Gun Control

[DeletedUser]

Hehe, you read the information incorrectly. 22 States pose no restrictions at all for purchasing, 25 States (fully half of the U.S.) pose no minimum age restriction for purchasing of long guns.

And then we go into possession, where 40 States pose no age restrictions for handguns and 30 States pose no age restriction for long guns (with Montana imposing a minimum age of 14, so I think we can call that 31 States, hehe).


So, you obtain the information regarding being blind yet?

 

[DeletedUser]

You mean 40 states imposing 18-21 restrictions to handguns?! You're looking at it upside down. And in case you did not notice, what you were looking at with your Montana example is possession

So, you gonna answer me how you gonna weed out the stupids without a general ban yet?

I never said "there's no need for any gun control", which is why I do not understand why you are trying so hard to nitpick with me about the laws and all this crap. Why the need to push me into a corner where I'd have to "protect" the gun laws, when it was never my intention to do so, but I have to when someone posts unbelievable extremes. I don't agree with your extreme assumptions, but I agree there's a need for a change. I don't agree a child can easily purchase a gun legally, they can a lot easier purchase it illegally, which is the worrysome part. As for change, the hard part is to fairly define that "change" without interfering with people's rights and without increasing illegal trade. What I don't want to discuss is extremes, what I do want to discuss is opinions in the matter and problem solving. I said it before in this thread and I repeat: this is meant as a discussion, not as a debate. After all this is Debates and DISCUSSIONS. If you cannot help being belligerent and extreme, I will ignore you like I did with your buddy a few pages back. Be constructive and less destructive. Specially when I agree with your second (I think) post you made in this thread

 

[DeletedUser]

Your numbers are wrong again, my numbers are indeed correct. And yes, your comment about Montana is exactly what I wrote. Read again.

My presentation of an extreme is because it is indeed legal for a blind 12 year old girl to purchase a shotgun, rifle, or modified assault rifle (type I long gun) in 25 States. As I stated, it goes against common sense and it goes against many peoples' better judgement, but the laws are clear on this and there are absolutely no legal repercussions for selling to a 12 year old blind girl, nor are there any legal repercussions for a 12 year old blind girl purchasing such weapons.

That is posed as a glaring example of just how messed up the laws are, as it pertains to keeping guns out of the hands of people who obviously should not be able to purchase, let alone possess a gun.


As to the "stupids," I already addressed this multiple times. A written/oral test and a supervised performance test are two methods to weed out many of the stupids. For the extreme stupids, we have clinical diagnosis and reporting of incapacity. This is already done, to some extent, for drivers licenses and likewise to a lesser extent for ccws.


Now, anyone in the reading audience have a license to drive in the autobahn? Please describe to the readers the procedures necessary to obtain that license. Thanks in advance.

 

[DeletedUser]

Supervised performance tests are already done for ccw's.
As for your "blind" repetition, I think a blind person is better with a gun than any of us in the dark. And don't tell me that one needs to use a gun for protection mostly during the day

For autobahn, one can drive with a licence issued in any of the EU states or an international drivers licence iirc. My home country is a EU state and I know what is required to get one there and I already said is harder to get one there than in the US! Proves MY POINT!

PS:

ORDER YOUR INTERNATIONAL DRIVERS LICENSE OR PERMIT TODAY WITH OUR EASY 3-STEP PROCESS

Complete and submit* the online application to get the process started
Securely complete online payment through PayPal using any major credit card or provide your credit card information for us to process.
Send us ONE (1) passport "style" photo in a jpeg format image file and email it to us to be displayed on your license/permit.

http://www.idl-international.com/ ... man that sounds sooooooooooo hard

 

[DeletedUser]

Supervised performance tests are already done for ccw's.

And yet again I point out that a ccw is ONLY about carrying a concealed weapon, an add-on permit that is not required for purchase, possession, nor use of a gun. The issue is still that people can purchase, possess and use guns with no tests whatsoever.

As for your "blind" repetition, I think a blind person is better with a gun than any of us in the dark. And don't tell me that one needs to use a gun for protection mostly during the day

No, they rely on the "same" senses everyone else does, sans sight. Their other senses are not enhanced for being blind, this is a common misnomer. Also, being blind is not the same as shooting at night. It is the same as shooting in pitch black, which nobody should do.

For autobahn, one can drive with a licence issued in any of the EU states or an international drivers licence iirc. My home country is a EU state and I know what is required to get one there and I already said is harder to get one there than in the US! Proves MY POINT!

Actually, no it doesn't. The issue is about requirements to obtain/own/use a gun. I initially posed the prerequisites in the U.S. to drive a vehicle, to point out there are no such prerequisites for gun ownership. My query about the international drivers license (IDL) was to compare the requirements/tests associated with the IDL as opposed to the requirements/tests associated with obtaining a drivers license in the States, and then of course showing just how --- way off -- the U.S. is working to protect its citizenry from "stupid."

Thank you for the link, but I am asking for the requirements imposed to obtain an IDL, not for a company that you pay to assist you in applying for an IDL (which doesn't address the process of actually taking the tests, my initial question).

 

[DeletedUser]

My query about the international drivers license (IDL) was to compare the requirements/tests associated with the IDL as opposed to the requirements/tests associated with obtaining a drivers license in the States, and then of course showing just how --- way off -- the U.S. is working to protect its citizenry from "stupid."

I've said that a few times now ...

 

[DeletedUser16008]

*sigh* less than 2 months after the last post and here we are seeing the ongoing results of no real gun control.

Well first id like to say my heart goes out to the parents especially in Connecticut that have had their lives and all future Xmas destroyed by this sick excuse for a human being.

20 kids 6 adults dead and gone....

The weapons used in Friday’s shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn, were legally purchased and registered to Nancy Lanza, the mother of the gunman, Adam Lanza.

The gunman was clad in black and used two 9mm pistols to kill 20 small children and six adults at the school. It was unclear how many shots were fired there as yet.
Two 9mm handguns, one made by Glock and the other by Sig Sauer, were recovered inside the school. An AR-15-type rifle also was found at the scene, but there were conflicting reports Friday night whether it had been used in the shooting. Hollow point rounds are also suspected due to the nature and size of injuries seen on some victims but as yet unconfirmed.

Under Connecticut law, people under 21 are prohibited from purchasing or carrying handguns. Adam Lanza was 20.

Gun control laws in Connecticut and neighbouring states New Jersey, New York and Massachusetts as the most stringent in the nation, after California.

Kids under 10 ????? really ?????? so that probably means you are in the future looking forward to hospital ward rampages a maternity ward maybe ? Old peoples home mass murder and probably church baptism or wedding massacres at some point.

Not time to have a rethink about gun laws really ? .....I think its about time people realised until there is the toll will keep on rising..... Face it this is way out of control and will continue to repeat until people accept that the general public in the main are about as dangerous as an untrained monkey around firearms.

All above weaponry are Semis or Fully Automatic I believe and you dont NEED any of them for protection or hunting... unless your after children of course as they are a real menace.... I believe the shooting lasted only minutes and its pretty obvious the deathtoll is purely down to the rate of fire put down in that time, highly unlikely it would have been as lethal as that with non automatics or without hollow rounds before being stopped.


Sorry but unless your service trained and active you should not be allowed access. All you need for protection if you must have it is a non automatic pistol or a shotgun or rifle if your hunting.... all the rest are a 100% just a total ego, macho, testosterone trip and nightmare waiting to happen.

 

[DeletedUser]

Hmm, methinks....

 

[DeletedUser16008]

On a gun control discussion thread ? probably.

 

[DeletedUser28032]

hmm assault rifles....and I found it scary when i learnt someone in Nottingham had been making MAC-10's.
No weapons like that shouldn't be in the hands of the general public those would be the first on my list for being banned and recalled

 

[DeletedUser]

It's all responsibility....why not ban cars, plenty of hazardous crimes are committed with them...one idiot has to ruin it for everybody.

 

[DeletedUser28032]

It's all responsibility....why not ban cars

Because you can't masacre a school through dangerous driving. Other people have already pointed out that there are multiple methods of causing wide spread carnage (Bombs, chemical weapons, knives) however handguns are readily availble and require next to no training or specialist knowledge to use.
An outright firearms ban would be next to impossible to enforce but you put an outright ban on assault rifles and SMG's then at least you would have some form of damage limitation.

 

[DeletedUser34315]

Mate. There already IS a ban on assault rifles and machine guns. Very few can get one, and it takes a massive amount of paperwork to get them.

 

[DeletedUser34315]

*sigh* less than 2 months after the last post and here we are seeing the ongoing results of no real gun control.

Well first id like to say my heart goes out to the parents especially in Connecticut that have had their lives and all future Xmas destroyed by this sick excuse for a human being.

20 kids 6 adults dead and gone....

The weapons used in Friday’s shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn, were legally purchased and registered to Nancy Lanza, the mother of the gunman, Adam Lanza.

The gunman was clad in black and used two 9mm pistols to kill 20 small children and six adults at the school. It was unclear how many shots were fired there as yet.
Two 9mm handguns, one made by Glock and the other by Sig Sauer, were recovered inside the school. An AR-15-type rifle also was found at the scene, but there were conflicting reports Friday night whether it had been used in the shooting. Hollow point rounds are also suspected due to the nature and size of injuries seen on some victims but as yet unconfirmed.

Under Connecticut law, people under 21 are prohibited from purchasing or carrying handguns. Adam Lanza was 20.

Gun control laws in Connecticut and neighbouring states New Jersey, New York and Massachusetts as the most stringent in the nation, after California.

Kids under 10 ????? really ?????? so that probably means you are in the future looking forward to hospital ward rampages a maternity ward maybe ? Old peoples home mass murder and probably church baptism or wedding massacres at some point.

Not time to have a rethink about gun laws really ? .....I think its about time people realised until there is the toll will keep on rising..... Face it this is way out of control and will continue to repeat until people accept that the general public in the main are about as dangerous as an untrained monkey around firearms.

All above weaponry are Semis or Fully Automatic I believe and you dont NEED any of them for protection or hunting... unless your after children of course as they are a real menace.... I believe the shooting lasted only minutes and its pretty obvious the deathtoll is purely down to the rate of fire put down in that time, highly unlikely it would have been as lethal as that with non automatics or without hollow rounds before being stopped.


Sorry but unless your service trained and active you should not be allowed access. All you need for protection if you must have it is a non automatic pistol or a shotgun or rifle if your hunting.... all the rest are a 100% just a total ego, macho, testosterone trip and nightmare waiting to happen.

Whoa there victor... as a shooter, let me explain how a gun works here...



No one can fire a sig sauer or a glock at 5 rounds a second.
A- your fingers do not move that fast.
B- the gun would be pointed at the roof after the second shot.
C- the 223 bushmaster is not a military rifle. It does not penetrate body armor, it is not a fully automatic firearm, and it does not have the stopping power of a good rifle.

You don't think anyone should be allowed semi auto guns?
Have you shot a gun?
Almost every handgun is semi auto- that's how guns WORK. Even revolvers are semi auto- 1 trigger pull, 1 shot.
You don't need those guns listed above for protection or hunting?
How in the hell do you expect to be able to do a damn thing against a home invader with a single shot weapon?
You want to have only 1 chance to hit them, and then be left fumbling trying to reload your gun for another single shot at the attacker?
NONE of the weapons you show in that picture are fully automatic- it takes reams of paperwork and massive amounts of time to acquire fully automatic weapons.

I say it again- a gun ban would just penalize those who obey the laws- IE, not the problematic ones.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

Mate. There already IS a ban on assault rifles and machine guns. Very few can get one, and it takes a massive amount of paperwork to get them.

Seems mum had one and legally, a teacher no less so hardly hard it seems to get licensed for one. And ill say again the law ONLY regulates post 1986 models. There is no kill by date on an Uzi or AK or M16 etc be it made in 1985 or 1945 they are all just as lethal.

As for paperwork it SHOULD take a massive amount of background checking along witha very high annual licence to boot, in fact there is NO reason to allow them at all, not for protection and not for hunting. the only reason you would want such a thing is if you wanted to be in a war.... Macho BS is all it is for owning this kind of hardware. This isnt gun club material this is army weaponry intended for a battlefield not innocent duck hunting or personal protection.

Yes ive shot guns, a revolver with 6 is AMPLE and should be more than enough protection and its not a semi self loader you really think you need multiple shot magazine ? You lot are ridiculously misinformed about what you actually need for protection and what you are brainwashed into by your own society to perceive you need you know that ? made Paranoid if you will.... you dont need a sledgehammer to crack a goddamn nut.

As for hunting ? well thats a different story and again isnt something I agree on anyway, killing for sport is a bad mindset to have in the first place

 

[DeletedUser34315]

Seems mum had one and legally, a teacher no less so hardly hard it seems to get licensed for one. And ill say again the law ONLY regulates post 1986 models. There is no kill by date on an Uzi or AK or M16 etc be it made in 1985 or 1945 they are all just as lethal.

As for paperwork it SHOULD take a massive amount of background checking along witha very high annual licence to boot, in fact there is NO reason to allow them at all, not for protection and not for hunting. the only reason you would want such a thing is if you wanted to be in a war.... Macho BS is all it is for owning this kind of hardware. This isnt gun club material this is army weaponry intended for a battlefield not innocent duck hunting or personal protection.

Yes ive shot guns, a revolver with 6 is AMPLE and should be more than enough protection and its not a semi self loader you really think you need multiple shot magazine ? You lot are ridiculously misinformed about what you actually need for protection and what you are brainwashed into by your own society to perceive you need and you know that ? made Paranoid if you will.... you dont need a sledgehammer to crack a goddamn nut.

As for hunting ? well thats a different story and again isnt something I agree on anyway, sport for killing is a bad mindset to have in the first place

Ridiculously misinformed? Have you ever been attacked?
Think maybe there's a reason police prefer semi-autos with larger magazines to revolvers? 6 shots is not enough for any kind of extended problem, or multiple attackers. I'd rather be left with 10 rounds left in the magazine once the attacker's taken care of, then be left with 0 shots and a pissed off attacker. It never hurts to be prepared.

Nor is a single shot rifle or a revolver enough to fight off an animal. On the 20th of November, a distinctly rabid coyote attacked one of my Pyranese- guess how it got taken care of?
Semi auto shotgun.
I've seen bears, mountain lions, and loads of coyotes- absolutely no way i'd want to deal with any of those with a single shot rifle or a revolver.

For the record, a semi auto rifle is NOT an assault rifle. A bushmaster is most certainly not one.

 

[DeletedUser]

Ridiculously misinformed? Have you ever been attacked?
Think maybe there's a reason police prefer semi-autos with larger magazines to revolvers? 6 shots is not enough for any kind of extended problem, or multiple attackers. I'd rather be left with 10 rounds left in the magazine once the attacker's taken care of, then be left with 0 shots and a pissed off attacker. It never hurts to be prepared.

That's right! Mooooaaaar bullets! Try aiming.

Nor is a single shot rifle or a revolver enough to fight off an animal. On the 20th of November, a distinctly rabid coyote attacked one of my Pyranese- guess how it got taken care of?
Semi auto shotgun.
I've seen bears, mountain lions, and loads of coyotes- absolutely no way i'd want to deal with any of those with a single shot rifle or a revolver.

For the record, a semi auto rifle is NOT an assault rifle. A bushmaster is most certainly not one.

Again, try aiming instead of randomly shooting. And yes, a bolt action rifle or a revolver is just as dangerous as any semi-auto or fully automatic weapon in trained hands, for instance, professional British troops in 1914 were trained, and fully able to fire off aimed 15 rounds or so per minute using a bolt action rifle, a bolt action rifle with a 10-round magazine.
That's 15 aimed shots and a reload under a minute. On the battlefields of France this technique killed thousands of German troops.
Now go ahead and tell me that a non-automatic weapon is ineffective.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

Whoa there victor... as a shooter, let me explain how a gun works here...

No one can fire a sig sauer or a glock at 5 rounds a second.
A- your fingers do not move that fast.
B- the gun would be pointed at the roof after the second shot.
C- the 223 bushmaster is not a military rifle. It does not penetrate body armor, it is not a fully automatic firearm, and it does not have the stopping power of a good rifle.

You don't think anyone should be allowed semi auto guns?
Have you shot a gun?
Almost every handgun is semi auto- that's how guns WORK. Even revolvers are semi auto- 1 trigger pull, 1 shot.
You don't need those guns listed above for protection or hunting?
How in the hell do you expect to be able to do a damn thing against a home invader with a single shot weapon?
You want to have only 1 chance to hit them, and then be left fumbling trying to reload your gun for another single shot at the attacker?
NONE of the weapons you show in that picture are fully automatic- it takes reams of paperwork and massive amounts of time to acquire fully automatic weapons.

I say it again- a gun ban would just penalize those who obey the laws- IE, not the problematic ones.

If your a shooter you know very well the difference between a revolver and say a sig.
Actually the speed is pretty irrelevant its the number of rounds it holds and the loading mechanism and time required to do so you know that.

Again your deciding whats a military weapon and whats not, children and the public do NOT wear body armour and I hope never will have to. I'm not sure of the power of an AK vs body armour but it dosnt stop it still being extremely popular even in the world today.

Probably its a good idea to bring up ammo available as well because theres a big difference there too ive no idea if theres a range for the bushmaster but im betting there is.

Heres the real reason, people do not like having their toys taken away from them even if its for the good of others or told that actually theres just too many nutjobs out there now and matches in the hands of idiots has to stop..... there was never a need to allow upgrades in weaponry to be sold to the public, its nuts but of course it MAKES MONEY so yay for free markets. Like so much else the US public has more offered on a plate to it than its responsibility can handle, that much is becoming more and more clear as time goes on.

You want to play with high tech killing toys you join the forces and theres plenty, you leave you dont need them any longer. Its a mindset and im not saying you cant have a gun I am saying you don't need the firepower you think you do.

I cannot believe people still think you need overkill for basic personal protection, you don't live in a war torn country for crissake. You make it more efficient and easy to kill and allow the public access this is what you get, carnage.

Ridiculously misinformed? Have you ever been attacked?
Think maybe there's a reason police prefer semi-autos with larger magazines to revolvers? 6 shots is not enough for any kind of extended problem, or multiple attackers. I'd rather be left with 10 rounds left in the magazine once the attacker's taken care of, then be left with 0 shots and a pissed off attacker. It never hurts to be prepared.

Nor is a single shot rifle or a revolver enough to fight off an animal. On the 20th of November, a distinctly rabid coyote attacked one of my Pyranese- guess how it got taken care of?
Semi auto shotgun.
I've seen bears, mountain lions, and loads of coyotes- absolutely no way i'd want to deal with any of those with a single shot rifle or a revolver.

For the record, a semi auto rifle is NOT an assault rifle. A bushmaster is most certainly not one.

Oh come on youd think you live in die hard movies or zombie flesh eaters or something.

Yea yea the US is a terrible wild and dangerous place re the animal kingdom all over the place.

Heres the truth 22 kids just got blown away simply because another kid whos mother was a TEACHER not an ex soldier had these weapons available to her to purchase and she did......and instead of protecting it got her killed ironically by the very person they were probably bought to protect in the first place. Along with 7 or 8 others and has devastated an entire community in less time than it takes to complete a duel on this game, thats the bottom line.

 

[DeletedUser34315]

I don't live in die hard, don't be an idiot. I live on a ranch, which seems to be a foreign concept to you.

Tigermite, yes, please, have the shock of a person suddenly attacking you.
Draw your gun. Fire perfectly accurately.
YOU CAN'T.

I say the cliche yet again......... if you ban powerful guns, there will still be powerful guns, but those who respect the law won't have them.

 

[DeletedUser]

Most drugs are illegal in most US states, and yet I could still get pretty much anything. During Prohibition, alcohol production and consumption skyrocketed. Guns are no different. Legal or no, if you want a gun, you'll get a gun.