DeletedUser
The USA can disappear people like the Gestapo!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/18/indefinite-detention-bill-fails_n_1525659.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/18/indefinite-detention-bill-fails_n_1525659.html
DeletedUser
Our liberty is being eroded bit by bit.....great......
DeletedUser
This law basically says the US government can abduct anyone anywhere and hold them without telling anyone forever... No trial, no judge, no jury, no reason, or oversight!This is really the scariest thing I have ever read!
And before you say they cannot do this to US citizens without presidential approval, who are you going to tell you are a US citizen?! Remember no trial, no judge, no due process, and no recourse. But it only applies to suspected terrorists! who are you going to tell you are not a terrorist?! Remember no trial, no judge, and no due process! This has no geographical limits! Does not matter what country you are a citizen of! They can do this to anyone anywhere and they can kill you and no one would ever know.
And before you say they cannot do this to US citizens without presidential approval, who are you going to tell you are a US citizen?! Remember no trial, no judge, no due process, and no recourse. But it only applies to suspected terrorists! who are you going to tell you are not a terrorist?! Remember no trial, no judge, and no due process! This has no geographical limits! Does not matter what country you are a citizen of! They can do this to anyone anywhere and they can kill you and no one would ever know.
DeletedUser15057
Hmm...... I wonder why Julian Assange and Kim Dotcom are fighting extradition to the US? 
DeletedUser563
I never see the argument for it really. I mean having an audience in a court is also part of an accused's rights - as proceedings must be seen to be public. But in almost all law system there is circumstance where for instance the accused can appear in a closed session(if its considered a security risk). The thing is with these measures you are trying to legitimize the violation of rights(the right to apply for and be given bail) as I suppose the fear is these people may abscond before the trial when given such an opportunity which one can counter just as easily but if there is such a likelihood then this will be obviously a factor in denying bail.
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DeletedUser
The future of anyone who the government thinks might be a threat...
Really scary!
Really scary!
DeletedUser563
willypete according to most concepts of international law you cannot arrest a citizen in another country however if there is a international agreement that member countries agree to you, you can for example world heritage sites if a country join they will add a law of their own regulating world heritage sites. So from my limited knowledge of international law if you are arrested by the us in another country and they cannot justify their right to have arrested you, you can legitimately escape including killing and injuring anyone that stands in your way. Not 100% certain about the killing and injuring part but that is far as I can remember the one article I read on the subject.
DeletedUser
The US military can do allot of things they are not suppose to do, and good luck fighting back... Just look at Bin Ladd...
DeletedUser563
Yes in their own country and if these puppet governments like Iraq sign into such law and of course if they arrange it with the secret services of another country. I actually remember them abducting a indian south african or pakistani cant remember which and taking him out the country. however its borderline imo at best and one day one of those squads will get killed entirely in which case it will be probably hushed . In fact what turns at 1500 - 2000 revolution per minute? The founding fathers at the crap your current goverment/s is pulling.
DeletedUser
Last I checked Pakistan did not exactly give the US gov permission to raid OBL's fortress and assassinate him and his bodyguards.... not that I will be shedding any tears for the guy but if they can do that in , they can do that anywhere to anyone.
http://rt.com/usa/news/detention-amendment-ndaa-rep-599/
DeletedUser
A lot of the things coming down the pipe here in the USA are pretty scary.
http://rt.com/usa/news/obama-cispa-white-house-883/
http://rt.com/usa/news/fbi-mueller-assassination-holder-193/
http://rt.com/usa/news/chicago-obama-al-awlaki-holder-901/
And then there are all the anti-gun laws...
The freedoms we thought were rights are disappearing at a rapid rate.
The government can spy on us, take away our right to due process and freedom of speech, and have taken away our right to bear arms in many states, and they can even kill us. Its Atlas Shrugged in action. People are even giving up their citizenship and moving away to escape the tyranny.
http://rt.com/usa/news/obama-cispa-white-house-883/
http://rt.com/usa/news/fbi-mueller-assassination-holder-193/
http://rt.com/usa/news/chicago-obama-al-awlaki-holder-901/
And then there are all the anti-gun laws...
The freedoms we thought were rights are disappearing at a rapid rate.
The government can spy on us, take away our right to due process and freedom of speech, and have taken away our right to bear arms in many states, and they can even kill us. Its Atlas Shrugged in action. People are even giving up their citizenship and moving away to escape the tyranny.
DeletedUser563
Perhaps they didnt but there is a lot of difference between osama that killed 5000 us citizens and normal persons. I expect it might also have been a case if you went through the channels he might have been tipped off. Someone like hellstrommelmyr might be able to answer that but I think one of our debates might have given him a minor heart attack as i have not seen him here in quite a while.
DeletedUser
No matter the reason if they can kill armed soldiers/bodyguards in a fortified position and dump his body in the ocean without the host nation being the wiser, pulling you or the average Joe off the street coming home from the market would be child's play, and if these types of laws are permitted to stand they don't need the permission.
DeletedUser16008
Welcome to hell Willypete.
Its amazing how slow people are to pick up on this. I mentioned this back at xmas when everyone was looking the other way, as usual.
Ill say it again 1984 is here, it is rolling out, it is planned for and being introduced in stages. Covertly, with misdirection, blatantly in small bits that don't draw too much attention and with cold intention.
These laws will stand until one day people say enough, we are unfortunately a long long way from that happening and the current policy is to impoverish everyone but the few until nearly all are dependent on the state and tolerate anything just to be able to survive.
Before we are done with this paradigm the developed world will be taken to the brink and probably collapse. At which point there will be a solution rolled out much the same as 1984. Problem, Reaction, Solution.
Instigate a problem, wait for the reaction, and then when people are desperate enough give them the solution. Believe me people will accept just about anything when desperate enough, ask Germany.
Its amazing how slow people are to pick up on this. I mentioned this back at xmas when everyone was looking the other way, as usual.
Ill say it again 1984 is here, it is rolling out, it is planned for and being introduced in stages. Covertly, with misdirection, blatantly in small bits that don't draw too much attention and with cold intention.
These laws will stand until one day people say enough, we are unfortunately a long long way from that happening and the current policy is to impoverish everyone but the few until nearly all are dependent on the state and tolerate anything just to be able to survive.
Before we are done with this paradigm the developed world will be taken to the brink and probably collapse. At which point there will be a solution rolled out much the same as 1984. Problem, Reaction, Solution.
Instigate a problem, wait for the reaction, and then when people are desperate enough give them the solution. Believe me people will accept just about anything when desperate enough, ask Germany.
DeletedUser
It's probably unconstitutional, it's certainly immoral and in violation of any number of human rights statutes. If the US electorate will stand for this, then shame on them.
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DeletedUser
Few of them even know about this and of those few, even fewer care at all.
DeletedUser
I don't understand why people are suddenly so upset about it. It went into effect well before the end of the Bush administration... unless something new has been added since then.
DeletedUser
People were upset about it when it went into effect during the Republican Bush administration and the Republican held Congress and are upset about it still being in effect due to a Republican-held House. Please note, this latest vote (as the previous vote that put this atrocity into effect) was firmly down party lines with almost all Republicans in the House voting to keep indefinite detention (and removal of due process., i.e., the right to file a writ of habeas corpus) as opposed to almost all the Democrats in the House voting to re-institute rights to the accused.
Now, are you guys still wanting a Republican in the White House?
Now, are you guys still wanting a Republican in the White House?
DeletedUser16008
Indeed is has. December 2011 everything changed, from detaining others indefinitely which was of course not really of interest to the American public because they must deserve it and the good ol US wouldn't or couldn't be wrong detaining those nasty foreign terrorists to....... include american citizens on american soil.
The controversial components of the bill can be broken down into two parts. The first questionable portion of the bill (section 1031) explicitly exempts U.S. citizens, and according to Slate, states that the government would be mandated to place into military custody:
“any suspected member of Al Qaeda or one of its allies connected to a plot against the United States or its allies.. [and] would otherwise extend to arrests on United States soil. The executive branch could issue a waiver and keep such a prisoner in the civilian system.”
The second provision (section 1032), however, does not include an exemption for U.S. citizens, and would give the government “the legal authority to keep people suspected of terrorism in military custody, indefinitely and without trial.”
That means in theory any American citizen decided to be a "terrorist suspect" on american soil.... of course the concern is what is termed as a terrorist suspect.....
It is wiki but its basically sound info and a nice place to start for joe public.
For ease and simplicity you can look at the bill and its progress over the last few years here ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act latest update is On May 15, 2012, a U.S. District Judge blocked section 1021, which its critics claim allows indefinite military detention.
A few highlights
The NDAA for Fiscal Year 2013 passed the House Armed Services Committee 56-5 on May 10. The bill as reported to the House authorizes $554.2 billion in base Pentagon spending and $88.5 billion for overseas contingency operations (OCO).The bill passed the full House on May 18 by a vote of 299-120.
So as to not have the Act run into the same legal trouble the 2012 version did, the US House included sections 1031 through 1033, which affirm the right of "Habeus Corpus" and the Constitutional right of due process for American citizens. Within those sections include references to a federal appeals court decision and a Supreme Court ruling that affirm the Constitutional rights of American citizens. However, there are already criticisms of the Act, especially with regard to a "readiness" and funding for an attack on Iran.
The National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for Fiscal Year 2012 was signed into United States law on December 31, 2011, by President Barack Obama. Now are you telling me a democrat dosn't dance to the same tune as all the rest ?
The US are going to war as soon as this election process is over, no matter who is in Democrat or Republican the US are going to war, they'll get what they want you know it, I know it and only a njub pretends otherwise, period.
And you can quote me on that
DeletedUser
The main reason this is only being discussed now is because I did not know about it until now!
The media here in the US sux to the point that they are covering the American Idol more than actual new about real theats to the rights of all US citizens!
http://goldwater1964.wordpress.com/2012/01/09/141/
The media here in the US sux to the point that they are covering the American Idol more than actual new about real theats to the rights of all US citizens!
http://goldwater1964.wordpress.com/2012/01/09/141/