event sets obsolence and frequency

[Symbiote]

howdies

let me stress something out about sets functionalities and how often they are updated to better versions.

i was absent for 10 years and at first this many sets was much of a visual pollution but after a while you get it, the recent stuff is the good stuff. my concern is for how long a set lasts and how that affects xmas sales with the previous 4 years of event equipments. let me give you the big picture of what i mean by telling how many sets and for what purposes they were available during the 2022 xmas sales and how many will be for the 2023 one.

correct me if any is missing, but the main sets functions are for: speed, experience (15s and churchs), money (luck or products), duels (atk/def;dodge/reduction), ff (atk/def;dmg/tank) and sleeping.

2022 xmas had 2019-2022 4 main events sales, minus 2022 dotd. let us check all the sets availables, by category of function:

speed: Baker's (2019) / Locomotive (2020) / Alfred (2021) / Younger (2022) /
xp (15s / 1h): Munich (2019) / Marshall's (2020) - Cortez (2020) / Paden (2022) / Colombian (2022) - Independence (2023)
$$ (15s / 1h): Revere's (2020) - Fisherman (2020) / Cowboy (2022) - Boswell (2022) / Skeleton (2022) - Waite (2023) - Helen (2023)
ff atk (dmg/tank): Captain (2020) / Carl (2021) - Wilson (2021) / Bull (2022) / Sousa (2023)
ff def (dmg/tank): Cortina (2020) / Astor (2022) - Bassett (2022) / Leavenworth (2023)
ff mix (dmg/tank): Phoebe (2019) - Livingston (2019) / Station (2020) / Ron (2021) - Adams (2021) - /
sleep: Santa (2020) /
duel atk (dodge/reduce) (firearm/meele): Hamilton (2019) - Cowgirl (2019) - Vaquero (2019) / Bounty (2020) - Boatswain (2020) / Jaguar (2021) / Brook (2022) - Owens (2022) / Polly (2023)
duel def (dodge/reduce) (firearm/meele): McLaughin's (2019) - Highlander(2019) / Thomas (2021) - Behan (2021) / Sarah (2022) / Polly (2023) - Male Okto (2023)

2023 xmas additions will be in bold.

some sets with no main purpose are not mentioned. 2023 xmas set is unknown. adventure sets are not mentioned cause i have no idea how they are (never did adv). freebie event sets not mentioned since they can't be dropped again. same for valentine exclusive sets.

the main point on xmas sales is for newcomers to be able to get previous sets during an avalanche of chests. thing is: how long should it take for a set funcionality to be updated and available in xmas chests? apart from adv, i count 14 types of sets and we have 11 tombola event sets, 4 freebies and 1 xmas set during the year. 2 more valentine sets? should there be a pattern on how frequent we see new sets in a way that every xmas sales, with 4 years of chests, contains the latest tech for said use and a second previous version of it? tl;dr set updates are always 2 years apart. speed is yearly updated since that is heavy burden for newcomers and xmas always delivers pajamas (this could take 8h of sleep to 60 min or even 30 tho...)

for what i see now, set launch patterns are fuzzy and random. having it in a fixed schedule sounds very predictable and generally safe to be assured on when the good stuff will come. would every set type be launched in the very same event or is that too predictable? like, exact 2 years apart? is randomness better? freebie event sets are not accounted for this, but they should be generally a good latest version for some random usage to reward players that stick around for long. what to do with random stats sets? are they a funny?

obsessive compulsive disorder? equilibrium? chaos is better? damn this took me a while to gather info and write, thx for reading

 

[Symbiote]

damn im illiterate


ob·so·les·cence
/ˌäbsəˈles(ə)ns

noun

1. the process of becoming obsolete or outdated and no longer used.
   "computers are infamous for their rapid obsolescence"

 

[Symbiote]

update: since xmas chest is droppable on all other chest, then xmas sets should alternate between sleepy and speedy sets, these are the very basics and should not be too scarce as if walking and sleep fsat is an exclusivity. or maybe a 4 sequence of sleep - speed - murrieta grade mixed tank ff set - murrieta grade mixed dmg set, so all of these will be plenty. are xmas sets doomed to be lame every year or so? santa and cowboy are dope but merry was trash.

xmas sets are the most available and we should use that as a base for these trivial sets.

 

[Ektoras BOTrini]

Stop making new sets and bring back poker.

 

[Beefmeister]

there was never a pattern in how the sets are released...except the events are indeed the same and pretty much predictable. now you can predict sales after every event too which is pretty bad and just a cash grab.

sets aren't a problem in my opinion...you have to release something new to keep the cash flowing in-game. the problem is, even with that, there's not much to do in this game. it's outdated, it's boring. you need to find new ways to keep people entertained when in 5 years you had one, maybe two decent events..
and i think there's been suggestions, but as always...you know

 

[BigNoob]

Every year comes with 18 new sets from events (2 Valentines 4 Easters 4 Independences 4 Oktoberfests 3 Day of the deads 1 Christmas) plus some more during sales like Comte de Rochambeau. Long story short is dont stress yourself with past sets as soon enough you will see a new set better than the last one in some event made to push players to use their credit card to buy nuggets to get a temporary edge on what is right now 13,5 dying worlds.

 

[Symbiote]

Stop making new sets and bring back poker.

nugget gambling poker

 

[Poker Alice]

Okay, tell me this dang game is crazy? And such a dilemma. Upgrade, upgrade the upgrades, yeah lets do that! So here I am, just arrived at my brand new job but can't decide which purse to use. I mean the green one is pretty and it matches my skirt but instead sacrifice my good sense and substitute the purple parasol instead that looks to me like a football with a string hanging down, once you see it can't be un-seen. And look at the job I'm doing any ole way. It is way above my pay grade. Thank you Mr. Up Grade. Wait. There is another lovely fellow there too. His level is 41 half shaven and is wearing a Mec-e-can some bra-oh hat, black skirt, belted with a black bow, pretty flowers and high button up booties doing a level 104 job too. All thanks to Mr. Up Grade. Crazy!

 

[Harriet Oleson]

there was never a pattern in how the sets are released...except the events are indeed the same and pretty much predictable. now you can predict sales after every event too which is pretty bad and just a cash grab.

sets aren't a problem in my opinion...you have to release something new to keep the cash flowing in-game. the problem is, even with that, there's not much to do in this game. it's outdated, it's boring. you need to find new ways to keep people entertained when in 5 years you had one, maybe two decent events..
and i think there's been suggestions, but as always...you know

In my opinion sets are a problem in the meaning they are too powerfull. The more sets bring AP/SP/bonuses, the more a lot of things become obsolet : the previous sets, crafted buffs, LP requirements for jobs, difficult quests which now are still difficult (requirements of 50h of work remain requirements of 50h of work) but the rewards became obsolet cause not enough powerfull anymore compared to the effort, etc. Lots of class char bonuses became imbalanced too because of this huge amount of SP/AP/bonuses brought by the sets, as well as the amount of AP/SP we can win while levelling up ...

Between the obsolesence of everything that these sets create; the fact they create bigger and bigger gaps in results and so an imbalance in pvp (especially in duels which is a 1vs1 pvp activity. In FF there are also imbalances but not the same type cause it's a team game : against too well equipped tanks, their are also too well equipped damagers and reciprocally; the problems come mostly when a side have more well equipped toons than the other one); all of this and the fact that the team seems to want to continue to release new sets more and more powerfull, that makes me wonder where will be the limit ? Cause it has to be one somewhere : the team could try to limit the problem by balancing a bit more the game like by adapting the crafted buffs or the old quest rewards etc, in the same way they made all AP/SP brought by old gear in shops proportional to level to limit their obsolecence compared to sets. But if sets get even better, soon all these changes would become obsolet and imbalanced once again. It has no end if the set system doesn't change.

I agree it's important the team releases new stuff though, so players wouldn't get too bored, especially the few ones who manage to get the best sets quite easily (as well as to bring money to the game). But in that case maybe everything would be less problematic if all futur "too good sets" (ie the ones who could potentially imbalanced the game) were temporary ? I mean : if after first use, the items would be deleted from the inventory after let's say one month (like flower pot, except here it'd be for wearable items). If sets like Union had been temporary, they wouldn't have imbalanced the game in a long term way cause currently nobody would have it in their inventory anymore. Of course their should be some limitations like in the number we could own at the same time otherwise players would buy 12 of them and use one every month so they could use it all year long lol. But if that was doable, I think it could be good for the game, knowing this kind of things 1- may limit the problem of obsolecence and imbalance if everything else is balanced according to the current permanent gear, 2- should be pretty incentive to stay active in the game (if we know the item will be deleted after first use, when we start using it we wouldn't want to waste it by not using it and so we'd stay active), and 3- be as incentive to spend money in the game (real or virtual) than permanent sets, cause even if temporary, they'd be OP and at each new sale, players may be tempted to buy a new one (the previous one being deleted if already used). Old and new permanent sets could still be won/bought but none should be "OP" anymore, everything being balanced according to the permanent sets, and the OP thing being only temporary.

I'm writting this, but I have a doubt that the community could appreciate an idea like that, knowing we are used to own for good our sets after buying/winning them. Maybe I'm wrong or there are other ways to solve this but once again : in my opinion as long as the set system remains as it is, everything can only become/stay obsolet or imbalance the game even more.

 

[darthmaul99174]

Things need to change though, no one wants to spend money or lots and lots of time for the exact same set +1 stat.

The reason imbalances are so bad, or just generally weird results is because this is nearly a 20 year old game and was designed for shop items at like lvl 1-120?

The games mechanics and activities need to be updated and built upon, simultaneously updating sets along side them.

 

[Beefmeister]

In my opinion sets are a problem in the meaning they are too powerfull. The more sets bring AP/SP/bonuses, the more a lot of things become obsolet : the previous sets, crafted buffs, LP requirements for jobs, difficult quests which now are still difficult (requirements of 50h of work remain requirements of 50h of work) but the rewards became obsolet cause not enough powerfull anymore compared to the effort, etc. Lots of class char bonuses became imbalanced too because of this huge amount of SP/AP/bonuses brought by the sets, as well as the amount of AP/SP we can win while levelling up ...

Between the obsolesence of everything that these sets create; the fact they create bigger and bigger gaps in results and so an imbalance in pvp (especially in duels which is a 1vs1 pvp activity. In FF there are also imbalances but not the same type cause it's a team game : against too well equipped tanks, their are also too well equipped damagers and reciprocally; the problems come mostly when a side have more well equipped toons than the other one); all of this and the fact that the team seems to want to continue to release new sets more and more powerfull, that makes me wonder where will be the limit ? Cause it has to be one somewhere : the team could try to limit the problem by balancing a bit more the game like by adapting the crafted buffs or the old quest rewards etc, in the same way they made all AP/SP brought by old gear in shops proportional to level to limit their obsolecence compared to sets. But if sets get even better, soon all these changes would become obsolet and imbalanced once again. It has no end if the set system doesn't change.

I agree it's important the team releases new stuff though, so players wouldn't get too bored, especially the few ones who manage to get the best sets quite easily (as well as to bring money to the game). But in that case maybe everything would be less problematic if all futur "too good sets" (ie the ones who could potentially imbalanced the game) were temporary ? I mean : if after first use, the items would be deleted from the inventory after let's say one month (like flower pot, except here it'd be for wearable items). If sets like Union had been temporary, they wouldn't have imbalanced the game in a long term way cause currently nobody would have it in their inventory anymore. Of course their should be some limitations like in the number we could own at the same time otherwise players would buy 12 of them and use one every month so they could use it all year long lol. But if that was doable, I think it could be good for the game, knowing this kind of things 1- may limit the problem of obsolecence and imbalance if everything else is balanced according to the current permanent gear, 2- should be pretty incentive to stay active in the game (if we know the item will be deleted after first use, when we start using it we wouldn't want to waste it by not using it and so we'd stay active), and 3- be as incentive to spend money in the game (real or virtual) than permanent sets, cause even if temporary, they'd be OP and at each new sale, players may be tempted to buy a new one (the previous one being deleted if already used). Old and new permanent sets could still be won/bought but none should be "OP" anymore, everything being balanced according to the permanent sets, and the OP thing being only temporary.

I'm writting this, but I have a doubt that the community could appreciate an idea like that, knowing we are used to own for good our sets after buying/winning them. Maybe I'm wrong or there are other ways to solve this but once again : in my opinion as long as the set system remains as it is, everything can only become/stay obsolet or imbalance the game even more.

i want to say that the game is much more balanced right now than it was in the last 5-6 years, if we're talking fort fights. if we're talking duels, it's always been broken. now it's a bit more broken than before because of bad development. adventures...yeah. playing around the map, jobs, etc...you need better sets to actually do those jobs (for now, until you reach a higher level)

ok, i will agree with you and say that the sets are too powerful. what are you gonna do with that? how do you see this game going forward if not releasing new sets? me and many other players, we kinda completed the game. where do we go from here? what do we spend in-game cash on, real money? there's nothing to this game apart from tombolas. when there isn't an event happening, this game is dead.

a rehaul of the gameplay is out of question. it's obvious for everyone. with a part time dev and one update per month it's impossible to do anything about it.

your temporary sets suggestions is a bit ironic, because in a nutshell, all those sets are actually temporary a better one is usually released in less than a year (at the current pace). unless it's a nugget set. the free ones, they become obsolete, so it's the same as deleting them.

the gap is not between sets, it's between players with higher level and the willingness to keep investing time in this game...upgrading sets, getting the best available, spending more money. the economy and stock of items is also dictated by the players.
you cannot blame the developers of the game for renewing the meta every year. or you can't blame the devs for the sides being unbalanced in-game. as long as meta is balanced and the sets are up to standard (not that it is but it's close, at least in terms of fort fights), it's up to every player to conform to it.


the development of this game is as limited as the people that are coordinating it and funds being put in the game. maybe the first step is a rehaul of the classes...and not like the one they implemented on beta. an actual good one. and new content, new ways to play. games stay relevant by adding new ways to interact, it's universal..

but you just cannot expect a change of system. it won't happen, ever. this isn't world of warcraft or who knows what other example of success. there are so many changes to be made but it will never happen without a miracle. i'm known to be pessimistic but i think it's better than dreaming for nothing

 

[Thanatoss]

We see the game going almost the right direction... Unfortunately they cant really do much... Hadn't the code been so old they would have developed this game much more... Ino makes around 100k per year from this game an investment of 10-20k would be needed for the game to go mobile and become great again

 

[Harriet Oleson]

I must have chosen my words badly cause I never suggested to not release new sets anymore lol : on the contrary I explicitly wrote "I agree it's important the team releases new stuff" and that's even why I suggested an idea where a new type of SETS could be released ... As well as I've never written about a full rehaul of the gameplay : saying something has to be changed in the set system doesn't mean EVERYTHING has to be changed ... Once again with the example given, the core of the system would remain the same (=events with new sets released), just with a new type of sets available among others. It's not even difficult to implement cause temporary items already exist in the game; it would just need to make it possible for wearable items (it's mostly a matter of class object properties; not a new full module to add).

Also my message didn't concern especially FF nor old players who have already done everything in the game but just the set system in a general way. Boredom and imbalance/obsolescence are different things; it's related in some aspects, especially if I had suggested to not release new sets anymore but I didn't lol. And about boredom itself, I fully agree that new game possibilities would be a pretty good thing to make the game active again. But once again here I was only commenting the part put in bold in my other message. New game possibilities wouldn't fix the balance problem/obsolescence that sets create though. I know you wrote in your opinion some aspects of the game are better balanced now than compared to X years ago, but the point I was making was about "sustainability". If today some part of the game may appear as more balanced than at a certain time, the whole system isn't necessarily persistent neither. To quote again the example of the shop gears where AP/SP were put proportional to level instead of low flat values : it indeed made them less obsolet but for how long if the new sets have proportional coeff bigger and bigger ?

Also, of course with the current system, new better set make obsolet the previous ones and we can consider them as "deleted". But the point I was making, was : currently, this "better and better" thing doesn't have any limit which creates gaps potentially without any limit too, especially with the higher level. About this, you wrote the problem wasn't the sets but the higher level, but isn't the difference of level a problem only because sets bring AP/SP proportional to level and with proportional coefficients bigger and bigger ?
In any case, if all new OP sets were temporary (and the new average ones were still permanent), the limit would be defined : the idea is that no new permanent set would be much better than the current better ones; and all the new really better ones would be temporary. That's not the same at all than the current obsolescence ... First because the new temporary OP sets wouldn't be better than the previous temporary sets but only better than the permanent gear. I feel like I'm still not clear so with an example : if a temporary set A is better than most permanent gear; it'll be used by toons and deleted after some time for everyone who used it fully. If a temporary set B is released afterwards, better than most permanent gear but less good than A, that won't make B useless cause A wouldn't exist anymore; on the contrary, B would still be better than other current gear so it would still represent the "must have" set. Obsolescence of OP sets wouldn't really exist anymore as long as they are temporary and "OP" only compared to permanent gear; not between themselves. [Just for the precision but I write "OP" but it's just a shorter way to say "pretty good sets", no need for them to be really fully OP].
Also, a duration would make everything different compared to permanent sets : at some point we may not have OP set anymore from certain types in our inventory, which means we could only rely on the permanent gear, upgrade and buffs when it happens, which would make usefull again some sets we may have considered as obsolet if the OP sets weren't temporary. That's a situation that CAN'T happen at all in the current system : once obsolet, a set is just obsolet for good. Here, with best sets being temporary, according to how and when players would use these temporary sets we could see larger number of configurations in results and in ways of playing, some players having in stock OP duel attack sets but already used all their OP duel defense set for example, allowing sometimes to reach toons who used to be unreachable or reciprocally. That's just an example.

Actually, I'm writting all of this but I didn't want to insist about this idea in particular cause I know there are some flaws in it, but I still wanted to explain it a bit more, cause seems like I didn't make myself pretty clear in my other message : you're attributing to me some thoughts contradictory to what I wrote lol. And by the way, I'm not dreaming about this; I know it won't be implemented not because it's difficult to implement (cause it's not) not even because of the "flaws" I see in it (they are secondary), but regarding players opinion. This kind of system could be frustrating (to see our best elements being deleted after lots of efforts to win/buy them), as well as I think lots of players like the "better and better" set system whatever if it imbalances the game as long as they can have an advantage of it. Because they are often the ones who spend the most money into the game, the possibility that it could be changed is close to 0 if they dislike the idea. I'm fully aware of that. But that doesn't change my opinion about the fact I think the game can't be balanced in a persistent way if the system stays as it is. The "temporary sets" was just an example of something which could be done to keep releasing new sets but while limiting the imbalance and obsolescence that this current "better and better" set system creates in general and a long term way. That doesn't prevent nor contradict the necessity to bring new game possibilities to prevent boredom though, cause once again : I agree with you about that, it'd be pretty good if there were some.

You may disagree with my message, no matter if it's about the suggested "solution" or even the fact there's a problem with sets, but once again I never wrote there shouldn't be new sets released nor a big change of the whole system was needed.

 

[darthmaul99174]

I wish I had the patience to read this

 

[svefn]

i want to say that the game is much more balanced right now than it was in the last 5-6 years, if we're talking fort fights. if we're talking duels, it's always been broken. now it's a bit more broken than before because of bad development. adventures...yeah. playing around the map, jobs, etc...you need better sets to actually do those jobs (for now, until you reach a higher level)

ok, i will agree with you and say that the sets are too powerful. what are you gonna do with that? how do you see this game going forward if not releasing new sets? me and many other players, we kinda completed the game. where do we go from here? what do we spend in-game cash on, real money? there's nothing to this game apart from tombolas. when there isn't an event happening, this game is dead.

a rehaul of the gameplay is out of question. it's obvious for everyone. with a part time dev and one update per month it's impossible to do anything about it.

your temporary sets suggestions is a bit ironic, because in a nutshell, all those sets are actually temporary a better one is usually released in less than a year (at the current pace). unless it's a nugget set. the free ones, they become obsolete, so it's the same as deleting them.

the gap is not between sets, it's between players with higher level and the willingness to keep investing time in this game...upgrading sets, getting the best available, spending more money. the economy and stock of items is also dictated by the players.
you cannot blame the developers of the game for renewing the meta every year. or you can't blame the devs for the sides being unbalanced in-game. as long as meta is balanced and the sets are up to standard (not that it is but it's close, at least in terms of fort fights), it's up to every player to conform to it.


the development of this game is as limited as the people that are coordinating it and funds being put in the game. maybe the first step is a rehaul of the classes...and not like the one they implemented on beta. an actual good one. and new content, new ways to play. games stay relevant by adding new ways to interact, it's universal..

but you just cannot expect a change of system. it won't happen, ever. this isn't world of warcraft or who knows what other example of success. there are so many changes to be made but it will never happen without a miracle. i'm known to be pessimistic but i think it's better than dreaming for nothing

My following comment may be a bit out of blue, but there's always a question of optimal resource allocation. Almost anything can be defined in such a setting.

Compared to other "offline" games, where you just have to go build smth and then log out (btw, quite a popular thing in mobile gaming) the west differs by having quite an active community, members of which are willing to help. And this is a resource they can use to make certain changes. Surely, I'm not saying about putting the game into open source dev, this won't happen 1000%, but I do believe that if there were a strategy other than "let's keep it the way we keep it", it would be possible to solve the resource allocation problem for this game quite optimally.

So in some sense it's not about the inability to change the way things are and the limitations, but the absence of will to overcome those limitations.