Electric Cars

[DeletedUser16008]

I'm actually surprised by all the hostility to a new discovery, which that article specifically addresses. The means and manner to put it into effect is something that will surely require more research, and ultimately it will need to be developed into something that is cost-effective. But, it is a fascinating discovery (or, more aptly, a rediscovery) and something that we should be celebrating instead of condemning. It does have potential applicability, even if on a limited framework.

hostility ? there you go again being dramatic, naaa as its been touted its just impractical. Why are you bringing computers into it ? totally irrelevant, this is about transport and the article posted so I don't have to be complete on all forms of electricity how its made etc ... we make our own electric field and probably will be walking batteries in the future but it also has nothing to do with this thread.

Theres nothing new in this and its not a discovery at all rather a proposal of existing technology being harnessed in a particular fashion. Not exactly a Darwinian moment.

PS your idea of economics are funny you attempt to say one is in fact two... poppycock start a thread my write ups are as accurate as they need to be for layman terms and this forum you njub.

 

[DeletedUser]

After reading through the article again. And you must keep in mind most of these debates involve science we are not all interested in science per se but ok..

ok so this doesnt involve recharging then. Your car is powered straight from the grid. ok still they have tested it stationary only i would like to see them power a car going at 100 miles per hour. But reading downwards to the comments I came upon this little gem:

That 10 kW per car is actually closer to 20 kW in real electric cars with lights, heaters, power steering, A/C, weather, wind... etc.

But, take 10 kW per car, have a car every 100 yards for 10 miles on both sides of a four-lane highway. How much power do you need? That's about 700 cars, which makes 7 megawatts.

Therefore the magnitude of the problem is roughly a megawatt a mile to power all the cars. You'd need one big 300 ft tall wind turbine per mile of road to power it (at least sometimes).

A single nuclear powerplant could operate 500-600 miles of highway. Still, there are many thousands of miles of road, and many many cars. There are more than 100 million cars in the whole country, and trying to run even 10% of that directly off of the grid would mean that you need 100,000,000,000 Watts of power, or roughly all the nuclear powerplants in operation in the US.

This is the reason why electric cars have to be charged slowly at night.

I looked at your figures and applied them to Denmark (Pop = 5.5m). I'll assume for simplicity that there's 1 car per 2 inhabitants and it's utilised for 2 hours/day.
That's (5.5m x 10kw (your figure) x 365)kwh/annum =circa 2 * 10^10 kwh/ann

Danish wind-power generation = 2000 Mw or 1.7 * 10^10kwh/ann

Incorporating some of your assumptions it would seem that for Denmark anyway, wind-power is nearly equal to car energy consumption.
Ofc this does not take any account of heavy road vehicles, variation of output and demand or increased efficiency of electric vs combustion engines. Still, as a ballpark figure it shows that your energy concerns may not be a deal-breaker.

(There's no real reason to recharge slowly or at night except to equalise demand btw.)

 

[DeletedUser563]

Its not actually that I am against this idea. it just seems impractical. Say 2 years after they build this they discover new technology that allows them to run your motor say for 500 kilometers and then you could recharge in say 20 minutes. What then? You just invested billions in a out dated technology. Electric Car production is now becoming mainstream. So I say give it a few years.

Also can you conceptualize building that infrastructure under say a 100 kilometer highway alone. When ever they build anything on our country after a year you pass the same structure or road , still under construction.?

 

[DeletedUser]

Just want to clarify Eli, it wasn't Jakkals' figures, he copied and pasted someone else' comments from the OP's link. That person's comments were later debunked and snickered a few times, but mostly it's because it wasn't an altogether insightful analysis.

Anyway, the two largest hydroelectric power stations have a capacity as much as 21 GW (Three Gorges Dam) and 14 GW (Itaipu Dam). Other environmentally prudent power stations have (or will have) capacities exceeding 2 GW. And don't forget, they can "and likely will" charge for use of such services, so don't be thinking this would be a not-for-profit infrastructure endeavor.

Oh, and Jakkals, can you conceptualize building 75,000 kms of highway? How about 55 million miles of paved roads?

Well, that's already been done in the U.S., and that was the easy part. Those roads are constantly being maintained, expanded upon, repaved, repainted, managed and monitored. In short, you seriously don't have a grasp of what can be done, as you don't realize what has already been done. Do yourself a favor and research Chesapeake Bay Bridge for things that were deemed impossible. For that matter, look up the Great Wall(s) of China, spanning over 6,000 km, built almost 2000 years ago.

Seriously, I just don't think you understand not only what is possible, but how things are made to be affordable.

 

[DeletedUser563]

you dont have the money not that , that was my point anyway. i didn't say it could not be done. but great go on your electric cars. the rest of the world will then be rid of the greatest plague on oil resources anyway and we can then drive around in our gasoline cars and laugh at the Americans...oops we are already doing this.

actually read through the comments to see where the poster is debunked and snickered. She actually comes with a lot of arguments afterwards including this interesting one. I guess one poster trying to discredit her actually in your opinion debunks her. Also snickered... there is no snickering its just the usual HS attack discredit the source by referring to some elusive other sources that disagrees with him without actually placing the counter arguments or referring us to actual links yawn.. but here is some further posts by her.
So :
No. I said 10% of 100 million - that's 10 million cars.

There are actually 254.4 million registered passenger vehicles in the US, and of those it is estimated that 125 million are in active use. Having 10 million cars on the roads needing power at the same time is not only plausible, it's extremely probable, considering that any two locations that are further than 50 miles apart would need a stretch of powered road in between them to give electric cars proper access.

Besides, you can't take a 1.6 GW EPR reactor and throttle it up and down to meet the demand. It takes two weeks to get it up and running at full tilt.

The actual power to run the cars would have to come from natural gas generators that can adjust to the demand, which would defeat the point of the electric car entirely.

[insert appropriate FAIL music for Hellstromm here something like da da da daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa FAIL]

 

[DeletedUser]

Most motorized transit is conducted within the current limits of modern batteries. The innovation linked in the OP would only extend that. However, battery technology is advancing constantly and things can only improve from here.

 

[DeletedUser]

its just the usual HS attack discredit the source by referring to some elusive other sources that disagrees with him without actually placing the counter arguments or referring us to actual links yawn..

Umm, Jakkals, an anonymous comment is not a "source." Point is, it was an invalid presentation, and was demonstrated as such by a different poster. Quoting further comments from this person doesn't validate your argument. In fact, you don't have an argument.

you dont have the money not that , that was my point anyway.

So your point is that "who" doesn't have the money yet? There are substantial opportunities and avenues for both public and private involvement, or do you think the government owns all the power stations?

 

[DeletedUser563]

Umm, Jakkals, an anonymous comment is not a "source." Point is, it was an invalid presentation, and was demonstrated as such by a different poster. Quoting further comments from this person doesn't validate your argument. In fact, you don't have an argument.


So your point is that "who" doesn't have the money yet? There are substantial opportunities and avenues for both public and private involvement, or do you think the government owns all the power stations?

My point was that you falsely discredited her. Something which you often do to win arguments in your mind atleast.

The U.S.A. dont have the money. Highways are under the control of the US government. Here we get private tollroads which I guess you are referring to. However this idea will never ever be implemented. It just requires too much new infrastructure, over emphasizes one "new" car technology over others like Biogas and hybrids and whatever they will come up with next, and would cater to a very small market at this moment .

Also this will mean that everyone on this road would have to drive "electric cars" as everyone will pay tolls representing the cost of this electricity. That includes your Biogas car, hybrids and the 100 million gasoline cars that is at this moment still on your roads Or will the energy company allow gasoline vehicles to drive freely on the 50 billion dollar highway they constructed for electric cars?. So my dear man stop barking against a tornado:this wont be implemented soon or at all (probably). Maybe not in either of our lifetimes.

So im still not certain whether it takes energy to keep the harmonics under the pavement going(think that was her one assumption), but you would have to build it for the biggest user(trucks) or create seperate highways for electric trucks.

Also the cost aspect for the user: We are about $1.50 per liter which takes me in city and open road exactly 15 kilometers. So is this setup going to cost me the same or more? And then will current motor manufacturers back this? There is just too many ifs and buts for this idea.........

 

[DeletedUser]

My point was that you falsely discredited her. Something which you often do to win arguments in your mind atleast.

No, I didn't. I presented a valid debunk of an anonymous poster that you keep claiming is a she.

The U.S.A. dont have the money. Highways are under the control of the US government. Here we get private tollroads which I guess you are referring to.

You honestly don't know how the U.S. roadways work, nor who owns them, nor how they are paid for. So how about you move onto something you do know about. Wait... is there anything you know about? Oh right, science... *chuckle*

However this idea will never ever be implemented. It just requires too much new infrastructure, over emphasizes one "new" car technology over others like Biogas and hybrids and whatever they will come up with next, and would cater to a very small market at this moment .

"Never" is a very big word. As to hybrids, you do realize that hybrids are a combination of electrical propulsion and "other" propulsion, right? This technology would effectively assist hybrids, as well as pure electrical. As to over or under-emphasizing, one of the main attractions to electrical propulsion is that it can be attained through any other form of energy, through conversion.

Your last argument there is just plain silly (almost as silly as your first argument). Of course it's a small market at the moment. So are all the other alternatives. This isn't an examination of what can be instituted right now, it's what can be instituted in the future (near or far).

Also this will mean that everyone on this road would have to drive "electric cars" as everyone will pay tolls representing the cost of this electricity.

You make a gross assumption. As this would be the consumption of electricity, it is quite reasonable that any obtainment of energy from such sources could be recorded in an onboard meter, with the details uploaded to a central station (or stations). Payments of which can either be directly paid through prepaid account credits, or bank debit or via credit card. It could just as well be tied to the DMV (government motor vehicle department). At present, if you have a pending moving ticket, you have to resolve it before your license is renewed. If there are unpaid parking tickets, it is added to the expense of renewing your vehicle license.

Also the cost aspect for the user: We are about $1.50 per liter which takes me in city and open road exactly 15 kilometers. So is this setup going to cost me the same or more? And then will current motor manufacturers back this? There is just too many ifs and buts for this idea.........

lol, "too many ifs and buts for this idea"... cute, and yet you earlier stated it will "never" happen, despite you not having sufficient information to work with.

As I previously indicated, eventually a cost analysis will need to be performed to determine possible variations in implementing this technology. It is premature to naysay this. In fact, it reminds me of how people naysayed the original automobiles, phonographs, lightbulbs, flight, orbiting the Earth, going to the Moon, going to Mars, etc and so on.

 

[DeletedUser563]

He /she was debunked in your opinion. Yes there was another poster she countered...you must bring your own calcs here to show us which is wrong.

You make a gross assumption. As this would be the consumption of electricity, it is quite reasonable that any obtainment of energy from such sources could be recorded in an onboard meter, with the details uploaded to a central station (or stations). Payments of which can either be directly paid through prepaid account credits, or bank debit or via credit card. It could just as well be tied to the DMV (government motor vehicle department). At present, if you have a pending moving ticket, you have to resolve it before your license is renewed. If there are unpaid parking tickets, it is added to the expense of renewing your vehicle license.

You dont think I though about it and weight that against the massive cost to the owner of the road. Since non electric cars especially trucks will in your system contribute nothing to his "spend" it is not a gross assumption that they would also be expected to pay. After all they are occupying the space a paying customer could take. Im the owner of a road.. "Ok everyone pays 0.50$ per mile and if you dont want to fine hit the backroads cheepo because this silver snake must be maintained I must replace stuff and I must keep a powerstation staffed and running and have personnel to ensure that every piece of that road keep working. And o yeah I must make tons of money because im american thats how we are brought up . And o'yeah I just won the whole gold coast I need you chumps to fund that for me. Oh you mind..ok here is a bit of reality I simply dont care its my road "

 

[DeletedUser]

You dont think I though about it and weight that against the massive cost to the owner of the road. Since non electric cars especially trucks will in your system contribute nothing to his "spend" it is not a gross assumption that they would also be expected to pay. After all they are occupying the space a paying customer could take. Im the owner of a road.. "Ok everyone pays 0.50$ per mile and if you dont want to fine hit the backroads cheepo because this silver snake must be maintained I must replace stuff and I must keep a powerstation staffed and running and have personnel to ensure that every piece of that road keep working. And o yeah I must make tons of money because im american thats how we are brought up . And o'yeah I just won the whole gold coast I need you chumps to fund that for me. Oh you mind..ok here is a bit of reality I simply dont care its my road "

Amazing rebuttal! Wow, I'm so impressed! I've never witnessed such amazing debate skillz! .. not ..

Whatever dude, let me know when you decide to post something relevant and not merely toss insults at Americans.

 

[DeletedUser563]

Oh you mean the space pen thing.. The classic american way of thinking invest millions in a pen that can write in space then the russians come along and find a 10 cent alternative a pencil :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Im just trying to stop another space pen incident to you guys. I can already see the first day the entire highway system build throughout the whole usa. Breaking news: Russian teen discovers chemical solution /new metal/substance that can be used to create a battery that can charge fully under 20 minutes and then can propulse an electric car for 10 hours....in other news our multi trillion highway was just completed

 

[DeletedUser]

Oh you mean the space pen thing.. The classic american way of thinking invest millions in a pen that can write in space then the russians come along and find a 10 cent alternative a pencil :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Im just trying to stop another space pen incident to you guys. I can already see the first day the entire highway system build throughout the whole usa. Breaking news: Russian teen discovers chemical solution /new metal/substance that can be used to create a battery that can charge fully under 20 minutes and then can propulse an electric car for 10 hours....in other news our multi trillion highway was just completed

It’s funny you seem to be putting Russia up on a pedestal but last time I checked the Soviet Union failed, but not that the US government is doing so well either. Human leadership is always flawed, it’s pointless arguing about which one is more flawed that the other.

 

[DeletedUser]

I must note that Jakkals's post is a failed comparison.......let's just continue to compare apples to oranges, shall we?

 

[DeletedUser]

Oh you mean the space pen thing.. The classic american way of thinking invest millions in a pen that can write in space then the russians come along and find a 10 cent alternative a pencil :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Im just trying to stop another space pen incident to you guys.

Demonstrating your gullibility and ignorance again I see. That space pen scene is a myth. Go do some homework --->

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fact-or-fiction-nasa-spen
http://history.nasa.gov/spacepen.html

"A common urban legend states that, faced with the fact that ball-point pens will not write in zero-gravity, NASA spent a large amount of money to develop a pen that would write in the conditions experienced during spaceflight (the result purportedly being the Fisher Space Pen), while the Soviet Union took the simpler (and cheaper) route of just using pencils.
Russian cosmonauts used pencils, and grease pencils on plastic slates until also adopting a space pen in 1969 with a purchase of 100 units for use on all future missions. NASA programs previously used pencils (for example a 1965 order of mechanical pencils) but because of the substantial dangers that broken-off pencil tips and graphite dust pose in zero gravity to electronics and the flammable nature of the wood present in pencils a better solution was needed. NASA never approached Paul Fisher to develop a pen, nor did Fisher receive any government funding for the pen's development. Fisher invented it independently, and then asked NASA to try it. After the introduction of the AG7 Space Pen, both the American and Soviet (later Russian) space agencies adopted it." ~ excerpts from the above articles, collated on Wikipedia.​

Isn't it nice to know you still don't know what you're rambling about?

 

[DeletedUser563]

why did you take so long with that rebuttal i picked it up yesterday after an hour. Well I am all out of points anyway :was about 3 posts back.

Ps ignorance and stating incorrect facts is 2 different thing. Watch it now buddy!!!
Ignorance:The condition of being uninformed or uneducated. Lack of knowledge or information.

Although I may have been uninformed yesterday of that one fact that does not make me ignorant:

Duduie is hanging around these alleyways. We wouldnt want her throwing your sorry:donkey: in forum jail.