improvements ideas

FunnyGirl

Active Member
Rules improvement and game changes

In my opinion there are places where the game can be improved. While some of them can be seen as minor or ideas, some others I think are major and mandatory.

1. First of all you have rules that forbid players to use automation and scripts. This is wrong implemented. You don't need to ban players based on your own will and feelings, you need to introduce specific detection system directly in the game and lock the affected user for specific period of time. This is the right way to do it, not ban and infinite system of appeal.
2. reduce drastically the difference between short/long duration of the same job.
example now (XP-value):
15 sec = 27
10 min = 127
1h = 259
more realisthic (XP-value):
15 sec = 20
10 min = 700
1h = 3600
3. Introduce a system to reduce number of used 15 sec jobs. What happens now is "brain damaging". I am sure that if you control now the head of a players that plays non-stop (with minimum sleep time) for 10 days this game using 15 sec advantage, you will find sensitive damage..

improvements:
- disable "work clothes" button for event servers.
- introduce bot system for adventures (like dueling with bandits system)
- disallow sharing of "silver/gold" jobs within town/alliance forums. or remove their benefits in terms of XP.
- discourage wearing no items for self-KO. I believe older system to KO against bandits was better, for players that don't really like dueling;
- implement color coding in quest book / completed quests. Mark with green the quests that are complete and yellow, for example, those that are ongoing. I always found it difficult to check what I had to do next for specific quest or if I had quests started but not finished yet
- increase rewards for dueling bandits. give a percentage chance to get items during the duel, like it is implemented for normal jobs (maybe items wore by the bandit)
- increase minimum value of items when sold on market. introduce a higher tax per transaction (for example 20k per transaction or 1k per item) to sold crafted items (this will reduce the number of boosted crafters by their friends or town-mates)
- remove rewards/requests for 1 hit KO duel. this will only force players to disobey any rules to obtain it
- increase drastically the value of items from sets and chests and increase the tax for selling them. Again, disallow boosting of new players. Disallow sending money to other players, I can;t see how this can be fair within the game.
 

Poker Alice

Well-Known Member
Wow, a lot of changes to the game inside this idea. Before I could possibly approve or disapprove I would need to know more about the changes? The last idea for example to disallow sending money to other players I have limited experience with. I wonder if other people do? There was one time I had a person take the time to answer my questions in the game and I appreciated that so when I was ready to leave the game for a spell sent my game money to her. I thought it was my money because I had earned it so saw it appropriate to do what I pleased with it. Not sure how sending money to someone is not fair though?

One other thing in this idea that stands out is "3. Introduce a system to reduce number of used 15 sec jobs. What happens now is "brain damaging". I am sure that if you control now the head of a players that plays non-stop (with minimum sleep time) for 10 days this game using 15 sec advantage, you will find sensitive damage.."

I'm just not sure exactly what that sentence means? Is it saying that you feel if people play this game using a lot of 15sec jobs they are brain damaged? If so do you have proof of that?

I agree with you that bots/scripts spoil the game for everyone including the people that use them but to each their own I suppose.
 

criminus

The West Team
Wiki editor
Forum moderator
Event Manager
In-Game Supporter
You can’t implement a detection system in a browser game. You can probably ban the extension to run the scripts and / or some browsers.

Criminus
 

FunnyGirl

Active Member
Wow, a lot of changes to the game inside this idea. Before I could possibly approve or disapprove I would need to know more about the changes? The last idea for example to disallow sending money to other players I have limited experience with. I wonder if other people do? There was one time I had a person take the time to answer my questions in the game and I appreciated that so when I was ready to leave the game for a spell sent my game money to her. I thought it was my money because I had earned it so saw it appropriate to do what I pleased with it. Not sure how sending money to someone is not fair though?

One other thing in this idea that stands out is "3. Introduce a system to reduce number of used 15 sec jobs. What happens now is "brain damaging". I am sure that if you control now the head of a players that plays non-stop (with minimum sleep time) for 10 days this game using 15 sec advantage, you will find sensitive damage.."

I'm just not sure exactly what that sentence means? Is it saying that you feel if people play this game using a lot of 15sec jobs they are brain damaged? If so do you have proof of that?

I agree with you that bots/scripts spoil the game for everyone including the people that use them but to each their own I suppose.
Do you think doing the same action at infinity is causing your brain to develop? Of course I have no proof for it, how could I? But I am definitely sure it is not safe for health. The same result is if you don't sleep enough time. How could that be healthy?

2. If you throw your money to another player because you don't play anymore, is not something wrong for you, because you will leave anyway. But it is wrong for the other players, because the player you send the money to will get extra benefits now.

If you want a better example, think that there are 3 mates in the same room, each playing the game. And then a 4th one, alone. At some point, 2 of the first 3 decide to leave and therefore give everything they have to the 3rd one. The one alone is still there alone. Now the gap between the 3rd player and the 4th is suddenly 3rd time bigger (in terms of money) - taking the ideal case that they are equally profitable. How would that be fair?
 

FunnyGirl

Active Member
You can’t implement a detection system in a browser game. You can probably ban the extension to run the scripts and / or some browsers.

Criminus
How is that? If you "know" that a player uses scripts - this being a server - client game, how would it be impossible to apply restrictions? I am not familiar with technical details, I am sure though that some improvements can be made. Right now if you do some action (buy an item) very fast, several times, you are put on hold for few minutes. How is that possible? Is it not something similar to implement when using scripts? I believe the amount of data exchanged between client and server is much bigger in case of a script.
My point is that ban system is subjective, restrictions implemented in the game are the same for everyone.
 

criminus

The West Team
Wiki editor
Forum moderator
Event Manager
In-Game Supporter
How is that? If you "know" that a player uses scripts - this being a server - client game, how would it be impossible to apply restrictions? I am not familiar with technical details, I am sure though that some improvements can be made. Right now if you do some action (buy an item) very fast, several times, you are put on hold for few minutes. How is that possible? Is it not something similar to implement when using scripts? I believe the amount of data exchanged between client and server is much bigger in case of a script.
My point is that ban system is subjective, restrictions implemented in the game are the same for everyone.
Because the anti flood measure has a very basic and logic check. If you have more than x numbers of queries (actions) done in less than y seconds for example it will trigger that popup.
As for the protections, any protection can be broken. Even a hwid ban can be bypassed.
And sadly, you can’t make such protections for websites in general.

I’m sure you saw one of them popups on certain websites telling you to stop AdBlock etc. that would be a way to stop scripts usage. To ban the extension itself and browsers with built in features that allow it’s users to inject javascript.

Criminus
 

Poker Alice

Well-Known Member
Do you think doing the same action at infinity is causing your brain to develop? Of course I have no proof for it, how could I? But I am definitely sure it is not safe for health. The same result is if you don't sleep enough time. How could that be healthy?
Thank you for explaining. I see now what you meant. Of course if someone is doing something which is unhealthy then they can correct it. Like stop doing it. No one is forcing them to do it.

I won't go as far to say that the game is causing a health problem. That would be like saying the game can cause people to become violent. They stab players with knifes in a duel so then want to go and act it out in real life. I think that could be considered Karen logic? If someone is prone to do something which is unhealthy they will find something else to do which is unhealthy for them. The blame shouldn't fall on the game.

As far as being fair goes one could also say that forming towns and alliances is unfair as they can give each other advantages. I would say that sharing money is acceptable as long as the money was made with compliance to the rules of the game.
 

Thanatoss

Well-Known Member
If you ban scripts half the players will be banned and the other half will stop playing...

Do you expect adults with jobs and responsibilities to sit and click all day?
 

FunnyGirl

Active Member
If you ban scripts half the players will be banned and the other half will stop playing...

Do you expect adults with jobs and responsibilities to sit and click all day?
I like your comment. It is perfect.
So basically we have rules and each individual is free to use whatever he wants to round them. If he gets caught it is unlucky, if not - he is a fair-play mate.
Nice!
If you are unable to detect and punish all kind of "unfair" playing then why do we still have rules?
For example, how do you intend to catch these:
- 2 people staying on the same account non-stop, in shifts;
- person using automatic tool/script for repeating 15 sec jobs infinitely; if you can't then your suggestion is that I should do the same to compete against him? Or am I supposed to beat the computer in order to be the 1st?
- people using VPN for multiple accounts "simulating" different physical locations
- and so on, I am sure the cases can continue..

I play this game since the beginning, I never felt so disappointed as I feel today.
Your message is "take it or leave it", you can't provide the same conditions for all players. And you have no intention to do so.
But you give rewards to top players? Or to their scripts/tool?

So why don't you simply allow use of tool and scripts, if you are unable to detect all people breaking the rules?? And then, yes, we fight who is having the best automated tool to win.

HaHaHa.
 

FunnyGirl

Active Member
If you ban scripts half the players will be banned and the other half will stop playing...

Do you expect adults with jobs and responsibilities to sit and click all day?
By the way, this is in the rules, you are not allowed to use them..
 

NovaStar

Well-Known Member
How is sharing gold/silver jobs you found with your town and/or alliance harmful? That's what alliances do...they share info and help each other, right?
 

Poker Alice

Well-Known Member
But you give rewards to top players? Or to their scripts/tool?
That is so true. It is great that you are thinking of ways that might improve the game. I wonder if it would work to hire a team member just to be online to instant message players just to check and see if someone is not a bot and actually playing the game. Not sure how that would work though. Another possibility might to be to reward rankings which are not just for the top players. Something like achievements I guess. Again not sure how that might work. Sorry, not sure if that is very helpful.
 

Symbiote

Well-Known Member
what if we made it prohibited to use auto-click and multi? i think that could work well. just shout: "cheater no cheating! cheater no cheating!! cheater no cheating!!!" then they will go "fug dis lame game imma go live real life see u later loozers". better yet, what if we paid people to like, do surveillance of sorts and with undeniable proof harshly penalize players who misconduct? you know, it's hard to spot those mischiefs, sometimes they are right by your side on the same spot farming and you don't even notice, you go "hello, fellow westerner, great day to farm eh?" and they plain ignore, keep working hours non-stop. what a dedicated fella there, don't ya think? and efficient too, never missing on marginal gains in terms of energy and motivation management, very precise gaming style. also markets are a mystery, you sell one item and you can never possibly track the movement of goods and cash, is such a dark spot that bad criminals from the bad web use our market system as a laundry since it is safer than crap like Monero. trust me, if inno could do something about this unmaking of the rules, they would. there is nothing we can do.
 

Symbiote

Well-Known Member
now to the rest of the post, i agree with it almost completely. for the 2nd point, i am still to think what is the usage for 10 minutes jobs to this day. who in their sane mind play 10 minutes jobs if you could get the same gains with 75s of jobs instead of 600s of waiting? and this is a hook for the 3rd point that is, people really get hooked on the heavy gain on 15s spam than 10min and 1h. the only reason people do 1h is for products, for xp they go build church.


replying fully to 2, let me take example for the 15s xp farm i am doing now on silver Settlement and regular Preacher, i am on full patrick.

Build a Settlement: 15s - 80x // 10min - 376xp // 1h - 798
Work as a Preacher: 15s - 54xp // 10min - 253 // 1h - 536


my town church at lv178 gives 15min - 238~746 // 1h 964~2995 and it has been fixed that the one and only stuff to do when offline for xp is build at your town church, which is bad if yours is too low or to high for you to work on it. so i thought about adding a "church" feature in forts, tower repairs, which allows different levels to work in different tower levels, thus making it a greater deal to seek conquer or defend a high level fortress. people would want to fight over there not because of the barracks but because of the high "towers" level (please mix this with my idea of granting buffs with dominates counties). ofc they don't grant greater stats upon being higher than level 5, but they do give as much xp or even more xp per level as a collective church for all of the members of that alliance to work on it, despite its own church level. this would inspire people to focus in one main fort of theirs and that becoming their alliance jewel and a target for enemies. i think it is good that the 1h work for xp to be church building, if you increase the rate on regular jobs that would make small churchs stale unless you also increase church xp, which would just be inflating numbers because they look nicer when they have a high nominal value.


replying fully to 3, 15spam is totally sure to fry one's mind if they indulge in the incentivized 15s streak frenzy since it has no comparison on the hourly gain with the 10min and 1h.

i talked previously on how they should increase tasks on bar to 12 and raise job lenght to 30s, let the energy the same and increase the rewards by 50%. having 12x30s tasks makes for 6 minutes, so you just do a quick management every 5 minutes. with 9x15s jobs that is a 2min15s frame that requires you to be doing it every 2 minutes or you will lose against the guy doing the farm precisely timed over a 10 hours period. but again you never know so no finger pointing, inno is on the case.

the 1h jobs would be the product farming hustle and i also mentioned how stupid big drop rate sets inflated the offer for crafts, and that would require a reduct on drop rates if not a full revamp on them along with the crafts system for every profession.
i have no idea what the 10 minutes jobs should be like, rn they are only about 9 times longer in time than the 15s jobs for the same results [and luck
don't stack either]. they could... they could..... i dunno man, maybe 15 minutes jobs with 4-5 times less rewards than the same lenght done in 30s jobs?


on improvements:
-this is just to make a bit more harder to cheaters. what about tracking and permaban?
-never played adventures so no opinion on that
-man i think the silver/gold jobs are the hype of the day, please don't destroy that happiness and let every job to be the very same all the times. how could you prevent the share of that information? remove the market? what if i just say what town is near to?
-i propose an "on and off" pvp system that defeat you to 1% of hp if you are on the offline pvp or you can get knocked out in online pvp with death that actually makes you unable to do anything for like 24 hours because you literally died and it's not like you can drink a tonic and then back to work. you should have high benefits for being on online pvp since you are taking the risk and you should be free of being harassed if you are on offline pvp. a 'defeated' offline pvp gets like 24h of protection as a "online pvp" gets 96h of protection. online pvps get a "defeat / death" streak prize, the more your toll the more your buffs on online pvp. if some other duelist knocks you, he get your reward streak as a (nerfed) token that lasts until he is defeated, but your token doesn't pass to his killer.
-i don't think the color of the quests is the only thing that is wrong with them. not getting into all that.
-npc duel is very trash, you earn little and lose big when a duel is lost. people do these for something other than achievements?
-i am fairly sure the minimum value for items on market has actually been nerfed to sale value instead of face value. the shop items are random, but i have no idea why event sets items value are the way they are. 12k for a belt and 2,4k for a horse? wth. also the 5% transaction tax is high enough already so people just trade products for tax evasion (i approve). what is the problem with townies helping a townie to become a master on his profession?
-what rewards or requests for one punch duels? i mean it, i have no idea what people tank about when they "duel for quests" yeah i'm in a quest of lust for blood too
-
>disallow boosting of new players
you gotta be kidding me.
how else are new players supposed to compete against rich high level mammoths from this decade old world? because making it harder for them to climb the ladder is good for the stablished players and not for the newcomers. what a great way to maintain the gap and demotivate noobs to even try and beat the giants upfront. this and the previous said about not having boosted town crafters says "please don't cooperate this is bad for the game". what the-
 

Poker Alice

Well-Known Member
replying fully to 3, 15spam is totally sure to fry one's mind if they indulge in the incentivized 15s streak frenzy since it has no comparison on the hourly gain with the 10min and 1h.
Mind fry will depend on the person and/or how a person might be motivated? I like mixing job time up not based just on what power I get out of it but how it suits my personal computer time. A bunch of 15 second jobs are cool when I'm only doing my thing online, the 10 minute jobs when I'm off and on and the 1 hour jobs when I think I'll be offline for a time.

Do you expect adults with jobs and responsibilities to sit and click all day?
I'm retired so don't have a job with responsibilities. So I can sit a click to my hearts content just as long as I'm enjoying my activity.

How a person is driven might lead them to doing something which is unhealthy like for instance being obsessed with winning. If the only motivation is to win then yes the game is either a Pay-to-Win or Play-to-Win exercise.

Myself, I'm also content when receiving milk or how about a Jaguar Warrior's Outfit? Not because it has higher mathematical abilities in the kill Bill department but because it just looks so hot! As a matter of fact I would be happy with different colored lipsticks/nail polish for my avatar. But that's just me with a lame idea? I'm pretty sure many other members will think character looks is too much like a dress up game and not suitable in how they see a rootin' tootin' shootin west game. Well we all need valued goals right.
 
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