#### Zeta-Navy

Pre-scriptum: sorry for the long read, but i tried to be as clear as possible

Folks,

I made this thread since in the ideas and brainfarts, and many discussions in the saloon about the new Fortfighting(FF) system there just shows a clear sign of a lack of knowledge of the more intimate workings of fortfighting, most know globally how it work, but to really know what suggestions and changes would do to the fortfighting, and how it comes that the current imbalance between defences and attacks came into place with the current new formula's its important to understand the inner workings.(also since the wiki on it is quite outdated)

ok where to start, uhm lets start with the explanation of FF attack and FF defence.

contrary to what it sounds like its not 1 skill is used for when your the attacker and the other for when your defending.

FF attack is the stat used for if you land a hit or not, FF defence is a skill used to calculate if you dodge a hit or not. And both are used as attacking side or as defending side of an Fortfight (sorry can't make it much clearer then this)

those 2 stats together with distance penalty (will come back later to that) are used in the next formulas to decide if you hit or not:

thus with for instance the formula gets you to hit 48% you still can miss 10 shots on a row or hit 10 times on row, but on average you hit about 1 outta 2 shots.

I will come back to this formula later, to explain ti further, also remember the chance to hit might differ every round, since you might be shooting at someone else with a difference FF defence etc.

At the last paragraph i explained about FF Attack and FF Defence. This is how they are calculated:

As you can see for both stats always 3 skills are important. however which skill is important for what?

- Stamina is a skill solely used if you are in the attacking side(red) of a fortfight and affects your FF attack and FF defence then.

- Hiding is solely used if you are on the defending(blue) side of a fortfight and increases your FF attack and FF defence.

- Aim is only used for the calculation of FF attack (for both if your defending or attacking a fort)

- Dodge is only used for the calculation of FF defence(for both if your defending or attacking a fort)

- Leadership increases your FF attack and FF defence (for both if your defending or attacking a fort), also leadership determines order of movement, shooting and damage multipliers(more on those later)

this sums up to:

as attacking(red) side you use the following skills:

FF attack =stamina+aim+leadership

FF Defence = stamina+dodge+leadership

as Defending side you use the following skills:

FF Attack = Hiding + aim + Leadership

FF Defence = Hiding + dodge + leadership

To use 2 examples now

Example 1:

You are on the Attacking (red) side

you got 92 stamina 100 leadership 56 aim and 56 dodge, and you got no fancy special clothing.

Your FF attack= 100^0.5 + 56^0.4 + 92^0.6 +25(default bonus!) = 55 FF attack

your FF Defence= 100^0.5+56^0.4 + 92^0.6+10(default bonus!)= 40 FF Defence.

Example 2:

This one will be more complicated, since you are on the defending (blue) side since you are on your class tower which is build to level 4. Also you are in possesion of the Golden Gun set as special pieces of clothing.

a level 4 towers gives: +27 FF attack + 20 FF defence and if its your own class tower it gives another +20 FF attack and 20 FF defence.

your Golden Gun set gives also +3 FF attack and +3 FF defence, and since your on a tower also +2 FF attack sector bonus and + 2 FF defence Sector bonus.

Your skills are 144 leadership 148 hiding 88 aim and 16 dodge

Your FF Attack will be: 144^0.5 + 88^0.4 + 148^0.6 + 5 FF attack(from the Golden Gun)+ 47 FF attack(from the Tower bonus) + 25(default bonus = 110 FF attack

Your FF Defence will be: 144^0.5 + 16^0.4 + 148^0.6 + 5 FF attack(from the Golden Gun)+ 40 FF attack(from the Tower bonus) + 10 (default bonus)=85 FF Defence

A skill not mentioned in the formula, but by most considered the most important and determining skill of all Health points aka hp. The more health you have the longer you can stay alive, the better you can protect others, and eventually you will also have more dodges.

I will use the numbers of the example later to explain and elaborate some other stuff.

This is stuff i canmainly copy paste from other threads.

The closer your character is to the person they shoot at, the better the chances are to land a hit. Distance is calculated by fields, sectors don't matter. The distance has no effect on the damage amount.

numbers:

http://wiki.the-west.net/wiki/Fort_battles#Distance_2

to give a small example between the person you are shooting at is 5 squares, for the calculation of the chance if you hit or not a malus of -7 FF attack is applied. is the distance 10 squares the malus is -16 FF attack etc.

from the wiki:

Resistance is basically a number that tells you how much damage you resist of someone

for instance you got 20 resistance, a person shoots at you and normally does 400 damage, but only hits you for 380 damage, due to that resistance. resistance is calculated like this:

Resistance = 300 * (Stamina OR Hiding) / MaxHP

as you well know by now stamina is used if your on the attacking side of a fight(reds) and hiding if your on the defensive(blue) side

Damage formula is a multiplier to your weapon damage, increasing slightly your damage bit or with high leadership and low health your damage quite a bit. The formula is:

weaponDamage + (weaponDamage * leadership / maxHealth)

seems quite clear, usually most folks will have 2-7% damage multiplier ofcourse simply because hp is so important that even with 3-4k hp and 300 leadership you won't get a very high damage increasing multiplier.

In general the extra damage you do normally negates the normal resistance someone has, only if someone has a special resistance clothing set or build, or build focussed on extra damage it really will be noticable.

after all the info back to the first formula:

Subject 1 is the attacker on the ground, and for this example there is a distance of 7 between subject 1 and 2, which means the malus is -10 for both subject 1 and 2

Subject 1 had 55 FF attack 40 FF defence

Subject 2 had 110 FF attack and 85 FF defence

The chance for subject 1 to hit subject 2 is( we use the second formula(A/2D) since A < D):

A(of subject 1)=55-10= 45

D(of subject 2)=85

chance to hit= 45/ (2*85)=26.5% meaning subject 2 has a 73.5% chance to dodge

The chance for subject 2 to hit subject 1 is (we use the first formula((A-D/2)/A) since A>D):

A(of subject 2)=110-10=100

D(of subject 1)=40

chance to hit= (100-40/2)/100)= 80% means subject 2 will have a 80% chance to hit and subject 1 has a 20% chance to dodge.

I hope this made clear how hitting and dodging actually work, and what the precise effects are of FF attack and Defence, i hope this makes you more understanble of what skills to choose, and how much an increase of 5 attack and defence might actually matter for your skills.

I will post 1 addititional post in reply here, on how the new FF system changed the balance exactly since i see many different explanations most in the good direction, but i will try to show it with simple numbers with the above mentioned formula's

if you want me to post pics in here, or see any flaws just let me know (in case of pics supply em)and i edit it

Folks,

I made this thread since in the ideas and brainfarts, and many discussions in the saloon about the new Fortfighting(FF) system there just shows a clear sign of a lack of knowledge of the more intimate workings of fortfighting, most know globally how it work, but to really know what suggestions and changes would do to the fortfighting, and how it comes that the current imbalance between defences and attacks came into place with the current new formula's its important to understand the inner workings.(also since the wiki on it is quite outdated)

**how does hitting and dodging work**ok where to start, uhm lets start with the explanation of FF attack and FF defence.

contrary to what it sounds like its not 1 skill is used for when your the attacker and the other for when your defending.

FF attack is the stat used for if you land a hit or not, FF defence is a skill used to calculate if you dodge a hit or not. And both are used as attacking side or as defending side of an Fortfight (sorry can't make it much clearer then this)

those 2 stats together with distance penalty (will come back later to that) are used in the next formulas to decide if you hit or not:

the chance to hit is a percentage that works just like with jobs, to clarify for instance you doing transporting prisoners and got 48% for a shackle to drop, however you do 10 jobs and only find 1, or you do 10 job and then find 9. just like with jobs you need a bit of luck, however the higher the percentage the more chance you do actually land a hitA = FF Attack (the number next to the crossed axes at fort battle character stats) - malus for distance

D = FF Defence(the number next to the shield)

If A>D then the chance to hit is (A-D/2)/A.

Otherwise the chance to hit is A/2D.

thus with for instance the formula gets you to hit 48% you still can miss 10 shots on a row or hit 10 times on row, but on average you hit about 1 outta 2 shots.

I will come back to this formula later, to explain ti further, also remember the chance to hit might differ every round, since you might be shooting at someone else with a difference FF defence etc.

**How do skills influence Fortfight Attack and Defence**At the last paragraph i explained about FF Attack and FF Defence. This is how they are calculated:

If you just see that it looks like a bit of mumbo jumbo, also since the wiki and the game, use different terminology sometimes for the same thing it only gets more confusing.Leadership^0.5 + Skill2^0.4 + Skill 3^0.6 + Sector Attack Bonus or Sector Defense Bonus + Special Bonuses + Default Bonus

Where:

Skill 2 is Aim or Dodge

Skill 3 is Stamina or Hiding

Sector Attack Bonus is the FF Attack bonuses provided by the structures (if any)

Sector Defense Bonus is the FF Defence bonuses provided by the structures (if any)

Special Bonuses are additional bonuses provided by structures (ie Tower Class Bonus)

Default Bonus is 25 FF attack and 10 FF Defence

As you can see for both stats always 3 skills are important. however which skill is important for what?

- Stamina is a skill solely used if you are in the attacking side(red) of a fortfight and affects your FF attack and FF defence then.

- Hiding is solely used if you are on the defending(blue) side of a fortfight and increases your FF attack and FF defence.

- Aim is only used for the calculation of FF attack (for both if your defending or attacking a fort)

- Dodge is only used for the calculation of FF defence(for both if your defending or attacking a fort)

- Leadership increases your FF attack and FF defence (for both if your defending or attacking a fort), also leadership determines order of movement, shooting and damage multipliers(more on those later)

this sums up to:

as attacking(red) side you use the following skills:

FF attack =stamina+aim+leadership

FF Defence = stamina+dodge+leadership

as Defending side you use the following skills:

FF Attack = Hiding + aim + Leadership

FF Defence = Hiding + dodge + leadership

To use 2 examples now

Example 1:

You are on the Attacking (red) side

you got 92 stamina 100 leadership 56 aim and 56 dodge, and you got no fancy special clothing.

Your FF attack= 100^0.5 + 56^0.4 + 92^0.6 +25(default bonus!) = 55 FF attack

your FF Defence= 100^0.5+56^0.4 + 92^0.6+10(default bonus!)= 40 FF Defence.

Example 2:

This one will be more complicated, since you are on the defending (blue) side since you are on your class tower which is build to level 4. Also you are in possesion of the Golden Gun set as special pieces of clothing.

a level 4 towers gives: +27 FF attack + 20 FF defence and if its your own class tower it gives another +20 FF attack and 20 FF defence.

your Golden Gun set gives also +3 FF attack and +3 FF defence, and since your on a tower also +2 FF attack sector bonus and + 2 FF defence Sector bonus.

Your skills are 144 leadership 148 hiding 88 aim and 16 dodge

Your FF Attack will be: 144^0.5 + 88^0.4 + 148^0.6 + 5 FF attack(from the Golden Gun)+ 47 FF attack(from the Tower bonus) + 25(default bonus = 110 FF attack

Your FF Defence will be: 144^0.5 + 16^0.4 + 148^0.6 + 5 FF attack(from the Golden Gun)+ 40 FF attack(from the Tower bonus) + 10 (default bonus)=85 FF Defence

A skill not mentioned in the formula, but by most considered the most important and determining skill of all Health points aka hp. The more health you have the longer you can stay alive, the better you can protect others, and eventually you will also have more dodges.

I will use the numbers of the example later to explain and elaborate some other stuff.

**Distance penalty, order of movement, resistance and damage multipliers**This is stuff i canmainly copy paste from other threads.

*Distance*The closer your character is to the person they shoot at, the better the chances are to land a hit. Distance is calculated by fields, sectors don't matter. The distance has no effect on the damage amount.

numbers:

http://wiki.the-west.net/wiki/Fort_battles#Distance_2

to give a small example between the person you are shooting at is 5 squares, for the calculation of the chance if you hit or not a malus of -7 FF attack is applied. is the distance 10 squares the malus is -16 FF attack etc.

*Order of movement and shooting*from the wiki:

Also keep in mind you always shoot first and then move, only exception on this is when you are swapping someone which moves before you should, you then first swap and then shoot(but if this confuses you its a minor detail which is not important)Both moving and shooting occur by the following rules:

1 All defenders move before attackers.

2 Higher ranks* move before lower ranks.

3 Alliance members move before freelancers.

Rank order: Generals, Captains, Privates, Recruits, Reservists, Traitors

When two players have equal priority the player with the highest leadership moves first. Should the tie be unbroken then the player with the highest stamina, followed by dodging and finally player ID moves first.

*Resistance*Resistance is basically a number that tells you how much damage you resist of someone

for instance you got 20 resistance, a person shoots at you and normally does 400 damage, but only hits you for 380 damage, due to that resistance. resistance is calculated like this:

Resistance = 300 * (Stamina OR Hiding) / MaxHP

as you well know by now stamina is used if your on the attacking side of a fight(reds) and hiding if your on the defensive(blue) side

*Damage Formula*Damage formula is a multiplier to your weapon damage, increasing slightly your damage bit or with high leadership and low health your damage quite a bit. The formula is:

weaponDamage + (weaponDamage * leadership / maxHealth)

seems quite clear, usually most folks will have 2-7% damage multiplier ofcourse simply because hp is so important that even with 3-4k hp and 300 leadership you won't get a very high damage increasing multiplier.

In general the extra damage you do normally negates the normal resistance someone has, only if someone has a special resistance clothing set or build, or build focussed on extra damage it really will be noticable.

**Hitting and Dodging again**after all the info back to the first formula:

we gonna use the numbers of the 2 examples given earlierA = FF Attack (the number next to the crossed axes at fort battle character stats) - malus for distance

D = FF Defence(the number next to the shield)

If A>D then the chance to hit is (A-D/2)/A.

Otherwise the chance to hit is A/2D.

Subject 1 is the attacker on the ground, and for this example there is a distance of 7 between subject 1 and 2, which means the malus is -10 for both subject 1 and 2

Subject 1 had 55 FF attack 40 FF defence

Subject 2 had 110 FF attack and 85 FF defence

The chance for subject 1 to hit subject 2 is( we use the second formula(A/2D) since A < D):

A(of subject 1)=55-10= 45

D(of subject 2)=85

chance to hit= 45/ (2*85)=26.5% meaning subject 2 has a 73.5% chance to dodge

The chance for subject 2 to hit subject 1 is (we use the first formula((A-D/2)/A) since A>D):

A(of subject 2)=110-10=100

D(of subject 1)=40

chance to hit= (100-40/2)/100)= 80% means subject 2 will have a 80% chance to hit and subject 1 has a 20% chance to dodge.

I hope this made clear how hitting and dodging actually work, and what the precise effects are of FF attack and Defence, i hope this makes you more understanble of what skills to choose, and how much an increase of 5 attack and defence might actually matter for your skills.

I will post 1 addititional post in reply here, on how the new FF system changed the balance exactly since i see many different explanations most in the good direction, but i will try to show it with simple numbers with the above mentioned formula's

if you want me to post pics in here, or see any flaws just let me know (in case of pics supply em)and i edit it

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