Discussion Topic: Dueller Class Bonuses

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Diggo11

Diggo11

Well-Known Member
For years duellers have roamed the plains, lacking the necessary skills to defeat the great soldiers. But alas, the time has almost come for the dueller to get new bonuses, so they can arise and beat the crap out of those stupid n00bs.

This is not a promise, however the developers are considering some changes to the dueller class bonuses, for an unscheduled update. I am hoping the new bonuses will make the dueller more favourable than the soldier for the majority of duellers to balance out the fact soldiers are the superior class for fort battles.

Below is a list of possible bonuses. It is most likely three of these, perhaps including some player additions if we receive any, will be selected for the new bonuses. (In addition to the the dueller's fort battle bonus, of course.)

Duel Radius - a dueller can conduct duels from long range, without having to be present at the exact location of the defender. The maximum radius of this bonus is fifteen minutes travel time, or thirty with premium.

Duel Stats - in the planned "duel finder", the clothes of your opponent would be listed in a mouseover. [Convenience advantage.]

Item Bonus - all equipped gear is 10% more effective during duels.

Cash Bonus - 25% extra money is taken when you win a duel.

Motivation Bonus - duelling motivation rises 33% faster than normal.

Health Regen - players instantly receive 12.5% of lost health points after a duel.

The exact bonuses selected will mostly depend on how this would balance the classes, how easy this would be to develop and feedback we receive. If anyone has any opinions or advice to offer, you may provide it here.

And remember - this is an insight into our planning stage. It is not a guarantee, it is not scheduled, and it will not necessarily ever happen.
 
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Slygoxx

Slygoxx

Well-Known Member
The item bonus is way overpowered in my opinion. So that gets a big no from me.

The duel radius bonus sounds nice, as does the motivation bonus. It means that you can do more duels and possibly faster, and rise in power faster than soldiers.

The cash bonus is not really a bonus, it takes up a slot for a better one. Normally you don't get much money in a duel (unless you are lucky), because most people bank their money often.
If it would apply to bounties as well as money received in a duel though, it would be nice. Bounties are often pretty high, and are a nice source of income for any dueler and a bonus on that is most welcome.

The duel stats bonus is just for lazy people, I don't consider it a real bonus.

I might propose a bonus myself later ;)
 

DeletedUser

First of all, I think I'm going to cry, tears of joy are streaming from my eyes as I'm reading this...

I've been waiting for better bonuses for my w2 dueler since 2008... I chose a dueler when I was a newbie and didn't know any better.

Anyway, here are my thoughts...

Diggo11 said:
Duel Radius - a dueller can conduct duels from long range, without having to be present at the exact location of the defender. The maximum radius of this bonus is fifteen minutes travel time, or thirty with premium.
Click to expand...

YES... I like this bonus... as a dueler you want to duel more, so less travel time equals more dueling!

Diggo11 said:
Duel Stats - in the planned "duel finder", the clothes of your opponent would be listed in a mouseover. [Convenience advantage.]
Click to expand...

NO... unless I'm reading this wrong, all you're getting is a quick glance at what a player is wearing??? BIG NO!!! That's a waste of a bonus in my opinion.

Diggo11 said:
Item Bonus - all equipped gear is 10% more effective during duels.
Click to expand...

YES... I like this... at first I thought 10% was too low, but I went back and did 'quick' math to figure out how many SP you would get with ranged dueling gear with the best equipment... I was surprised you would get 11 extra SP offensively! So I think that's a pretty good advantage without being overpowering (like the soldier class:p)

Diggo11 said:
Cash Bonus - 25% extra money is taken when you win a duel.
Click to expand...

NO... no one really cares about the extra cash in a duel (except for NO mot duelers). if you win a duel with $300 you get an extra $75... still better than $30 with the 10%, but if we only get 3 bonuses (not including fort char bonuses) I'd rather have a better bonus than that.

Diggo11 said:
Motivation Bonus - duelling motivation rises 33% faster than normal.
Click to expand...

YES... I like this :D If you are a dueler it only makes sense that you should be at the top of the dueling rankings in the world! So you want your mot to rise faster!

=================================

Latigo's picks are....

Duel Radius
Item Bonus
Motivation Bonus
 

DeletedUser

IMO put only item bonus and you need nothing else. All other 4 things look nice, but wouldn't be that much useful as this one. Especially the money bonus... Who needs that anyway?
 

DeletedUser

If you were going to do a cash bonus I think it would make more sense to do +25% extra money & bounty when you win duel.

Gear bonus and dueling radius sound like good but not overpowered bonuses.
 

DeletedUser22575

Diggo11 said:
For years duellers have roamed the plains, lacking the necessary skills to defeat the great soldiers. But alas, the time has almost come for the dueller to get new bonuses, so they can arise and beat the crap out of those stupid n00bs.

This is not a promise, however the developers are considering some changes to the dueller class bonuses, for an unscheduled update. I am hoping the new bonuses will make the dueller more favourable than the soldier for the majority of duellers to balance out the fact soldiers are the superior class for fort battles.

Below is a list of possible bonuses. It is most likely three of these, perhaps including some player additions if we receive any, will be selected for the new bonuses. (In addition to the the dueller's fort battle bonus, of course.)

Duel Radius - a dueller can conduct duels from long range, without having to be present at the exact location of the defender. The maximum radius of this bonus is fifteen minutes travel time, or thirty with premium.

Duel Stats - in the planned "duel finder", the clothes of your opponent would be listed in a mouseover. [Convenience advantage.]

Item Bonus - all equipped gear is 10% more effective during duels.

Cash Bonus - 25% extra money is taken when you win a duel.

Motivation Bonus - duelling motivation rises 33% faster than normal.

The exact bonuses selected will mostly depend on how this would balance the classes, how easy this would be to develop and feedback we receive. If anyone has any opinions or advice to offer, you may provide it here.

And remember - this is an insight into our planning stage. It is not a guarantee, it is not scheduled, and it will not necessarily ever happen.
Click to expand...

We just went to spot dueling with 1.29. And now a change to that is being discussed for one class :laugh:

How typical.
 

DeletedUser9470

Diggo11 said:
Duel Radius - a dueller can conduct duels from long range, without having to be present at the exact location of the defender. The maximum radius of this bonus is fifteen minutes travel time, or thirty with premium.[/ quote]
this is ok.

Diggo11 said:
Duel Stats - in the planned "duel finder", the clothes of your opponent would be listed in a mouseover. [Convenience advantage.]
Click to expand...
this is ok

Diggo11 said:
Item Bonus - all equipped gear is 10% more effective during duels.
Click to expand...
This is not ok!
since when is a dueller more skilful than a soldier? there were a couple who were but the other millions of dueller wannabes were shot.
if duellers were better than soldiers i dont think any country would employ a professional army. i didnt see jesse james going to irak...

Diggo11 said:
Cash Bonus - 25% extra money is taken when you win a duel.
Click to expand...
this is ok

Diggo11 said:
Motivation Bonus - duelling motivation rises 33% faster than normal.
Click to expand...
this is ok

so to summarise:
most is acceptable apart from the SP bonuses.
if this isn't included then you get a yes from me.
if not its a big NO!

i would suggest if the classes are going to be rearranged then everyone should be given the opportunity to change class.

i chose to be a soldier for a reason, if you take that reason away there is no point in playing this game any further.
Click to expand...
 

DeletedUser22575

-Neo- said:
Diggo11 said:
Duel Radius - a dueller can conduct duels from long range, without having to be present at the exact location of the defender. The maximum radius of this bonus is fifteen minutes travel time, or thirty with premium.[/ quote]
this is ok.


this is ok


This is not ok!
since when is a dueller more skilful than a soldier? there were a couple who were but the other millions of dueller wannabes were shot.
if duellers were better than soldiers i dont think any country would employ a professional army. i didnt see jesse james going to irak...


this is ok


this is ok

so to summarise:
most is acceptable apart from the SP bonuses.
if this isn't included then you get a yes from me.
if not its a big NO!

i would suggest if the classes are going to be rearranged then everyone should be given the opportunity to change class.

i chose to be a soldier for a reason, if you take that reason away there is no point in playing this game any further.
Click to expand...

Well this is going to get a big NO from me for the same reasons Neo...

Diggo11;530529[B said:
Duel Radius[/B] - a dueller can conduct duels from long range, without having to be present at the exact location of the defender. The maximum radius of this bonus is fifteen minutes travel time, or thirty with premium.[/I]
Click to expand...

Duelers were never anymore skillful than soldiers, in fact the western dueler was more myth than anything. In fact most of those referred to as duelers were in fact former cival war soldiers.

So there is no way they are going to the gun shop, buy a weapon and then be able to shoot either 15 to 30 minutes further away with it than a soldier.

Not only that, players constantly complained about saloon dueling being unrealistic and camping.

This radius dueling brings back not only this "unrealistic" aspect, but to a limited degree it is nothing but saloon dueling.
Click to expand...
 

DeletedUser

I agree with TJ about duelers being a lot about myth ....so why not just give Duelers the same appearance advantage as soldiers get for tactics advantage? +50%? That puts duelers and soldiers closer without really messing with much.
 

DeletedUser22575

Corganer said:
I agree with TJ about duelers being a lot about myth ....so why not just give Duelers the same appearance advantage as soldiers get for tactics advantage? +50%? That puts duelers and soldiers closer without really messing with much.
Click to expand...

I agree.

Realistically none of the proposed changes above are going to help the Dueler class much.

If there is going to be a real and significant attempt to improve the Dueler Class it either has to be something like the app bonus as Corganer described..

or..

give them something like a 3 AP dex bonus right from the start.

anything other than something that will offer them some significant equality to the soldier class without nerfing the soldier class which would be unacceptable is a waste of time.
 

DeletedUser

soldiers still have the tactics advantage, and the lower level for weapons advantage. they attempt to actually make playing a dueler worthwhile and people complain

why not give duelers an appearance bonus similar to the soldiers tactics to balance it out a little

the only decent bonus a dueler has now is the "chance" for the critical hit in fort battles, the speed bonus if raised would be ok, but in new worlds it doesnt mean much no with nuggets speeding the travel

the 15 minute dueling radius is surprising to me, its almost as if inno realized the new dueling had more of an impact then expected and are admitting to a mistake...but only slightly



edit: lol i guess i type too slow....see buddy above mentioned the same for the app bonus.

and also...dueling as it is played out in this game is more of a hollywood invetion. most of the "gunfights" that happened werent 2 men squaring off, more often than not someone was shot in the back, or killed while too drunk to see straight....so yeah lot of it is myth
 
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DeletedUser9470

Corganer said:
I agree with TJ about duelers being a lot about myth ....so why not just give Duelers the same appearance advantage as soldiers get for tactics advantage? +50%? That puts duelers and soldiers closer without really messing with much.
Click to expand...

im in two minds about this:
im for cos all that duellers wanted was to be rich and famous and good looking for the girlies, but then they already have the best looking character icons...
im against cos duellers weren't very skilful.

i dont think its a good idea from innos point of view either because it would show a lack of consistency between appearance and tactics skills.

but i like the idea, giving them something that suits them.
horseback riding, motivation going up faster, more money... fine!
 

DeletedUser

just as long as the soldier doesnt have anything to worry about? thats pretty much what you are saying?

why would a dueler have better horseback riding skills than a soldier?
 

DeletedUser

Slygoxx said:
The item bonus is way overpowered in my opinion. So that gets a big no from me.

The duel radius bonus sounds nice, as does the motivation bonus. It means that you can do more duels and possibly faster, and rise in power faster than soldiers.

The cash bonus is not really a bonus, it takes up a slot for a better one. Normally you don't get much money in a duel (unless you are lucky), because most people bank their money often.
If it would apply to bounties as well as money received in a duel though, it would be nice. Bounties are often pretty high, and are a nice source of income for any dueler and a bonus on that is most welcome.

The duel stats bonus is just for lazy people, I don't consider it a real bonus.

I might propose a bonus myself later ;)
Click to expand...
I agree with this. Since update 1.29 duellers have a (little) bonus to soldiers, but they are not the best for duelling. Maybe one extra bonus, but no 3 or 4.
 

DeletedUser9470

ratatatPat said:
just as long as the soldier doesnt have anything to worry about? thats pretty much what you are saying?

why would a dueler have better horseback riding skills than a soldier?
Click to expand...

because all they are good at is running away...
from bank robberys
from bar brawls
from all kinds of mischief...

the whole point of picking the dueller class is that you are picking the bad guy.

in terms of duelling ranking:
civilians < duellers < soldiers

you cannot give duellers same advantages let alone more advantages than soldiers in duels, as they never were up to army standards, and no one can disagree with this.

so all in all duellers should get some kind of bonus to give incentive to people to play this character.

ok, i have an idea. its been said before but not in this context:

as duellers are bad people then they should have a perc that makes them bad.
but this cannot make them better at duelling than soldiers.

so what about a proper "stealing" bonus?
if a dueller wins a duel he steals 50% of all the cash from his opponent and 100% with premium?

just need the new bonus to make sense, thats all.
:)
 

DeletedUser

Sorry neo but I disagree.

It should be like this:
In forts: civilians < duelers < soldiers
In duels: civilians < soldiers < duelers
In jobs: soldiers < duelers < civilians

However, the game is designed in a way that currently soldiers pwn all three areas. That should change - ASAP.

And I agree with what you've said about permanent class... There has to be an option to change your class.
 

DeletedUser9470

thing is if you want the game to be close to reality then soldiers pwn in duels, forts and jobs.

JoxerTM said:
Sorry neo but I disagree.
It should be like this:
In duels: civilians < soldiers < duelers
Click to expand...
i think here you are making up a completely new character that never existed in the west.
in which case, can we have new characters like samurai, jedi or aliens?
 
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DeletedUser

Soldiers pwn in jobs in reality? Never happened and never gonna happen.

But aliens would be nice, thanks! Can't wait.
 
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