Dueling question.

[DeletedUser]

I thought you could not challenge a person to a duel if you could not gain exp from the duel? I have been dueled with such a case and here is my duel report to show it.
Dreevin
Level 40
Dueling level 56

Duel location

WWW-Asylum

Masamune
Level 53
Dueling level 57
Challenger No hit

No hit Strike: Right arm
- 123 HP

No hit Strike: Left arm
- 139 HP

No hit Strike: Right arm
- 139 HP

No hit No hit

No hit Strike: Right arm
- 143 HP

No hit Strike: Left arm
- 141 HP

No hit Total health points
- 685 HP

No hit Dreevin passes out. Masamune wins the duel and gains 0 experience points. Dreevin did not carry any cash and Masamune walks away without taking any money.

 

[DeletedUser]

The attacker's motivation may be so low that they don't get experience.

 

[DeletedUser]

It isn't that you can't gain any xp from a single duel. The rule means that you can duel someone if you could gain xp if your motivation was at 100%. So if this person could get 5xp from dueling you at 100% they can duel you. If they can get 200xp at 100% they can duel you. If they let their dueling motivation go to 0 or near 0 they won't get any xp but can still duel you.

 

[DeletedUser]

Can someone please post the formula for determining if the attacker will get experience from the duel and perhaps provide an example? I'm still not clear on this system. IMHO, there should be an easy +/- dueling levels system. Like you have to be within +/-10 dueling levels to attack someone. Apparently, this is not the case though.

 

[DeletedUser]

The winner also receives experience points for the duel. How many points are received depends on the dueling level of the opponent.
Experience points = (7 * dueling level of the loser) - (5 * Dueling level of the winner) + 5

The Help File is a wonderful thing.

 

[DeletedUser]

The Help File is a wonderful thing.

Yes it is. I just found this on there. Makes much more sense than that formula.

Dueling requirements



There are a few conditions for starting a duel. Some players may not challenge each other.

• The defender has to be member of a town
• The challenger has to be member of a town. This town also needs a mortician.
• The challenger has to visit the town of the defender. The defender does not have to be in his town.
• The challenger needs at least 12 energy points.
• Both players have to be able to gain experience points from the duel. These are calculated from the dueling level.
• You may not challenge the same player more than once per hour.
• The defender may not have been knocked out within the last 48 hours.
• The challenger may not have been knocked out within the last 48 hours.
• The defender cannot be sleeping in a hotel.

I believe that formula that you posted has to do with dueling rewards, not for the requirements to initiate a duel. Now it makes a lot more sense.

Dueling reward

The winner of the a duel gets two rewards.
The winner receives a third of the cash the defender was carrying around. If the defender doesn't carry any money, the winner doesn't receive anything. If the defender gets knocked out he loses all his cash. The winner still only gets one third.
The winner also receives experience points for the duel. How many points are received depends on the dueling level of the opponent.
Experience points = (7 * dueling level of the loser) - (5 * Dueling level of the winner) + 5
The winner receives at least 5 experience points.

Dueling level

The dueling level of a player is calculated from his character level and the experience points the player has earned in duels. The more points were received, the higher the dueling level

Motivation

With each duel the motivation goes down by 3 points. A lower motivation means that less experience points are received. With a motivation of 50% the winner only receives half of the calculated points. It is always your own motivation that counts even if the defender wins. The motivation automatically goes up by 10 points per day.

 

[DeletedUser]

• Both players have to be able to gain experience points from the duel. These are calculated from the dueling level.

If you'd underlined this one, you'd see the XP formula is about both the rewards and whether or not you can initiate the duel.

 

[DeletedUser]

[/list]If you'd underlined this one, you'd see the XP formula is about both the rewards and whether or not you can initiate the duel.

Ok. But, like I stated on the other thread, there's no way that WE can know in advance who will win or lose the duel, so the formula doesn't do us any good in figuring out if we can intiate one or not. True? The computer program might be able to determine this, but we can't. Therefore, we would just have to go to a town and look at the dueling status of a particular player to see if we can duel them or not. That's probably where that formula's calculation comes into play.
Also, if an enemy dueler is close to our town, we should be able to click on his name, then click on his town name, then go to his town's saloon and look at his dueling status to see if he can initiate a duel on us or not. Yeah, that's the ticket. lol

 

[DeletedUser]

Ok. But, like I stated on the other thread, there's no way that WE can know in advance who will win or lose the duel, so the formula doesn't do us any good in figuring out if we can intiate one or not. True?

No. You don't need to know who will win. If your dueling level is greater than 5/7 of theirs, and less than 7/5 of theirs, then they can duel you. So if you have dueling level 35, you can duel or be dueled by players with dueling levels from 25 to 49.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well obviously someone that just started playing the game within the last 12 days knows better.

Look, if you go into someone's saloon and it shows you can get xp off of them by dueling them then you can duel them and they can duel you back. It's not rocket science.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well obviously someone that just started playing the game within the last 12 days knows better.

Look, if you go into someone's saloon and it shows you can get xp off of them by dueling them then you can duel them and they can duel you back. It's not rocket science.

Ouch. hmy:

 

[DeletedUser15816]

Well obviously someone that just started playing the game within the last 12 days knows better. Look, if you go into someone's saloon and it shows you can get xp off of them by dueling them then you can duel them and they can duel you back. It's not rocket science.

Ouch. hmy:

Wow ... I had the same question. You would expect that a moderator would want to encourage players to learn more about the game and to purchase a premium membership. Knowledge is power, and unfortunately, some use it as a club to beat people over the head with.

Both players have to be able to gain experience points from the duel. These are calculated from the dueling level.

[/list]
If you'd underlined this one, you'd see the XP formula is about both the rewards and whether or not you can initiate the duel.

The one to underline was this one: The winner receives at least 5 experience points.

It isn't that you can't gain any xp from a single duel. The rule means that you can duel someone if you could gain xp if your motivation was at 100%.

Then the helpfile should say that instead of: "The winner receives at least 5 experience points" as the last entry in the section. This is ambiguous and confusing, since there is nothing under Dueling Rewards or Motivation to specifically counter it.

The formula given in the helpfile reinforces this misconception:

Experience points = (7 * dueling level of the loser) - (5 * Dueling level of the winner) + 5

Substituting a zero for all level values still results in the winner getting at least 5 points. Apparently, then, the formula is closer to this:

Experience points = ((7 * dueling level of the loser) - (5 * Dueling level of the winner) + 5)) * (motivation/100)

where we divide the motivation by 100 to convert it to a percentage.

The Help File is a wonderful thing.

The helpfile for "The West" is often vague and incomplete. This is intentional in some cases, such as the mechanics of prayer or the recently-decloaked toughness/reflex formula. Still, the help is just too short to be represented as the Google of "The West".

Protecting new players from the risk of asking questions here is probably its primary value.

--

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm really not here to be liked. I certainly didn't post in this section as a moderator, but as a player. When you get asked the same questions over and over again and when the information asked for can be found in the help file and by doing a search of the forums AND when you tell someone on the forum how it works and they are challenging your answers then yes, I will point out that if they have only been playing 12 days or so there is a high probability that they are incorrect.

If Elmyr and I didn't answer these questions over and over again then 90% of this section of the forum would have either false information or no replies at all.

 

[DeletedUser]

Wow ... I had the same question. You would expect that a moderator would want to encourage players to learn more about the game and to purchase a premium membership. Knowledge is power, and unfortunately, some use it as a club to beat people over the head with.....
The helpfile for "The West" is often vague and incomplete..... just too short to be represented as the Google of "The West".....
Protecting new players from the risk of asking questions here is probably its primary value.

Indeed. The only stupid question is the one that you DON'T ask. It turns out that I was right, on this subject, all along. The only way to know for sure if you can duel someone is to check their dueling status in the saloon. That stupid formula uses variables that can't be known in advance, by a human being. Who is going to win the duel? How should I know if I haven't fought it yet? Duh.

Thanks Moonwind, for making me feel not-so-stupid. And shame on Desi and Elmyr for making me feel stupid, when I was pretty much right all along.
Maybe they've been doing this too long and are getting burnt out or something. Either that or they get off on proving their superiority to noobs. hmy: Did I say that? Ouch!!!

Ok, having gotten that off my chest, I will say this. I do appreciate your answers, most of the time. I have learned a lot from both of you. Just have a little more patience and humility next time. Thanks, JG

 

[DeletedUser]

That stupid formula uses variables that can't be known in advance, by a human being. Who is going to win the duel? How should I know if I haven't fought it yet? Duh.

Who is going to win the duel has nothing to do with it.

If I radically change my equipment (like I equip a Trumpet instead of my usual Precise Buntline), who I can duel does not change.

I really don't see what is hard to understand about what Denisero and Elmyr said...

 

[DeletedUser]

Can someone please post the formula for determining if the attacker will get experience from the duel and perhaps provide an example? I'm still not clear on this system. IMHO, there should be an easy +/- dueling levels system. Like you have to be within +/-10 dueling levels to attack someone. Apparently, this is not the case though.

Here was your original post. You asked for the formula and it was given to you. You then thanked me for linking you the help file then told me the formula isn't for determining who you can and can not duel. Infact that is how the game determines exactly that.

We don't have problems with people asking questions. When you can find the answer from using help or reading the Newbie guide or FAQs then it does become tedious for those that answer the same questions over and over again.

I don't think this is a good thing to take for granted. We need to find out for sure. Would Desinero know?

Funny, you seemed to want my opinion on that matter just the other day. Yet another thread where you kept asking for confirmation of something after you were told several times how the mechanic worked.

 

[DeletedUser]

Who is going to win the duel has nothing to do with it.
If I radically change my equipment (like I equip a Trumpet instead of my usual Precise Buntline), who I can duel does not change.
I really don't see what is hard to understand about what Denisero and Elmyr said...

Actually, the help file on this topic makes a lot more sense than using that formula to determine whether you can attack somebody or not. I wish I had read it first before posting on this thread. We could have avoided a lot of confusion. Instead, I chose to search the forum for keywords, which was a big mistake. That's where I read the posts about that formula. It wasn't on this thread, btw. Somehow the debate carried over to this thread though. Can we just drop this now? This is old news.

 

[DeletedUser]

Here was your original post. You asked for the formula and it was given to you. You then thanked me for linking you the help file then told me the formula isn't for determining who you can and can not duel. In fact that is how the game determines exactly that.

Yes, how the GAME determines it. We can only determine it by checking the saloon though.

We don't have problems with people asking questions. When you can find the answer from using help or reading the Newbie guide or FAQs then it does become tedious for those that answer the same questions over and over again.

Sorry for searching the forum for keywords, instead of looking in the help file first. My bad.

Funny, you seemed to want my opinion on that matter just the other day. Yet another thread where you kept asking for confirmation of something after you were told several times how the mechanic worked.

You and Elmyr didn't sound 100% sure on the timing of clothing changes issue. It seemed like it was based on limited tests. Elmyr's answers especially sounded unsure. I just wanted to be positive on that one, since I'm changing clothes a lot now.

You and Elmyr are a wealth of information, Desinero. Nobody's questioning that. It's just that your (and Elmyr's) patience, tact and humility need a little work. Like Moonwind said, "You would expect that a moderator would want to encourage players to learn more about the game and to purchase a premium membership. Knowledge is power, and unfortunately, some use it as a club to beat people over the head with.".
I have to agree with that statement. If the answer to every question is going to be "look in the help section or the newbie guide", then they wouldn't need you two to clarify things and provide a more detailed explanation. Sometimes the wording in the help section isn't perfect. Sometimes people search the forum for keywords and misunderstand the posts. Sometimes formulas are for one thing and someone says that they are for something else. Sometimes moderators don't sound 100% sure of their answers, so people tend to question them. lol
In those rare cases, patience is a virtue.

 

[DeletedUser]

Can we just drop this now? This is old news.

Er...the time date stamp of the message that I responded to was less than 1/2 hour ago...

That stupid formula uses variables that can't be known in advance, by a human being. Who is going to win the duel? How should I know if I haven't fought it yet? Duh.

But, yes, I think it's in your best interest to drop it.

 

[DeletedUser]

Er...the time date stamp of the message that I responded to was less than 1/2 hour ago....

Yes, but the comments you were referring to were from August 12th. That issue has already been resolved.