just to make clear for non believers the overpowerring of attackers

Zeta-Navy

just check the hp on this fight

http://www.westforts.com/en15/battles/battle/21826

attack had 67k less hp then the defence, the defence had barely offliners

the outcome 60 attackers survive 19 defenders survive....

and look at the hp of the tanks, they aren't 13-14-15k tanks anymore most are 10-11k meaning they used 150-200 sp into skills generally most have that in hiding

still defence though they won got smashed, but its insane the only chance to win a defence, is if a defence outhp's the attack atleast quite a bit with less players

for smalls only chance to win a defence is if your full online or close to full online and are facing a majorly offline defence.

but come on fix this lets give defences a chance like in the old days by good swapping and teamwork rather then throwing horseloads of hp in front of the reds hoping they don't reach the flag
 

DeletedUser34315

Until stamina doesn't provide aim/dodge bonuses on attack, tanks will continue to be very powerful on attacks. It should really be switched to a dexterity or mobility skill- so that being a tank means you won't have ridiculously good chances to hit and dodge.
 

DeletedUser16008

Man stop whining Zeta it was defended and well so defences are hard atm, big deal attacks have been like it for years, things will be worked out as they always are.

There is nothing hard about defenders just swopping in the sweet spots just good teamwork, so forts change hands a lot... good theres nowhere near enough of them anyway and since last year its been almost a waste of time for smaller alliances as they never get a look in.

Perhaps the big guys should be avoiding the small forts and leave em to the smaller alliances to have fun in.

One thing ive noticed is that when things start to turn they do so drastically .. either your on the ball or your not.

Mediums are the easiest to attack and take .. always have been. I see a good defence and an attack that waited too long to mount the adven which was an opportunity missed.

Come on battles are supposed to be hard won and they have been for years see no reason why they should'nt be hard to defend now, the strong survive and those that adapt will prevail. Just have to think a bit different than before thats all.

When crits get fixed itll be different again, have patience.
 

DeletedUser25707

What make you think crits will be fixed... it's been what, almost a month now since the update? I think that if Inno wanted to fix it, they would by now...
 

Zeta-Navy

Man stop whining Zeta it was defended and well so defences are hard atm, big deal attacks have been like it for years, things will be worked out as they always are.

There is nothing hard about defenders just swopping in the sweet spots just good teamwork, so forts change hands a lot... good theres nowhere near enough of them anyway and since last year its been almost a waste of time for smaller alliances as they never get a look in.

Perhaps the big guys should be avoiding the small forts and leave em to the smaller alliances to have fun in.

One thing ive noticed is that when things start to turn they do so drastically .. either your on the ball or your not.

Mediums are the easiest to attack and take .. always have been. I see a good defence and an attack that waited too long to mount the adven which was an opportunity missed.

Come on battles are supposed to be hard won and they have been for years see no reason why they should'nt be hard to defend now, the strong survive and those that adapt will prevail. Just have to think a bit different than before thats all.

When crits get fixed itll be different again, have patience.

victor i was in the attack, and am actually happy we didn't win, that 1 (look at round 20 or so if we wanted a rush was right open it was the leaders choice to have a bit of more fun first) since it saves us from some defence where we attend and at the end it results in a 90 vs 0 los, all teamwork we can do, hp is just unbeatable.

look at a fight, is it normal that a team that has massive offliners, that has almost 1.8k per person on average less hp then all those online defenders, nearly win or in other words coulda won?

just numbers: 100 attackers 5.7k hp per person average, with loads of offliners that been without los as well,
vs
84 defenders nearly 7.5k hp average per person mostly online and swapping.

you think its normal that such an attack, which wasn't even greatly or close to it executed smashes up the defence totally? the defence who swapped like hell and teamplayed a lot but still lost almost all defenders?

you refer to the past, but you could win attacks with good leads despite small hp advantages vs poor defences, but you needed excellent teamwork and good leads

and in opposite defenders could win vs an defence vs a way higher on hp attack, by awesome teamwork and swapping and tactics.

now get enough hp, and defence can do what they like, attackers can run all about but its barely if not impossible to defend.

thats what i am whining again, i agree attacking might have been to hard, but let me remind you also of the goals the admins wanted:

less importance in hp, more focus on skills, which should cause more teamwork and tactics. all of these aren't true, only way to win a defence is with a massive hp advantage or facing a horseload of offliners you can block off, and to win any attack, set sensible offline orders and make sure you got enough hp and numbers.

its just not good, and there no new worlds, but who would build a fort they can never defend? whats the point, you can only win defences if you are sure the other alliance outhp's the other alliance massively. these days its normal that attackers on the ground end up with as high or atleast close to the top dodges of defenders on own class towers, not to mention that most attackers do more damage from the ground then defenders from the towers?

and just swapping win defences? watch the next fight, they swapped all they could attack had some with bad offline orders, and quite a few offliners, but a full online defence could swap all they wanted but they still all died:
http://www.westforts.com/en15/battles/battle/21768

and i can show you enough examples of online defences that swapped all they could and still got shots to pieces, all teamwork and effort they tried failed,
 

DeletedUser22685

When crits get fixed itll be different again, have patience.

That's something I'd also like to mention. Defences consist of less players, but have an equal or even higher average HP than attacks (more people show up for defences so rankers are able to choose people with higher HP, plus there's less spaces for low HP players which also affects average HP). This means that they'll suffer more at the hands of overpowered crits than attackers, as they're losing a greater percentage of their overall HP per crit.
 

killado

One thing i keep seeing is that the bonus of the towers and walls now doesn´t mean anything.

Just using 1 buff from the shop or the craft and an attacker on the ground can get higher attack and defense than people on the towers and walls (level 120 for everyone).

With the changes that were implemented that got so high that people with 10k hp, use a buff and get the same values that a guy with 5k on his own tower.
That´s why the attacks are overpowering any defense... but if the defense jumps with many buffs, they too can take out the attack.

The rules that where talked were: taking hp to be a negative point on everything else.
But, that was just made for those that got everything on hp. Right now aiming and evasion means nothing for a fort fight.
Leadership got a big boost.

And it keeps protecting the ones that get 10k hp an just get online to be on the fort battles. (before they worked to get products for there "friends" now they just login to register and move to the fort and, again, to participate on the fight)
 

DeletedUser19385

Agree with Zeta. As it is now you almost need to be imbecil not to win attack with same hp and onliners as defenders.

Vic you should try FF on more worlds than w1 to really be able to speak about it.
 

DeletedUser16008

Agree with Zeta. As it is now you almost need to be imbecil not to win attack with same hp and onliners as defenders.

Vic you should try FF on more worlds than w1 to really be able to speak about it.

I dont need to I have westforts and watch replays thx ;). Attack on colorado in meds typically have 120 - 150k more hp or typically 710K vs 540 odd quite an advantage .. the extra 16 are averaging about 8k a head..

Now if you inisist on everyone still being tanks with the changes you create in part your own problem, especially when tanks have stamina and no hiding. w14 the same think about 120k + etc etc gen meds are easy to take on. I dont see many large there at all the latest large conquered had 975k vs 800k surprise surprise another 834k vs 892k was defended.

Im not going to go into the reasons I think its healthy the def has to work hard now and forts change hands more often but tanks will be tanks and 150k or more with attackers has become so usual on the old system as it was required its hardly surprising its having such an effect on the new one.... What harm has it done tanks ? none at all is the answer unless youve got about 25 facing 100 at point blank buffed.. then sure itll hurt.

Ill confess I see no logic to greater damage being dealt and the new system supposedly discouraging tanks when stamina is an attacking skill so they 2 for the price of one and the defenders tanks have virtually nothing on hiding and killado is quite right about towers and walls not making any difference when the attack is buffed to the hilt. with stamina they cancel out any advantage the defenders may have... Personally it drop the numbers to even sides.

You cant always fix a problem by upping the anti and adding better damage for good battles to discourage tanks. I choose not to partake in pure HP worlds for a very good reason. Forts for me are long since broken and they swing from one ridiculous extreme to the other and have done for years. This change is no different just a different spin im sure people will work it out until the next time.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Zeta-Navy

I dont need to I have westforts and watch replays thx ;). Attack on colorado in meds typically have 120 - 150k more hp or typically 710K vs 540 odd quite an advantage .. the extra 16 are averaging about 8k a head..

Now if you inisist on everyone still being tanks with the changes you create in part your own problem, especially when tanks have stamina and no hiding. w14 the same think about 120k + etc etc gen meds are easy to take on. I dont see many large there at all the latest large conquered had 975k vs 800k surprise surprise another 834k vs 892k was defended.

Im not going to go into the reasons I think its healthy the def has to work hard now and forts change hands more often but tanks will be tanks and 150k or more with attackers has become so usual on the old system as it was required its hardly surprising its having such an effect on the new one.... What harm has it done tanks ? none at all is the answer unless youve got about 25 facing 100 at point blank buffed.. then sure itll hurt.

Ill confess I see no logic to greater damage being dealt and the new system supposedly discouraging tanks when stamina is an attacking skill so they 2 for the price of one and the defenders tanks have virtually nothing on hiding and killado is quite right about towers and walls not making any difference when the attack is buffed to the hilt. with stamina they cancel out any advantage the defenders may have... Personally it drop the numbers to even sides.

You cant always fix a problem by upping the anti and adding better damage for good battles to discourage tanks. I choose not to partake in pure HP worlds for a very good reason. Forts for me are long since broken and they swing from one ridiculous extreme to the other and have done for years. This change is no different just a different spin im sure people will work it out until the next time.


710 vs 540k, yeah even in old system you woulda won that, but if you got 570k hp in attack(so attackers have 5.7k hp average per head) and 640k hp in an online defence(thus 7.5k hp a head), they swap all they can, and still the attack can totally kill the defence, no matter how good they swap?

and all those tanks? highly skilled 200 stamina+hiding duellers with due to skills only 4k hp on DT die in 1 round, they cannot survive a round on point if you corner the tower. So yeah lets all get skills massively so no one can take point again.

Also HP did drop drastically almost every 12-13-14-15k tank these days is 9-10-11k generally having around 150 hiding= +15 ff attack and defence, yet they cannot even dodge half the hits they could before, what they gotta do drop another 2k hp and get 250 hiding for some +25 attack and defence bonus? they still barely dodge better then they do now.

ow and to come back to the med attack i gave as example, it wasn't due to overpowerfull crits that defence got so badly smashed(ok attack didn't win but almost all defenders died), cos the attack had a low share of duellers even lower share of prem duellers.
 

DeletedUser22685

what they gotta do drop another 2k hp and get 250 hiding for some +25 attack and defence bonus? they still barely dodge better then they do now.

Actually, a +25 attack and defence bonus would make a world of difference.
 

Zeta-Navy

Actually, a +25 attack and defence bonus would make a world of difference.

i got that on dakota, on a level 5 DT large fort i managed 12 hits taken and 8 dodges, where next to me a full hp fortfighter1 got 60 dodges without any of those skills

ok its the random factor playing, but i got such an overskilled build there and still can't dodge a damn

what people maybe forget is the effect of the new skill formula on the existing hitting and dodging in FF formula.

before you had 50 ff attack vs 70 ff defence, and now you got 70 ff attack vs 90 ff defence

the difference remains 20, but 70/90 gives a whole different numbers then 70/90 (yeah this is not the exact formula i got that written down somewhere but to lazy to look it up)

though simply in reality also due to the fact if you not are pure strength these days as fortfighter your a full that 50/70 is now a 70/80... nevertheless even if it had been 70/90 theres a huge effect on the chance to hit and dodge formula due to the increasing of those numbers

besides changing stamina, adjusting that formula would solve quite a bit. but the current way is just not working
 

rohith4444

Well-Known Member
sorry if i misread your post Zeta
if u talking about the stats of bonuses
my hit and dodges chance ,
in defense (prem soldier) on ST 124.21 / 104.40 and 95+ / 70+ on WT ,DT, AT in defense and 120+ / 100+ in attack if i get chance to mount ST and 80+ / 70 on ground as attacker.
so i don't think defenders have +20 bonuses than attackers :hmf: if my reply is not related to your post just ignore it or tell me i am wrong :p
 

DeletedUser20647

before you had 50 ff attack vs 70 ff defence, and now you got 70 ff attack vs 90 ff defence
That only gives you about 5-6% more chance to hit. So the damage of the attackers would've improved by that amount if the defenders had as much hiding as the attackers. I think they have a lot less though, so the damage of the attackers has improved by more than that.
 

Zeta-Navy

That only gives you about 5-6% more chance to hit. So the damage of the attackers would've improved by that amount if the defenders had as much hiding as the attackers. I think they have a lot less though, so the damage of the attackers has improved by more than that.

ofcourse but just trying to make clear not only that due to easy stamina chances to hit got increase, but also the effect of higher stats on the formula has his impact besides that stamina got to overpowered

that is why i think changing stamina would be great, that way you have to really choose for skills instead of just going full str and get insanely strong for defence with hp already

attacks will still be stronger then before like i said due to the impact of the higher stats on the hit and dodge formula's
 

Felicity Crumpet

Well-Known Member
As Victor says, attackers being more powerful works two ways, means the defenders that lost a fort can have fun taking it back. Better than throwing in the towel, anyway. :)
 

DeletedUser19385

Just wonder if Inno ever gonna wake up and change the formula so we can get good battles again? Or we just gonna keep on with these easy attacks and impossible defences?
 

Zeta-Navy

they are working on a new formula seeing devblog, they say it makes it more easy to understand, but i honestly i think it doesn't work, and they trying to find a way to complicated solution, but indeed they are darn slacking
 

DeletedUser25947

bring back old formula and look for improvements elsewhere ( number of rounds, terrain bonuses, better FF gear, better buffs ) . STOP playing around trying to fix something which WASNT broken to start with.
 
Top