The Peacful Muslim Religion

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DeletedUser

maybe you could explain Matthew 5:17 then?

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill."

Jesus fulfilled it. HE was the final sacrifice. He was what the law pointed to. Note that the pharisees condemned Jesus of breaking the law many times.

. . . you really want me to completely ignore the blatant misrepresentation of the Qur'an by spider, and instead focus on correct representation of the Bible . . .

I'm glad that you took the time to write your post. I liked it. (No sarcasm here, I'm truly complementing you.)

Catholic Church: "The world is flat, therefore boats will fall off the edge of the Earth."
Scholar: "No, the world is not flat, and here's the evidence to support my claim"
Catholic Church: "Don't go too far or you'll fall of the edge of the Earth!"

I like this example. (Another sincere compliment.)

At the time of the crusades it was pretty mich the only branch.

If you mean to say that the Roman and Orthodox Catholic Churches were the only sects of Christianity at the time, you are sorely uneducated.
 

DeletedUser

NO, you are wrong, most muslims have a basic ideas on the west.
Whoever repped me with this, here:
Muslims may have a basic idea, does this mean that they're not fairly isolated? That's like me being in the year 100, and my brother traveled to some faraway place, and came back and told me of their new swords; is my society still isolated? Perhaps. They know of our TVs, how we 'disrespect' women, etc. But review Muslim population statistics, majority of the places with tons of Muslims will be in Northern-Africa, and the Middle-East. Not exactly the most forward countries concerning technology.

Plus, compared to other societies/religions; Muslims have been isolated. Once again, Christians with the Crusades, Christians occupying the Americas, etc. Muslims have battled against Christians, occupied some European countries, and were repelled back to their homeland.

The point I'm trying to make overall is, Islam compared to other religions is very young, and compared to other religions; Islam hasn't nearly the same amount of chances to assimilate new ideas, nor to 're-invent' itself.
 
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DeletedUser

If you mean to say that the Roman and Orthodox Catholic Churches were the only sects of Christianity at the time, you are sorely uneducated.

Did I say they were the only sects?
Hardly.
Where they the dominating ones?
Yes.

Where other sects tolerated?
No, they were guilty of hersey.

See where this is going?
 

DeletedUser

Yes, Catholicism was evil. (My opinion is that it still is.)

However, that might be a parallel to our discussion here . . .
 

DeletedUser

Just to jump in here, Xcentric has a point. In the nations where Islam is prevalent in the populations, the countries are not well developed, the governments are corrupt or non-existent, and education is, for the most part, lacking. It is not reasonable to make a sweeping assumption about a nation's people, based on religion, when it is far more the impact of a society & culture. For example, the brutal events of Croatia/Serbia, are you going to claim they're Muslims? Of course not...

Let's be honest about something here: The Judeo-Islamic-Christian religions are based on the "oppressed" motif. All three are appealing to societies/groups that are in some way oppressed. Judeo-Christianity has slowly, through centuries, been converted to a more accepted, middle-upper class status, as kings and conquerors adopted useful liturgy to sway its people into complacent servitude (Christianity moreso than Judaism). Islam, on the other hand, has remained popular amongst the oppressed, and has therefore adhered to more of the earlier, less civil, utilities for management of societies/war.

But it would be a mistake, as is demonstrated by spider's continued non-secular examination of non-secular and secular societies alike, to view these issues from a limited perspective. There are almost 1.5 million Muslims in the United States, the vast majority of which are law-abiding citizens respectful not only of the laws, but of the nation as a whole. If you close your eyes to this fact, and point across the oceans yelling, "Different! Different!," you're not demonstrating yourself to be informed, but prejudiced... and not of a religion, but of a culture.
 

DeletedUser

aaaaaaaand yet AGIAN you blindly insult me while completely misunderstanding my point (whether intentionaly or unententionaly)

your so determined to prove me wrong that you completely misrepresent what im saying and dont bother to read or observe what im saying except jsut enuff to make make a half cocked fasle attack on my statements
this isnt a discusion as you dont want to discuss you only want to mock my statements and ignore anything presented to you
 

DeletedUser

I didn't ignore anything you presented. I merely proved you wrong, false, misleading, misguided, demonstrating tunnel-vision, lacking perspective, devoid of insight, unable to comprehend things beyond your puritanical notions.

No insult there, just stating observable facts.
 

DeletedUser

I didn't ignore anything you presented. I merely proved you wrong, false, misleading, misguided, demonstrating tunnel-vision, lacking perspective, devoid of insight, unable to comprehend things beyond your puritanical notions.

No insult there, just stating observable facts.


rofl you proved nothign but your inability to listen to anyones views other than your own agian jsut an observation
 

DeletedUser

Alright spider, why don't you make a clear statement of exactly what it is you think you're trying to say here. You see, because I was pretty dang sure I understood it when I corrected your grossly misrepresented Qur'an scriptures (which you never rebutted, nor responded to in any way whatsoever).

Later, in response to some of the other comments, you then stated that Muslims do exactly what you stated in those scriptures you distorted, thereby building upon a false premise, which I had preemptively responded by pointing out the Catholic Church/Scholar dialog as an example of just this sort of fallacy, thus demonstrating not merely how well I understood where you were going to be coming from, but just how flawed are your perceptions.

Yet later, I thought I was dead-on when I responded to your railings on about Muslims being violent by pointing out your failure to distinguish between religion and culture.

So, please, by all means, do tell us -- where is it that I'm "misunderstanding?" What "point" is it that I somehow failed to grasp? By all means, enlighten me.
 

DeletedUser

Oh my...well...if not anything else,I see alot of quoting of "sacred books"and other crap...
So,what's really the point of this topic?The first post is quoting of some lines in the Qu'ran(sorry if I mispelled this,I'm not very religious)or are we disscusing here about is Christianity evil?Or are we disscusing about whether Muslim religion is violent and the other way around?Geeze..well,I can agree with Hell on his posts,because("And I hate to say it,but it's probably me"Sting)he is right.I really couldn't get to the bottom of this topic and try to connect all of that to the original reason it was opened in the first place.So,I may am stupid,but please,enlighten both of us,Hell and meh.:)
 

DeletedUser

With the talk about the crusades, I heard from somewhere (I have forgotten the source and I do not have the time to look it up right now), that the first crusades were a response to Islamist Jihads around the time that threatened Christianity. Anyone know if thats right ot not?

Also with you people saying how Catholicism created the crusades and not Christianity, if I'm correct, except for the Othordox split, the other splits/schisms did not happen until hundreds of years after the crusades. And even the Orthodox crusade was only about 40ish years prior to the crusades.

And Catholics are Christians too, don't forget that.

Edit: After digging around a bit, I basically want to say what John said:

At the time of the crusades it was pretty mich the only branch.
Exception ofcourse the orthodox church.
 
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DeletedUser

Oh my...well...if not anything else,I see alot of quoting of "sacred books"and other crap...
So,what's really the point of this topic?The first post is quoting of some lines in the Qu'ran(sorry if I mispelled this,I'm not very religious)or are we disscusing here about is Christianity evil?Or are we disscusing about whether Muslim religion is violent and the other way around?Geeze..well,I can agree with Hell on his posts,because("And I hate to say it,but it's probably me"Sting)he is right.I really couldn't get to the bottom of this topic and try to connect all of that to the original reason it was opened in the first place.So,I may am stupid,but please,enlighten both of us,Hell and meh.:)


helstrom took my post in another topic and some replies to it and turned it into its own thread when in no way was it set up as such and it led to a rather halfassed debate thread without a real point
 

DeletedUser

With the talk about the crusades, I heard from somewhere (I have forgotten the source and I do not have the time to look it up right now), that the first crusades were a response to Islamist Jihads around the time that threatened Christianity. Anyone know if thats right ot not?

A bit of an application of common sense just might help you here.

Here's a clue: The crusades started from Europe. Jerusalem is in the Middle East.

Who invaded what?
 

DeletedUser

Let's be honest about something here: The Judeo-Islamic-Christian religions are based on the "oppressed" motif. All three are appealing to societies/groups that are in some way oppressed. Judeo-Christianity has slowly, through centuries, been converted to a more accepted, middle-upper class status, as kings and conquerors adopted useful liturgy to sway its people into complacent servitude (Christianity moreso than Judaism). Islam, on the other hand, has remained popular amongst the oppressed, and has therefore adhered to more of the earlier, less civil, utilities for management of societies/war.

I agree, I won't argue that ALL of those religions had rough beginnings; which is why they appeal to the common man.

-Christianity, with it's persecutions, such as Jesus' crucifixion, and any of the public figures in the Bible who were discriminated upon.

-Judaism/Christianity, with the whole slaves of Egypt, and the hike to the Promised Land.

-Islam, which had started in an economically rough area, and had to fight to gain any ground in this world.
 

DeletedUser

I agree, I won't argue that ALL of those religions had rough beginnings; which is why they appeal to the common man.

-Christianity, with it's persecutions, such as Jesus' crucifixion, and any of the public figures in the Bible who were discriminated upon.

-Judaism/Christianity, with the whole slaves of Egypt, and the hike to the Promised Land.

-Islam, which had started in an economically rough area, and had to fight to gain any ground in this world.


theoreticly islam is an offshoot of christianity if u want to get technical
it all dates back to the story of abraham int eh bible and on of his 2 sons founded hte nation of islam and hte other chrsitianity
 

DeletedUser

Technically, Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism. So what's your point?

helstrom took my post in another topic and some replies to it and turned it into its own thread when in no way was it set up as such and it led to a rather halfassed debate thread without a real point

Oh right, I pulled your hatemongering falsified series of Qur'an scriptures and made a new thread to discuss this issue without disrupting another thread's discussion and so, basically, this thread has no point other than to propagate hate and foster lies, whilst before it served to disrupt and derail another discussion.

Well thank you once again for demonstrating just what it is you represent.
 

DeletedUser

A bit of an application of common sense just might help you here.

Here's a clue: The crusades started from Europe. Jerusalem is in the Middle East.

Who invaded what?

Im not discussing where it occured but what started it.
 

DeletedUser

How about starting with a quick look at wikipedia?

The Crusades originally had the goal of recapturing Jerusalem and the Holy Land from Muslim rule and were launched in response to a call from the Christian Byzantine Empire for help against the expansion of the Muslim Seljuk Turks into Anatolia. The term is also used to describe contemporaneous and subsequent campaigns conducted through to the 16th century in territories outside the Levant[3] usually against pagans, heretics, and peoples under the ban of excommunication[4] for a mixture of religious, economic, and political reasons.[5]

That fits nicely with the history books I've been reading.
 

DeletedUser

With the talk about the crusades, I heard from somewhere (I have forgotten the source and I do not have the time to look it up right now), that the first crusades were a response to Islamist Jihads around the time that threatened Christianity. Anyone know if thats right ot not?

A bit of an application of common sense just might help you here.

Here's a clue: The crusades started from Europe. Jerusalem is in the Middle East.

Who invaded what?

The Moors invaded Spain in 711. The first crusade was in 1095. A bit of an application of history would help you understand his question.

Also with you people saying how Catholicism created the crusades and not Christianity, if I'm correct, except for the Othordox split, the other splits/schisms did not happen until hundreds of years after the crusades.

Oh My Goodness

I cannot believe how ignorant of medieval history you guys are!
 

DeletedUser

Oh My Goodness

I cannot believe how ignorant of medieval history you guys are!
Yup, that's pretty much what I keep thinking every day when I read most of this drivel,
and I know for a fact there is so much I will never know.

I don't know too much about the Moors for instance.
Was their conquest and expansion politcally motivated, or was it done to spread Islam to every corner of the world?

Hell, The Ottoman Empire did their best to get deep into Europe, and Europe in turn has pushed east.

Control of trade-routes, commerce, power, and resources.
Those are the motivation for many a war.
 
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