Introduce the fort fighting NPCs for hire

[ScarletKisses]

I am with Annie on this one.....either fix the worlds.....aka MERGE. The thought of tossing some npc's to keep forting alive is silly. They should do that in order to fill an adventure, especially when it is a quest requirement. TBH, inno only keeps this game active in order to milk peeps with nugget purchases. I just find hilarious that y'all are looking at the bright side of npc's in fort battle........

I agree and disagree with this, you are right obviously I think everyone would prefer to have new real players ( not multis ) which is a HUGE issue in the game but that's another story. Not having to use NCP to top up FF numbers. But I feel we are way past this as a solution. Migration into other worlds doesn't really make any difference because a lot cant migrate as they already have toons in these world.
Its usually the same players joining the new worlds too.
To be honest Like you say inno are milking the new worlds as cash cow.. What will happen to the whole game if this is not happening
If they are not making money like they used to it will close

 

[Goober Pyle]

Nothing that requires a new game mechanic is remotely likely to happen. with NPCs there are really only 3 options very dependent on availability of Team Members

1) (most likely, though I still need to run some tests to confirm this works reliably now, it might not in which case it would require supporters to move the NPCs after each battle) NPCs are unset and townless, they just live at awesomia and show up when fort battle team adds them to a battle

2) NPCs have a standard set of orders and any that are used follow those orders (a supporter for that world needs to log in as the NPC and set it)

3) (basically impossible) NPCs are played by supporters, following (or not!) orders as the supporters choose.

Regardless, simply creating the NPCs is a LOT of work only the CMs can do so needs the full support of the whole event team and a well developed plan and support of the players to justify the effort.

 

[DeletedUser15368]

I understand the concerns but if the FF leader had control of them that would be awesome

In that case, I'd rather have control of the offline players to some degree - Honestly if we need to start filling battles with non playable characters just to have a battle, it's time to pack it in instead.

 

[Harriet Oleson]

In that case, I'd rather have control of the offline players to some degree

I suggested not so long ago a possibility of swapping offies (like : if we set our toon on an offline toon and the offline toon isn't already set elsewhere, the swap would be automatically accepted; the toon's owner could cancel it if he gets online and in the FF before the end of the round as for normal swap). With something like this, we could be able to move the offies where we want by doing swaps and without changing the current system of FF. I think it could lead to some new strategic aspects in FF for onliners, be incentive to participate more even if offline, and potentially not difficult to implement. I think ? The swap system is already implemented and in principle there's already a signal emitted when we get online or offline, I guess it could be used for this ...

I suggested this as an example of new game possibility which could become a new class char bonus; it was in the middle of other suggestions about class char bonuses, so nobody reacted to this suggestion in particular and I've never known if the idea was something worthy to insist for or not.

Whatever if it is for a char class bonus or for everyone, do you think it could be a good thing for the game ?

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Sorry for the digression in your thread Clever Hans, so to give my opinion about your idea : I have a mixed opinion about it. I don't really see how the NPC would be handled, as well as in lots of cases, from what I understand of the idea, it seems to me it could participate to imbalance more the fights instead of balancing them. I mean :
in all cases where the biggest/strongest side would use a better option than the other side, the fight would be even more advantageous for them, no ? It would add more fighters to a side which already has more fighters/is stronger than the other side ... Same if both sides use the same option : the biggest side would still be the biggest one and the gap between sides should be even bigger cause % and not flat values.

Still from what I understand of the idea, I think it could indeed help to balance but only if the smallest/weakest side would use a better option than the other side and if there were some limitations in all other cases, to not imbalance instead of balancing. The thing is we can't know before the battle starts which side is the biggets/strongest one ... Maybe with a refund system in case no NPC could be hired cause side already bigger ? Don't know. I think that's an interesting idea though, but difficult to implement, and with a risk of bigger imbalance if there aren't some limitations.

 

[Victor Kruger]

50% of most FF are on multiple worlds... if they merged youd have not many more FF attending imo., not with only one toon allowed on a world.. .. bottom line is inno rakes in far more from getting all these multi world players shell out for gear everywhere... innos revenue would tank like a stone if they merged.. careful what you wish for ... inno would be more likely after a year to scrap it entirely cos a couple of worlds wont pay the bills ... its not 2012 and games have changed for the masses demands and TW isnt one..

FF have been a dead feature walking for years and since the lvl cap raise painfully clear they arnt worth most getting excited about anymore, its become monotonous and like groundhog day for years... its inevitable most will stop wasting their time on it.. in fact players mostly have.. then theres the undeniable cliques of those who invest heavily or comrades on one world mostly all sticking together in the same groups on way too many other worlds, its understandable why ofc but looking from outside in its the opposite.. it dosnt help the majority or casual players fun i assure you. Why bother going along to get raped if your not a FF nut ? . Then people wonder why the player base who have a life and like a variety or friends and doing different things in the game apart from FF and without pouring $$$ into gear thats useless in a few years without massive investing on upgrades dont go to most FF anywhere anymore.... to be wrecked daily & lose all energy in an hr are you kidding me ? ... its not rocket science ... its just not fun anymore for way too many capable and casual alike, the attendance on most worlds bares that out... .. so better to go do stuff more interesting ... if your not addicted to TW your probably in that camp.. these days mostly i log in just to chat to old friends and maybe pop along to the odd FF if i have some time spare but FF on every world ? naaa you mad bro im not spending lots of time on what is now a very sub standard game evening after evening anymore either.. .. i cant get excited either about no FF tactics just brute force damagers and HP .. Yawn! .. no variety and the same old gangs world after world... sorry, imo flogging that dead worse wont imo alter a thing without a drastic change .... NPC is at least something... merging will do nothing for the majority or turnouts imo.

Should maybe open a classic world full time... knock back the max lvl to 99 there and reboot V1 ... easy and instant gratification isnt necessarily that appealing. Of course inno should have done something when there was more than 15000 players on a world not 1500 of which 50% are the same players all over many worlds but it is what it is... the community is cool in the main but thats about all i log in for now, FF are a chore that give nothing but something to do for an hr... might as well play classic as that was a slow burner game more than rushing about as is now... IF they made FF travel instant you might get more showing up if coulkd work until last min or with more free work slots etc but at this late stage... i doubt it.

You cant make players bored with FF bother going .. its an hr of peoples time & time is the one thing no one can get back.. hence many offies now too.. lucky on some worlds to have double didgits online with the other 2 /3 off ... am i excited about that ? naaaa, sad state of affairs but end of the day it is just an old game way past its sell by date.

The two only options are.. get more new fresh players ... but lets be honest... this game isnt even what it used to be and no matter how much you polish a turd it'll still be one... newbies dont hang around and cant say i blame them .. or

NPC FF... BUT re towns or players hiring would only result in the usual spenders having all the advantage ... NPC would have to be added by the game mechanic somehow to even the sides, if they could be set by battle leader say once every 5 rds would imo make it no worse than it is now for fun and add in an elememt of surprise and risk.... FF are past the point of no return imo without a drastic move so... Id vote for NPCs ...anything to shake it up and add something different... games dead already so nothing to lose..

 

[Thanatoss]

We already have bots multi accounts why the hell do we need npcs?

 

[Clever Hans]

50% of most FF are on multiple worlds... if they merged youd have not many more FF attending imo., not with only one toon allowed on a world.. .. bottom line is inno rakes in far more from getting all these multi world players shell out for gear everywhere... innos revenue would tank like a stone if they merged.. careful what you wish for ... inno would be more likely after a year to scrap it entirely cos a couple of worlds wont pay the bills ... its not 2012 and games have changed for the masses demands and TW isnt one..

FF have been a dead feature walking for years and since the lvl cap raise painfully clear they arnt worth most getting excited about anymore, its become monotonous and like groundhog day for years... its inevitable most will stop wasting their time on it.. in fact players mostly have.. then theres the undeniable cliques of those who invest heavily or comrades on one world mostly all sticking together in the same groups on way too many other worlds, its understandable why ofc but looking from outside in its the opposite.. it dosnt help the majority or casual players fun i assure you. Why bother going along to get raped if your not a FF nut ? . Then people wonder why the player base who have a life and like a variety or friends and doing different things in the game apart from FF and without pouring $$$ into gear thats useless in a few years without massive investing on upgrades dont go to most FF anywhere anymore.... to be wrecked daily & lose all energy in an hr are you kidding me ? ... its not rocket science ... its just not fun anymore for way too many capable and casual alike, the attendance on most worlds bares that out... .. so better to go do stuff more interesting ... if your not addicted to TW your probably in that camp.. these days mostly i log in just to chat to old friends and maybe pop along to the odd FF if i have some time spare but FF on every world ? naaa you mad bro im not spending lots of time on what is now a very sub standard game evening after evening anymore either.. .. i cant get excited either about no FF tactics just brute force damagers and HP .. Yawn! .. no variety and the same old gangs world after world... sorry, imo flogging that dead worse wont imo alter a thing without a drastic change .... NPC is at least something... merging will do nothing for the majority or turnouts imo.

Should maybe open a classic world full time... knock back the max lvl to 99 there and reboot V1 ... easy and instant gratification isnt necessarily that appealing. Of course inno should have done something when there was more than 15000 players on a world not 1500 of which 50% are the same players all over many worlds but it is what it is... the community is cool in the main but thats about all i log in for now, FF are a chore that give nothing but something to do for an hr... might as well play classic as that was a slow burner game more than rushing about as is now... IF they made FF travel instant you might get more showing up if coulkd work until last min or with more free work slots etc but at this late stage... i doubt it.

You cant make players bored with FF bother going .. its an hr of peoples time & time is the one thing no one can get back.. hence many offies now too.. lucky on some worlds to have double didgits online with the other 2 /3 off ... am i excited about that ? naaaa, sad state of affairs but end of the day it is just an old game way past its sell by date.

The two only options are.. get more new fresh players ... but lets be honest... this game isnt even what it used to be and no matter how much you polish a turd it'll still be one... newbies dont hang around and cant say i blame them .. or

NPC FF... BUT re towns or players hiring would only result in the usual spenders having all the advantage ... NPC would have to be added by the game mechanic somehow to even the sides, if they could be set by battle leader say once every 5 rds would imo make it no worse than it is now for fun and add in an elememt of surprise and risk.... FF are past the point of no return imo without a drastic move so... Id vote for NPCs ...anything to shake it up and add something different... games dead already so nothing to lose..

Exactly, it´s not like I would be suggesting this if there were even small forts filled anywhere else outside of Colorado. And I agree about FFs currently not being worth the invested time and usual groups dominating battles on multiple worlds. There were also discussions that the reward system would get revamped back in February when Diggo made last 2 FF related updates and nothing has been done since then.

 

[Annie-Bell]

I remember laughing when watched old movie (80s) .. would show clip of classroom where teacher would walk in to full class, but teacher was a bore and just kept plugging along .. next clip .. think was even old tape recorders on few desks so "real person" didnt have to be there.. while later quick cut back to classroom, half desks with taperecorders (not even computers so could do virtual) .. then movie continues ... then shot back at classroom .. 100% of desks with taperecorders on desk .. teacher just sighed and did his boring lecture. Last clip back was all desks recorders replaced real people and on teachers desk was teachers' tape recorder giving lecture to the non real life students .. forgot what movie was but when i saw this, that movie came to mind, and think npc ff'ers just horrible idea

I am happy to see 86% of votes on this survey say nah to idea of filling battles with npcs .. for so many different reasons. It makes sense in my mind that some old old worlds had thier hay day and migration into healthier worlds make sense. Seen some of that with galv and houston migrations but stil alot left to migrate, if at all .. but what DID happen is players (often critics, who want npc's) came back to healthier worlds which had open migration and are themselves proving dont need npc, just need people, and leaders (pls don say next idea is npc leaders .. teehee) .. need to retain and attract real players, not multis, not npc's. Some worlds still have potential, others do not and hopefully will be migrated out to healthier worlds sooner then later, returned players is the indicator of its possible.

So many things with npc .... first, it doesnt answer question why brand last couple new worlds not filling smalls (figure it out, fix it, up to players), having leader control npc's??? in some worlds, even new world, 20 people a side so suggesting 1 person controls 25 npcs? isnt that against some type of rule? Also would be nitemare for inno, someone will always complain, or question of are these npc duelers, tanks, advents? what level? 150? 100? who determines what? then there is concept if real live lvl 30 player wants to ff he may be asked not to go cause they prefer a level 100 npc? Or how fair if one side does do recruiting old fashioned way by building trust and respect with players and other side just waits to get their npc handouts? Then continue on to omg how dull ff's will be if over time less and less show up online cause bored outta mind playing along side npcs (like my little example of classroom above)..

Nah to npc, we have seen worlds where there is alot of effort put in where people are returning, migrations happening, and new players signing up .. far superior to lazy ask for npc's. Do know game shrinking (fraction of what it used to be is not doubt in anyone's mind) .. but make most of what left. And that people, people make this game.

 

[Killer Bonnie]

I am on the fence for this proposal

This looks like partial similarity to Scoundrels to me from 2010

https://forum.the-west.net/index.php?threads/game-mastered-event.43569/

• The Scoundrels total approximately 15 NPCs and a few PCs, all managed by staff members. Their levels range from 25 to 125. NPC standard levels and duel levels are fixed, although they will vary a bit each week (Levels for NPCs are reset once a week).

I think proposal should be only to support attacks and not defends

In the proposal above

10000$ - adds NPCs as 5% of total number of ranks in defense / attack
15000$ - adds NPCs as 10% of total number of ranks in defense / attack
25000$ - adds NPCs as 20% of total number of ranks in defense / attack

So its only asking for a percentage of the number signed for battle < I do not approve signed for both sides because it should only be to support attacks

30 x .05 is 1.5 so this would mean only 2 npcs to help
10% =3
20% = 6

Its a bit steep to pay 10k for just 2 of these npcs price should be modified some

Attacking a fort

• Scoundrel Gang per fort war = $10,000 < in 2010 it was 10k for a gang of minimum of 10 I think 10 is a bit high of a number for these npcs The proposal of just 2 - 6 seems more reasonable or percentage based on how many are signed but price needs adjusting (they probably had full or nearly full ffs in 2010)

• Individual Scoundrel Hire per fort war = $2,000

Hiring the Scoundrel Gang includes a guaranteed minimum of 10 gang members, or no charge will be incurred. Scoundrels are not available for hire to defend forts, only to attack forts. Contracting the Scoundrels requires a minimum 24 hour notice. You may request confidentiality, or notoriety, for the attacks. Please indicate your preference when contracting the Gang's services.

You may hire the Scoundrels to terrorize a particular county, alliance, or township, or to assist in attacking a fort, with the cash removed from your town's treasury. The price are posted below. < Taken from Scoundrels The Npcs can only sign Attack not Defense

Attacks are not supported as much as Defends are even in a event where we get double to die


Contracting the Scoundrels requires a minimum 24 hour notice. < I think I would scratch this part also as we would need to see how many sign ups we get to see for sure if we need the added help or not I think up to 2 hours befor battle should be enough time to ask for 2 - 6 more players the way the scoundrels is proposed the team would have to know befor they dug since its 24 hours from dig to ff Where what we really want is Real Player Support rather than npcs

Now for my questions
These npcs would be managed by Inno staff as it says in Scoundrels ? Inno did hire a bunch more fort battle strategists So as a player not leading the battle I could see the possibility of a fort battle strategist controling the npcs
Or would they be like more offies? We really dont need more offies since offies are around 30 - 50% of the players in the ff
What would determine the type of npcs we would get? 1 team needs more tanks the other needs more damagers What determines what their role is Do we get to choose when asking for support?
How do we determine the level of these npcs? In Scoundrels they were level 25 to 125 Now players levels are increased so for the battle to be competitive levels would need to be similar to todays levels

 

[Clever Hans]

I am happy to see 86% of votes on this survey say nah to idea of filling battles with npcs .. for so many different reasons. It makes sense in my mind that some old old worlds had thier hay day and migration into healthier worlds make sense. Seen some of that with galv and houston migrations but stil alot left to migrate, if at all .. but what DID happen is players (often critics, who want npc's) came back to healthier worlds which had open migration and are themselves proving dont need npc, just need people, and leaders (pls don say next idea is npc leaders .. teehee) .. need to retain and attract real players, not multis, not npc's. Some worlds still have potential, others do not and hopefully will be migrated out to healthier worlds sooner then later, returned players is the indicator of its possible.

Well, it is easy to manipulate the votes on the forum if you invite your friends and alliance to vote for certain option like you did recently at
Juarez world forum (https://prnt.sc/3c2cO-cwmAtu). I am sure that the result would be quite different if this would get surveyed in-game and with more details provided.

 

[Killer Bonnie]

I feel I need to add There should have to be a real need for this to happen as in The attack numbers cant exceed the defense numbers befor it is triggered and maybe (I know I said up there in previous comment up to 2 hours befor battle but I myself am not at the fort for battle until just minutes befor the battle) So maybe it should be something that is only triggered right befor the battle like an option that pops up in ranking screen You are short on attacker would you like to hire some scoundrels type thing The idea is not to promote slaughter battles which no one likes but to promote Competitive battles where either side can win instead of defense winning all the time There could be probably as simple as fort strategist hitting a button and poof x % of npcs have joined the battle depending on how much difference there is between the 2 sides. I would also add that once the npcs are added it cant exceed the 1.1 attack to 1 defense ratio because 1.2 or 1.3 becomes too much and isnt competitive but with a few minutes remaining for them to recieve their ranks and be in proper gear. maybe the ff leader doesnt even know who they are just that they hired npcs to take up deficit. Because what we really want is real players to join and participate.

I will also state that there have been issues all along with fort fights even from that far back (Scoundrels was played in 2010) In old forum threads you can read about Natty Bumpo being OP etc.. lol (I think was the first fort set to be created) My point Fort battle issues have been there all along since fort battles started and are not anyones fault. Perhaps players should support their teams on attacks to start with Players themselves do a lot for if battles are good or not

 

[Victor Kruger]

The idea of NPCs open many options

Just one example

The Mirror NPC

A feature up linked to those only online at battle, when certain critrea were met. ( whatever Inno decided that was )

A mirror NPC of you spawns rd 2 or when you first move and follows 1 rd behind in movement, with 50% mirrored stats, HP included, can die the same as any offline player etc. The active FF who is being mirrored gets exp etc added to theirs at the end report.

 

[Annie-Bell]

I am with Annie on this one.....either fix the worlds.....aka MERGE. The thought of tossing some npc's to keep forting alive is silly. They should do that in order to fill an adventure, especially when it is a quest requirement. TBH, inno only keeps this game active in order to milk peeps with nugget purchases. I just find hilarious that y'all are looking at the bright side of npc's in fort battle........

honestly, luv idea for adventure stuff, so many worlds where need adventure but cant keep waiting in que for 1 hour at time. Also liked idea of a npc crafter in some worlds impossible to find some crafting and none of us get quests done with adventures or enough crafters and fair available to all.

that would be beneficial and doest harm the essence of game (ie duelling, questing, or ff's) for overall.

luv that idea