Countering the Resistant Spec Build

DeletedUser

Well, I don't know how he would do against high shooting builds, the screenshots I presume are all melee weapon users.
 

DeletedUser

Kageru said:
That's not how it works. If you have twice the opponents aim in dodging (a massive investment of points, which will leave you with a really weak attack or defence) you're still going to get hit 33% of the time and those hits are going to really hurt against a strength based melee build.
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You forgot that dodge is doubled again if you dodge correctly, making that 33% to hit only a 20% chance 60% of the time (You have two prone areas out of 5). I think the overall chance to hit is like 25.2% not a huge difference, but pumping dodge isn't the very best solution you are correct about that.
 

DeletedUser

Quantrillo said:
making that 33% to hit only a 20% chance 60% of the time (You have two prone areas out of 5). I think the overall chance to hit is like 25.2% not a huge difference, but pumping dodge isn't the very best solution you are correct about that.
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Im sorry, but I cant follow those percentages. Could you explain that a little bit more for those of us who see three percentages in a row and begin having issues :D
 

DeletedUser

Basically, to counter the resistance build, don't counter it.
By that I mean, if your opponents have high reflex/toughness, then don't put points into shooting/vigor (depending on whether you're melee or ranged).

Without any points in shooting or vigor, all of their SP are wasted. Then, you can put points into dodging and aim (as they will have low aim and dodging).

(That's what I would do, anyway)
 

DeletedUser

markusmaximus said:
Im sorry, but I cant follow those percentages. Could you explain that a little bit more for those of us who see three percentages in a row and begin having issues :D
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Sure, first thing to remember defenders dodge is twice the opponents aim this makes the normal chance to hit 2:1 or 33% as Kageru said. Now on the duel screen you can block 3 areas and leave 2 prone which means 3 out of 5 times the defender is doubling his dodge once more, this is 60% of the time. So if his dodge is doubled once more then defender has 4x dodge to attackers aim, now the chance to hit is 1:4 or in percentages 20%. So to work out the average chance to hit you take 5 rounds.

20+20+20+33+33/5=25.2%

If you are someone who never uses headshots then you can discount this and you are looking at 50% of the time hitting the prone position so over eight rounds it would look like this.

20+20+20+20+33+33+33+33/8=26.5%
 
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DeletedUser

Those numbers in the pictures Quantrillo posted above are pretty much what I (ranged duellist) see against a melee resistance build. Note the battles with wilber27 and wantedbt where the defender gets a strong advantage in number of attacks that land but still loses because they just can't deliver or resist enough damage. Most of those guys are melee though, apart from battlemachine in the first pic (132/875).

The best melee person I've seen only aims at wrists (because they can do more damage on a wrist hit than I can on a headshot!). They attack once to find out which attacks are dodged and then correct their targeting. Since there's no dodge that will cover both wrists they'll pretty quickly overcome the dodge bonus.

The other advantage of course is that vigor and toughness are good job skills as well. A ranged duellist who really pumps aim and dodge is going to be doing pretty terrible jobs.

End result is the attribute points are badly arranged. Strength gives more per point than the other options because vigor and toughness give better returns than dodge or aim when pumped high, plus you get free health. I don't really have any strong idea of how valuable tactics and appearance are but my suspicion is they are even weaker than aim and dodge.

It should be:

Strength: Vigor, Toughness
Mobility: aim, dodge
Dexterity: shooting, reflex
charisma: tactics, appearance.
 
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DeletedUser

Sorry to Bump a dead thread, but it's seemingly appropriate considering the modifications to Tough and Flex -

I myself am Resistance dueler, anyone on world 9 probably knows that.

I've ran into a slew of not only Melee, but Firearm duelers who can beat me. I think the underlying problem is - there are too many people either unwilling, or uneducated enough to take the time to sit down, crunch numbers and build properly. This has all been trial and error up to this point. As players we've spent a huge amount of time specing' over and over again - not to mention purchasing premium to accelerate the process.

We're in turn rewarding players with less conscionable prowess by altering the set skills that both gun fighters and melee duelers can both appreciate. if you want to curve the dueling aspect of the game -

a melee dueler wouldn't hold a sword at their hip in a draw position - so, like hands, make the shoulders ( one or the other ) always open to attack like the hands, but apply this only to melee duelers; simulating the swinging motion of a sword.

This would make melee duelers open to higher damage attacks, thus yielding an even damage reciprocation between equally built players, whether they be wielding the same or opposite weapons.

Just my two cents. I could delve into it the subject deeper if anyone is interested. message me on world 9.

-Rip
 

DeletedUser

And isn't the new resistance calculation (capped at resisting down to 50% damage, instead of almost 0%) going to make a significant difference to the effectiveness of resistance duelers?
 

DeletedUser

Kageru said:
That's not how it works. If you have twice the opponents aim in dodging (a massive investment of points, which will leave you with a really weak attack or defence) you're still going to get hit 33% of the time and those hits are going to really hurt against a strength based melee build.

You can win as a firearms duellist, you have to rely on getting lucky with dodges because you won't have the same degree of resistance, but the superior points economy and gear for melee duellists means they'll always have the advantage.
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Yup...don't believe those that will claim a high dodge can defeat the resistance dueler....it generally won't. A resistance dueler, unless your Vigor / Shooting is very high, will win the battle if they hit you just once. And they probably will hit you at least once...

The ONLY way to beat a resistance dueler is to have a high enough Shooting / Vigor to do more damage than they can muster. Do this with a combination of probably 1/2 to 2/3rds of your points into damage (Vigor / Shooting) and the rest into Aim, Dodge, Appearance and Tactics.
 
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