Adventure Abuse

[DeletedUser26820]

I don't know if the one I experienced earlier today is an isolated incident, and if so then my apologies for an unneeded thread, but if it's not, others now have a place to discuss similar encounters and to possibly discuss remedies, because it could/should be categorized as game abuse.

I play adventures with my Manitu's weapon set. A LOT of toons attend and participate in adventures with event weapon sets, as well as L2 Outlaw Rifles.

I attended an adventure earlier today. Teams were drawn and it started.
As soon as it started, a member of the team posted that he "...could not and would not support a teammate with an event weapon or L2 Outlaw's rifle...", and disconnected for the duration of the adventure.

Now this toon had the option, as does all of us, of quitting the adventure BEFORE it started. I've exercised that option several times, as it's an option that equally applies to all toons. We've taken our time penalty and rejoined when allowed.

But in this instance, this toon chose NOT TO QUIT before it started because that would give him a time penalty before being allowed to join another one.
Instead, he intentionally waited for the adventure to start, stated his intent of not helping the team because of a weapon that's on his team that the game allows, disconnects for the duration of the adventure, thereby intentionally sabotaging and ruining an adventure reward opportunity for his teammates.

Some folks might post that I'm an event weapon set owner being a whiner. OK.
How about his other teammate that wasn't but held in there and was stuck wasting time in a guaranteed loss?
And it's not about a loss. Going up against other event set weapon set and L2 Outlaw's rifles owners, I've lost my fair share of them.

This is about an opportunity for a toon, any toon, to intentionally deny and sabotage his teammates, other toons, an opportunity for max reward from an adventure.

Please post here if you encounter the same.
Otherwise, I'll call it an isolated incident.

See you at the next adventure....

 

[Sambee]

As of this moment I have not touched adventures, but I can see that it would be annoying as this happens in a lot of online games.
I do wish people would think past their own benefits and help out a stranger every now and then.

If people are going to post in this thread, please refrain from naming and shaming. Only use she/he/they/etc.

 

[DeletedUser35120]

If anything can be done to deal with this situation is using referees or moderators who would actively look into these sort of situations if/when it arrives. Having a abuse prevention system for cases like these is impossible. People might DC mid-game due to internet failure, power failure, rl issues.. hell with so many earthquakes happening around the world, maybe an earthquake struck him, and he chose to save his :donkey: instead of playing the adventure? So yeah, bots or abuse prevention systems won't help people out in this situation. People who actually needed to leave for a valid reason might get penalized unnecessarily.

Also, stating a fact.. I'm in no way defending the player for what he/she did. i.e. leaving the game after it started, but maybe he chose to leave after it started so he gets away without dealing with the penalty (that is he/she can't join another adventure for x minutes/hrs). Had he/she left from the lobby a penalty would have been incurred. Why would a player chose to leave from the lobby than from the game mid-way when you can get away with your crime easily in the latter scenario?

The adventure abuse prevention system as a whole is messed up. As far as my ideas go, I think adventures need to have a individual stats and rankings section outside of the game so people can be penalized for quitting in the middle of the game or leaving from the lobby or abusing players, and what not. You commit a game crime, here's 100 points taken away from your individual stats. And there you go further down the adventure rankings.

P.S:- Ranking system along these lines [spoil]

[/spoil] would be awesome ..but hey, it's a dying game, can't expect a big update to happen.

 

[DeletedUser35352]

So you would like to force players to play an adventure if it has started...?
Many event gun owners deliberately equip their guns in last seconds before start, how about some rules about that?
And to be clear - i dont play with event gun players as in those adventures the fun is only onesided. How about to start a treat to ensure balance when teams are created?
Sadly the credit cards cant be used to buy njub players who would play along while you have fun with this overpowered guns...

 

[DeletedUser26820]

Anny --

You might be on to something, but we both know there's never going to be referees or moderators at each and every adventure. I think there are things that can be done to minimize abuse in this dynamic. The "issue" of the thread is not about a DC of a team mate as we've all had our share of them. It's about the opportunity of a team mate to disconnect when he says, "your gear and gun is too good for me to support so I won't support it and I'm out of here". Yes, I know, there's no way to police that other than to send in a support ticket and report this person for doing so. So we start talking about this abuse and see where it goes....
Maybe one of the other event weapon set or L2 Outlaw's rifles will experience the same, and now they have a thread to share it.

But we're recognizing it's an abuse of the game when toons like him show up, conduct themselves in that manner, exhibit an abuse of the game, correct?

If you can't, ask me for a better explanation, but put yourself in my shoes, with a modern armor buff equipped, and a team mate tells you he won't support your team, after he signed up for your team, because you're a woman or a Catholic or Republican, or even worse, owner of a Inno game awarded weapon set, how would you feel?

I can't support you because you have an item I don't?.....

That's the issue I'd like to see addressed and focused upon.
I've got some ideas to if not rectify these occurrences then to at lest minimize them.

Dizzy --

No one is forcing anyone to do anything and this is not a credit card debate.
If you have an issue with a specific event gun owner, you can take it up with them.
And to be clear, you playing adventures or not has nothing to do with the purpose of this thread. It's not the Dizzy plays or doesn't play adventures thread.

I started this thread to discuss game abuse....
Of toons signing in to play adventures with the intent to get it started and then disconnect if they have an event or L2 Outlaws on their team.

Thank You....

 

[DeletedUser35352]

Deiben --

Well my post was mainly because:
Many event gun owners deliberately equip their guns in last seconds before start, how about some rules about that?

A comment on that maybe?

 

[asdf124]

Deiben --

Well my post was mainly because:
Many event gun owners deliberately equip their guns in last seconds before start, how about some rules about that?

A comment on that maybe?

I don't have to change at last second, I can simply abuse a super minor exploit which lets you have a no weapon slot, or any other weapon and simply change after hitting/clicking on join button.

Dei, your point is true, and some peeps just give up and go to saloon if an opposing player had event guns.

I sometimes become mean on njubs who have event rifles by taking everything due to them not having a good reputation.

I once was paired with such player, so, what do I do?

I freaking shoot em in the back cause I am the number 1 jerk

It is pretty hard to do since you'd have to do three things at once since I am using a phone .

I also try giving as much points as possible, I wonder if trying to tie a match should be banned due to being nice or a jerk according to anny since finishing as soon as possible is right thing to do....

 

[DeletedUser35352]

I don't have to change at last second, I can simply abuse a super minor exploit which lets you have a no weapon slot, or any other weapon and simply change after hitting/clicking on join button.

Thanks for clarification. To resume this thread - its ok to abuse a "minor exploit" to deceive players but when the deceived player stops playing a startet adventure he should be punished!?!

I sometimes become mean on njubs who have event rifles by taking everything due to them not having a good reputation.(another anny Hudson bs of finishing the adventure asap)

I also try giving as much points as possible, I wonder if trying to tie a match should be banned due to being nice or a jerk according to anny since finishing as soon as possible is right thing to do....

Yeah right you are just to good... Most players want to play as many advetures as possible in a certain timeframe but no you are a good samaritan and you try to extend an uneven match for how long?

 

[DeletedUser36979]

...
I started this thread to discuss game abuse....
Of toons signing in to play adventures with the intent to get it started and then disconnect if they have an event or L2 Outlaws on their team.

I don't see any kind of abuse in this behaviour, just a toon exercising his right to sabotage the match.
He didn't like your choice of gun, and choose to exit game when it started.

Just like it is your choice which gun to bring, it is his choice when and how to sabotage a game.
He could have chosen to shot at you and the other team members instead. Or he could have helped the enemy by not going to a building.

And honestly, I understand why he decided to "DC" in the match, instead of before. Why should he be penalized for having an opinion? Blame InnoGames for their stupid rules, not the players that sabotage matches, they are just the 0-mots of adventures.

 

[MFRavenhawk]

As an owner of several elite weapon sets, and a regular player of adventures, I understand and sympathize with what Deiben experienced, since I have usually dealt with it myself.....it isn't isolated.

I have lost count of how many adventures I have been in where a player on either team quits in skill selection or in the adventure itself simply for weapon choice. It isn't strictly reserved for the elite weapons or the highly upgraded ones....but also used when some players think another's is too weak (or they have none, besides the auto-euipped stones).

The complaint/argument that the elite weapons are unfair and overpower the game is as old as the adventures themselves, and has been more than adequately addressed by newer basic event sets and upgrading options. The Parade, Ludwig, and the new Raven (Tlingit) sets especially are effective in adventures, as are the Juan and Rowe sets. Of course this doesn't immediately address new players coming in off of Galveston (though most of them are NOT noobs, per se), but in time, each event provides the answers to better gear and weapons.

There is also a matter of skill selections to help resolve it. Select the right skills, play smart, and even the weakest team can separate an 'overpowered wielder' from the rest of his team and force them a loss. Like Deiben, I have lost quite a few adventures because of smart playing by my opponents. I have lost plenty simply by being outmatched by other elite or upgraded weapons, or their owners' upgraded gear. Its the nature of the game, both the main game where forts and duels rule, or the adventures sub-game....you learn, you adapt, you improve, and you continue on playing. Or you complain and quit and do no one any good, especially your own self.

As to the comment about hiding weapons til the last second? I can't say its an exploit or not, but if it is, then Inno needs to address it. Otherwise its going to continue to be used. And in reality there is no difference between a player hiding an elite weapon, and a player equipping none then suddenly having one (or conversely, unequipping it) once the adventure starts. For myself, I usually have my Wild Bill equipped from the start. If the opposing team looks a bit weak, I might drop to the Steampunk or Dragon. If it looks strong, I might opt to use the Tlingit Artifacts instead. And quite simply, sometimes I forget to preset the gear before an adventure, hit the lobby in work or duel gear, and then change to adventuring gear. Most times there is no intentional aspect of deceit, at least not by myself nor by most players who actually take an interest in adventures and the people playing them.....contrasted against those who just go in, constantly complain, insult and belittle everyone from noobs to power players, and act like they are the final authority in knowing how to win there; all while they themselves can't even play them.

 

[asdf124]

Yeah right you are just to good... Most players want to play as many advetures as possible in a certain timeframe but no you are a good samaritan and you try to extend an uneven match for how long?

If you reach 35 points, everyone has a chance to get a loot, even losing via 36 to 35.

As MFR said, specially if you were in blue team, you have higher chances in winning, I once had an adventure with gassko against 3 4K outlaw v1, if 1 of em didn't quit trying, they could have pulled it off.

Trying to tie is harder than winning.

Anzian is kinda right, I only recently got my "overpowered" rifle. But, such problem has always been their but only got pointed out by dei recently.

Yes, I sometimes had left adventures against dei before it began due to reason such as pulling an almost impossible task. Vish had that problem too, trying too hard but not getting result due to a new person in the team.

I guess Dizzy prefers not getting anything and getting it over with instead of a tie for 6,8, or 10 players.

I had been left to being the only player active in an adventure in past by my outlaw rifle v1 more than once.

 

[MFRavenhawk]

Just have to ask one question about actively quitting an adventure after it starts, as opposed to leaving the lobby.

Is it really worth the hassle either quitting in the lobby or in mid-adventure, when in both cases there is still an enforced delay to re-enter one?

 

[DeletedUser35120]

Is it really worth the hassle either quitting in the lobby or in mid-adventure, when in both cases there is still an enforced delay to re-enter one?

I have not played adventures for a very very long time (apart from that one time when I had to for the the west birthday quest), but if the rules have not changed I think it's 3 mins penalty for the first time on leaving from the lobby. The second penalty is 15 mins, and the third, probably is an hr. I don't even know what's the 4th level penalty. Probably 4 hrs or something.

An average adventure lasts 9 minutes or so. So definitely for someone who has already used up the first level penalty and hasn't gone through the cool down period yet, leaving mid-game is a better option. He/she gets to wait for a much lesser time.

Disclaimer:- I do not endorse leaving mid-game, nor do I support it. I'm just saying which way is better logically/theoretically. :3

 

[Sambee]

Please DO NOT mention people's names. You may say what he/she are doing but you may not use names and personally attack how people play adventures.

 

[asdf124]

A friend of mine had opened 35 loot but got 1 outlaw item, did they change anything recently?

 

[DeletedUser33353]

A friend of mine had opened 35 loot but got 1 outlaw item, did they change anything recently?

That seems to be typical of my loot chest drops. Clover or mojo anyone?

 

[asdf124]

That seems to be typical of my loot chest drops. Clover or mojo anyone?

So, loot chests are worthwhile more sold than opened statistically.... Interesting.

 

[DeletedUser33353]

So, loot chests are worthwhile more sold than opened statistically.... Interesting.

That is only MY opinion on them

 

[DeletedUser26820]

Thanks, all for the input, opinion, responses, etc.

My disgruntlement is clearly with an adventure participant that has the option, just like the rest of us, for any reason whatsoever, to resign in the lobby, but instead chooses NOT to, and proceeds an adventure to start to intentionally sabotage a team.

It sounds like most of us would rather that toon withdraw in the lobby, take his initial 3 minute penalty, and the rest of us wait another 4-5 minutes for another adventure to start, even providing participants for this saboteur to join another one.

To me, that's a better option than to have already waited 4 minutes for an adventure to start, it start, and have zero chance of maximizing reward from it because a team mate intentionally disconnects. I understand that's his prerogative or that he plays in an earthquake zone. But this is when we're getting into wasting the time investment of ALL OTHER PARTICIPANTS that play adventures with an opportunity to maximize reward for the time invested relative to the opportunity, whether it be a daily quest or task, getting additional vp's towards another loot chest, etc.

So.... what are some work-arounds to prevent it?

I'll hold for now as they'd only be from a one-world, level 150, event set weapon owning, 1001+ adventure playing toon.

Nothing's perfect, but there's few things worse than wasted time....

Respectfully,

Just have to ask one question about actively quitting an adventure after it starts, as opposed to leaving the lobby.

Is it really worth the hassle either quitting in the lobby or in mid-adventure, when in both cases there is still an enforced delay to re-enter one?

This is a most relative question.....

The saboteur won't quit in the lobby.
He's imposed a 3-minute time penalty and that's one less adventure he can wreck.
THERE IS NO REWARD TO HIM FOR WHAT HE'S INTENTIONALLY TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH. By disconnecting/quitting after it starts, he's essentially imposed a 10-12-15 minute time penalty on his teammates, his reward for imposing upon team mates, which is greater than the 3 minute cool down he'd get in the lobby for resigning there, for his team mates participating, being there, trying, investing time, the gear they have equipped, etc.

 

[foscock]

I agree, it's a silly reason to disconnect and I would be annoyed, but I don't see how it could be policed.