then yes, average damage would be the decisive factor. However, one would only use a gun several hundred/thousand times at most. Experience and common sense has told me that a hit doing several hundred damage is what usually occurs. Once in a while, I'll get a low damage shot, but that's pretty much the same as missing and it's up to chance, as well as your specs, as to whether you hit or miss. As I said before, rid the notion of stability! People nowadays are so wrapped up in being perfectly secure and having everything go nice and smoothly, but the rewards are so much greater when you take a risk.
 
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DeletedUser20104

sidp2201, I am an alliance leader and a fort general so I better know what I'm talking about >.<

Granted, I'm not the president, I'm the president's advisor. That's just how I roll, floats my boat, etc. So I do know how hard it is, and yes, it's even harder since our alliance doesn't have the numbers or active members, as only 10% are leaders and the rest are predominately casual players (Plus, didn't I say before that most members of large alliance are leechers?)

So what do we do about this? Cut off all the dead weight? I'd be down with all of us super-actives joining together on w15 ;)

When you said you are a alliance leader i didnt have much to think about
But when you said you are fort general i understood your level and so did anyone who knows a bit about the forts.
For your info i would like you to know that even a person in a one man town can become a fort general ....All the councilors and founders of the attacking town get the 4 stars and when defending(dont think you have ranked there) only the founder of the town which owns the fort gets general rank
 

DeletedUser22685

If you were to shoot an infinite amount of times, then yes, average damage would be the decisive factor. However, one would only use a gun several hundred/thousand times at most. Experience and common sense has told me that a hit doing several hundred damage is what usually occurs. Once in a while, I'll get a low damage shot, but that's pretty much the same as missing and it's up to chance, as well as your specs, as to whether you hit or miss. As I said before, rid the notion of stability! People nowadays are so wrapped up in being perfectly secure and having everything go nice and smoothly, but the rewards are so much greater when you take a risk.
Lol. The lower hits balance out the higher hits, hence the term average damage. Meaning that you will nearly always do more total damage with a weapon with a higher average damage. Especially when it's the pepper gun that's being discussed as it's possible to do damage in the 100s with every hit.
 

DeletedUser

sidp, when i say fort general, i mean that im the goto guy for fort battles. i didn't get to where im at by sitting around doing nothing ;)

futurama, you don't think i flinch everytime i do a 16-dmg hit? lol thanks for proving my point :)
 

DeletedUser

sidp, when i say fort general, i mean that im the goto guy for fort battles. i didn't get to where im at by sitting around doing nothing

What world is this? No offense, but strategy begins with individual tactics, and it looks like you have a few things to learn still.

1258 rice farmer 22 11117
 

DeletedUser

It's kinda hard when you're facing impossible odds......

So what do we do about this? Cut off all the dead weight? I'd be down with all of us super-actives joining together on w15 ;)
This would eliminate the problem of mega-alliances and I see no loopholes. thoughts?
 
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DeletedUser22493

Let me see if I got this right..
Your intentions are to split up all the large alliances into smaller alliances, so you can your alliance can fight someone who isn't too strong for you. Am I correct?

So, by adding a restriction to forts, you succeeded in splitting up the large alliances into smaller ones.
But.. How will this prevent them from working together? What have you changed, other than splitting them up in more groups?

You actually gave them an advantage. Now they can attack 2 of your forts at the same time, without it being a multi battle.

Like some have pointed out before me. Add 50 alliances to a world, and see how long it takes them to form 2 sides and start a war.
 

DeletedUser

Let me see if I got this right..
Your intentions are to split up all the large alliances into smaller alliances, so you can your alliance can fight someone who isn't too strong for you. Am I correct?

So, by adding a restriction to forts, you succeeded in splitting up the large alliances into smaller ones.
But.. How will this prevent them from working together? What have you changed, other than splitting them up in more groups?

You actually gave them an advantage. Now they can attack 2 of your forts at the same time, without it being a multi battle.

Like some have pointed out before me. Add 50 alliances to a world, and see how long it takes them to form 2 sides and start a war.
That's fine at least they all can't sleep at every fort for every battle BECAUSE NOW they don't "Own" a portion of EVERY fort. At the moment you have 2 megas scheduling battles amongst themselves ONLY
for small and medium forts, (taking turns every other day) and excluding thousands of players on every server from ever participating in fort battles as these same high levelers have time to make it to every battle and sleep in every barrack on the server as both parties SCHEDULED IT THAT WAY. Leaving the large forts alone as it might involve too many "other noobs" we'd hate to enjoy the game since we're HP tanks and gold gunners. Game is dying because of the selfish. Limit the forts an alliance can be part of to FEW !! See how many want to participate and nugget if they can't sleep everywhere and have every advantage the HP & experience hogs so enjoy now. WAY BROKEN
And these cries of "MULTI" proves the point the biggest selfish lamers protest to anyone else being involved in the game in any capacity. Never experienced such juvenile entitlement garbage in a game.
 
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DeletedUser28121

i cant believe i just read through 6 pages of this crap :/... given the arguments i'll say NO to this idea
 

DeletedUser9470

i think this could be a good idea, if you dont need a million peeps to take a fort it would certainly mix things up.
and because things would be easier you wouldnt need to rely on big alliances, so big alliances would disappear.
i think it would be a lot more interesting and a lot more fun.
 

DeletedUser

I Agree !! This IS a GOOD idea ! Limit the number of forts any 1 town and or alliance can be a part of. All people from same alliance sleeping in forts owned limits any participation from newer players especially if only 2-3 mega alliances own all the forts. Just cause someone has reached level 120 or played for 2 years doesn't mean they should own the world. Game needs to be OPENED UP. Sides can still band together but should not get the benefits from every fort because they have all high level long time players. Limit the number they can BE PART OF & it Will allow many more players to be involved in fort battles. Definite YES vote
 

DeletedUser22575

No to this.

If you can't put together a larger alliance from the smaller alliances that is competitive...or if you can't take a fort and keep it..tough..to bad.

Restricting the number of forts towns and alliances can have to compensate for other towns/alliances inadequacies is not the answer to the problem and is unrealistic and punitive.

So what..you want to punish alliances/towns for being capable and and competitive. How socialist.:mad:
 

DeletedUser

No to this.

If you can't put together a larger alliance from the smaller alliances that is competitive...or if you can't take a fort and keep it..tough..to bad.

Restricting the number of forts towns and alliances can have to compensate for other towns/alliances inadequacies is not the answer to the problem and is unrealistic and punitive.

So what..you want to punish alliances/towns for being capable and and competitive. How socialist.:mad:
The funniest part of your weak argument is that the people who actually have to work for a living and have real lives to support families are the SAME ones with your "inadequacies"
---you exclude them for the "Elite" unemployed, unemployable, students on Mom & Dad's dollar, and downright leeches off society
who OBVIOUSLY have more time to devote to the game!!! :hmf:
They're the ones who can play 24/7, level and spend time getting golden guns !!!
Your logic is so flawed I almost envision you as the epitome of the aformentioned and first with your hand out begging in the bread line blaming corporations for YOUR failure !
Then yelling at the volunteer for your small portion compared to the last person who got 1 more pea.
Honestly that's the true nature of your beast :laugh::p
 
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