DeletedUser
For those of you who haven't heard about this, there's an e-petition to privatise Thatcher's funeral. I've signed it. Who else will? Do you think its a good idea? Should taxpayers fund Thatcher's funeral?
DeletedUser
NO!
I don't think the tax paying public should foot the bill for what is a basic distraction from the mess that is her legacy, (That's all it is just like the oylimpics, a distraction)
We have hard times ahead, so they keep telling us due to cuts in public spending, rises in fuel, heating and food costs but hey, out of the blue we can spend £6-10 million on a dead person???!!
don't get me wrong it seems since her time in office. (US friendly)
Every party that has been in power since (and POWER being the only reason they want to be there) has NO idea how to fix or even deal with the problems caused by said "Baroness"
Now there's another thing! lmao Baroness??
Her son Mark Thatcher gets a knighthood (Sir) by default even though he is a convicted criminal!!?? Really?
To me that is Rubbish
For the last 2 years i have driven a London bus through the center of London and seen with my own eyes what they say about HER and the don't give a rats about the poor.
you only have to look at the amount of soup kitchens listed below, be they static or moblie to see where i am coming from
(go walk The Strand by Charing Cross station on a saturday morning early about 4-5am and you will see a sight that will amaze but also enlighten your heart)
http://www.thepavement.org.uk/services.php?facility=&service=13&city=1
At the time they came to power yes the unions of the time had and were getting more powerful but the Iron Lady as they called her and her party went to War with them.
For any who would oppose them shall be cast aside...
but as they were doing so they also needed a distraction, oh they found one in a little island that needed a war so to sidetrack the general public at the time.. perfect!
Anyway it's the past and it should stay there.. they messed it up and now we need to fix it! for us and our kids.. but that won't happen unless big changes come about, but do you think any of the parties are going to let that happen? (N Korea yeah ok)
back on topic
you wanna spend millions sticking a dead bird in the ground? then i say her familiy should pay for it, (mine would have to) want it on telly? (as it will be) then they pay that too
my Tv licence fee should not pay for that either!!
Anyway rant over, as nothing i will/can do in the time i have left wouldnt change Jack
I don't think the tax paying public should foot the bill for what is a basic distraction from the mess that is her legacy, (That's all it is just like the oylimpics, a distraction)
We have hard times ahead, so they keep telling us due to cuts in public spending, rises in fuel, heating and food costs but hey, out of the blue we can spend £6-10 million on a dead person???!!
don't get me wrong it seems since her time in office. (US friendly)
Every party that has been in power since (and POWER being the only reason they want to be there) has NO idea how to fix or even deal with the problems caused by said "Baroness"
Now there's another thing! lmao Baroness??
Her son Mark Thatcher gets a knighthood (Sir) by default even though he is a convicted criminal!!?? Really?
To me that is Rubbish
For the last 2 years i have driven a London bus through the center of London and seen with my own eyes what they say about HER and the don't give a rats about the poor.
you only have to look at the amount of soup kitchens listed below, be they static or moblie to see where i am coming from
(go walk The Strand by Charing Cross station on a saturday morning early about 4-5am and you will see a sight that will amaze but also enlighten your heart)
http://www.thepavement.org.uk/services.php?facility=&service=13&city=1
At the time they came to power yes the unions of the time had and were getting more powerful but the Iron Lady as they called her and her party went to War with them.
For any who would oppose them shall be cast aside...
but as they were doing so they also needed a distraction, oh they found one in a little island that needed a war so to sidetrack the general public at the time.. perfect!
Anyway it's the past and it should stay there.. they messed it up and now we need to fix it! for us and our kids.. but that won't happen unless big changes come about, but do you think any of the parties are going to let that happen? (N Korea yeah ok)
back on topic
you wanna spend millions sticking a dead bird in the ground? then i say her familiy should pay for it, (mine would have to) want it on telly? (as it will be) then they pay that too
my Tv licence fee should not pay for that either!!
Anyway rant over, as nothing i will/can do in the time i have left wouldnt change Jack
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DeletedUser16008
In a word, NO
Enshrine her in the north of England or Wales, make a tourist attraction out of her forever more and bring in some cash and jobs to the areas she decimated with her policies.
Its not so much what she did re closing the pits and finishing off the steel industry and Unions as what she didnt do to revive those areas with any sort of investment that to this very day means they have never recovered. Those policies with no future plans destroyed hundreds of thousands of families way of life and those communities.
Thankfully the old witch sealed her own fate by bringing in something called the poll tax which expected every person in the UK residing in a property pay an annual tax on it.... yup thats right the more people that lived in a house the more that place would bring in tax.
An average 3 bedroom place with say 4 adults in the house would change from say £1,000 annual house tax of about £250 per person to £1,000 EACH, bringing in a revenue of 4k instead of the original 1K
Some paid it and many others completely refused to :whistle:.
Summary below.
the Conservative Party's winning 1987 general election manifesto, the charge, which replaced the old rates system, was levied on individuals rather than properties. It was supposed to increase accountability. But its introduction met with fierce resistance among some sections of the public. The country rioted and the old witch was done for...
The 1990 London Protest march that turned London's Trafalgar Square, a top tourism spot, into a battleground between police and protesters came to be seen by many as the fatal blow for the government's community charge.
The rioting in central London on 31 March, 1990, was not the first demonstration against the so-called poll tax to end in violence. In the weeks beforehand a number of protests around the country had culminated in violent skirmishes. :shootout:
By the end of the year, Thatcher had been forced to step down and the poll tax was scrapped :donkey:
If you did'nt live through it you'll never understand why literally half the UK hates her guts and would probably pay a few quid to go and literally spit on her grave.
Luckily I don't own a TV so I won't have to put up with the pervese media circus but maybe ill watch a few spitting image episodes and have a good old laugh at her once more for old times sake.
This is how half the country saw her
This is how the other half saw her
Enshrine her in the north of England or Wales, make a tourist attraction out of her forever more and bring in some cash and jobs to the areas she decimated with her policies.
Its not so much what she did re closing the pits and finishing off the steel industry and Unions as what she didnt do to revive those areas with any sort of investment that to this very day means they have never recovered. Those policies with no future plans destroyed hundreds of thousands of families way of life and those communities.
Thankfully the old witch sealed her own fate by bringing in something called the poll tax which expected every person in the UK residing in a property pay an annual tax on it.... yup thats right the more people that lived in a house the more that place would bring in tax.
An average 3 bedroom place with say 4 adults in the house would change from say £1,000 annual house tax of about £250 per person to £1,000 EACH, bringing in a revenue of 4k instead of the original 1K
Some paid it and many others completely refused to :whistle:.
Summary below.
the Conservative Party's winning 1987 general election manifesto, the charge, which replaced the old rates system, was levied on individuals rather than properties. It was supposed to increase accountability. But its introduction met with fierce resistance among some sections of the public. The country rioted and the old witch was done for...
The 1990 London Protest march that turned London's Trafalgar Square, a top tourism spot, into a battleground between police and protesters came to be seen by many as the fatal blow for the government's community charge.
The rioting in central London on 31 March, 1990, was not the first demonstration against the so-called poll tax to end in violence. In the weeks beforehand a number of protests around the country had culminated in violent skirmishes. :shootout:
By the end of the year, Thatcher had been forced to step down and the poll tax was scrapped :donkey:
If you did'nt live through it you'll never understand why literally half the UK hates her guts and would probably pay a few quid to go and literally spit on her grave.
Luckily I don't own a TV so I won't have to put up with the pervese media circus but maybe ill watch a few spitting image episodes and have a good old laugh at her once more for old times sake.
This is how half the country saw her
This is how the other half saw her
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DeletedUser
Hehe, very good points gentlemen. You should be glad you don't own a TV Victor, the media's been all too happy to follow the Tory government's lead and shower her in endless praise.
As to what to do with her body...I think we should use her corpse to appease the Argentinians.
As to what to do with her body...I think we should use her corpse to appease the Argentinians.
Harsha..
Well-Known Member
Seeing the violent reactions that lady brings out in you guys, i would say she deserves that funeral
Normal people get buried normally, people who were different - loved, or hated get that extra-special sendoff, they all deserve it - without them, the world would be a lot less colourful as it is today. Any evil brings out the same amount of good somewhere in the world
Normal people get buried normally, people who were different - loved, or hated get that extra-special sendoff, they all deserve it - without them, the world would be a lot less colourful as it is today. Any evil brings out the same amount of good somewhere in the world
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DeletedUser16008
As long as the taxpayers dosn't foot the bill and her family or private admirera do i really dont care... however if it turns out its on the state then ill be getting my money back one way or another
DeletedUser
Can't we donate her to that German artist guy that plasticises corpses, then shove her up somewhere north of the Home Counties as a tourist attraction? Then at least she would finally be contributing something to the poorer regions of this country, most of which are still struggling to recover from the burden of greed she engendered in a generation.
1979 was the first time I was old enough to vote. Bitter? Hell yeah!
1979 was the first time I was old enough to vote. Bitter? Hell yeah!
DeletedUser15057
A legacy to Thatcher as witnessed recently at a cricket match here in NZ - an Englishman resident in NZ wearing a tee shirt with the words written on it saying
"I'll fight for England...."
"I'll die for England...."
"...but I just cant live there!!"
"I'll fight for England...."
"I'll die for England...."
"...but I just cant live there!!"
DeletedUser16008
The last time “Ding Dong the Witch is Dead” was in heavy rotation, the Packard was a hot automobile and Europe was tumbling into war.
But the “Wizard of Oz” tune is experiencing a rebirth in the U.K. this week thanks to the death of Margaret Thatcher.
Anti-Thatcher protesters celebrating the former Prime Minister’s demise have been buying the ditty in record numbers in an effort to propel it to the top of the British pop charts.
That means the song has a shot at being played on BBC Radio 1’s weekly chart-topping-singles show this Sunday, according to the company that compiles the list for the BBC. By Thursday, the song had moved up to No. 4 on the charts, having sold more than 20,000 copies, according to the Official Charts Company.
Britain’s right-leaning, pro-Thatcher newspapers have slammed the campaigns and called on the BBC not to play the song this Sunday.It could be the most inappropriate and gratuitously offensive number one hit single ever.
A spokeswoman for BBC Radio 1 declined to comment on the delicate politics at play, saying the station “will make a decision about playing it when the final chart positions are clear” on Sunday.
Ding Dong! The Witch Is Dead has failed to reach the number one spot in the music charts this week.
The Wizard of Oz song, which has been at the centre of an online campaign by opponents of Baroness Thatcher, reached number two after selling 52,605 copies.
Itll get there next week I hope and we shall see if the BBC ( British Brainwashing Coorporation ) plays it or not, right now they wont touch it.... over a dead old hag ... unbelievable but expected.
Yea I paid up just to help it get there, i will laugh my socks off if it makes it....
Gotta love our establishments bais sometimes ................
STICK IT TO THE MAN and tell it like it is I say.
But the “Wizard of Oz” tune is experiencing a rebirth in the U.K. this week thanks to the death of Margaret Thatcher.
Anti-Thatcher protesters celebrating the former Prime Minister’s demise have been buying the ditty in record numbers in an effort to propel it to the top of the British pop charts.
That means the song has a shot at being played on BBC Radio 1’s weekly chart-topping-singles show this Sunday, according to the company that compiles the list for the BBC. By Thursday, the song had moved up to No. 4 on the charts, having sold more than 20,000 copies, according to the Official Charts Company.
Britain’s right-leaning, pro-Thatcher newspapers have slammed the campaigns and called on the BBC not to play the song this Sunday.It could be the most inappropriate and gratuitously offensive number one hit single ever.
A spokeswoman for BBC Radio 1 declined to comment on the delicate politics at play, saying the station “will make a decision about playing it when the final chart positions are clear” on Sunday.
Ding Dong! The Witch Is Dead has failed to reach the number one spot in the music charts this week.
The Wizard of Oz song, which has been at the centre of an online campaign by opponents of Baroness Thatcher, reached number two after selling 52,605 copies.
Itll get there next week I hope and we shall see if the BBC ( British Brainwashing Coorporation ) plays it or not, right now they wont touch it.... over a dead old hag ... unbelievable but expected.
Yea I paid up just to help it get there, i will laugh my socks off if it makes it....
Gotta love our establishments bais sometimes ................
STICK IT TO THE MAN and tell it like it is I say.
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DeletedUser
Agree wholeheartedly with you Victor, although I'd just like to add this;
After Margaret Thatcher's funeral, you will be able to download Tony Blair's eulogy to her from the BBC iPlayer.
Just look for it under 'The Blair/Witch Project'.
After Margaret Thatcher's funeral, you will be able to download Tony Blair's eulogy to her from the BBC iPlayer.
Just look for it under 'The Blair/Witch Project'.
DeletedUser31931
Tiger just one question. Did you live under Thatcher as prime-minister?
DeletedUser
You already know the answer to that. And I can see the route you're going down with this (if you didn't live under her rule, er, I mean, term of office, why do you not like her?). Well Zemmy, in case you've forgotten, I study history. Which means I learn about stuff that happened before I was born. A difficult concept I know, but you'll soon get the hang of it.
DeletedUser31931
Ya got the question wrong. Instead the question was: So where did you learn the most about her. Because depending on who you hear about her from depends on your view. Some people think she is a saint who saved the country. Personally, from what I've heard, I don't think she's evil. I think she is someone who stood up and did what she believed needed to be done to bring the country out of recession. And it worked! and if it weren't for the Falklands War, it wouldn't have worked.
DeletedUser
You're obviously not a historian are you? When building up a picture of someone, you have to take accounts from both sides (pro and anti), then compare them with the facts.
Let's look at the good and bad things she did;
GOOD:
The Right-to-Buy scheme: Thatcher's decision to allow council tenants to buy the properties they lived in at a discount was smart politics because it "converted thousands of Labour voters into Conservatives". More than 1.25 million people signed up to the scheme which added £18 billion to government coffers. On the downside, the scheme depleted the stock of social housing.
Education reform: Many people remember Thatcher as the Education Secretary who "snatched" free milk from 7 to 11 year olds. But her education legacy is more positive than that, says The Independent. Her Education Reform Act was responsible for introducing a national curriculum, setting up the Office for Standards in Education (Ofsted), bringing in regular school inspections and allowing schools to manage their own budgets. "She was responsible for many of the reforms now being built upon by the current Education Secretary, Michael Gove," says The Independent.
Helping end the Cold War: Thatcher stood shoulder-to-shoulder with President Reagan to install cruise missiles in Europe and resist Soviet expansionism. According to former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev, his relationship with Thatcher "helped bring change and tear down the Iron Curtain". They first met in 1984. "In the end, we were able to achieve mutual understanding, and this contributed to a change in the atmosphere between our country and the West and to the end of the Cold War," he told Reuters yesterday.
Scepticism towards Europe: Thatcher initially supported membership of the European Community. Later, however, she "passionately fought and won a number of battles against what she saw as the excessive powers of Brussels," says the BBC. The Independent says she "shocked other European leaders with her handbag-swinging negotiating style". But her hostility towards Europe also sowed the seeds of her destruction. Her opposition to the Exchange Rate Mechanism (a precursor of the single currency) and other, as she saw it, threats to British sovereignty, triggered the resignations of Thatcher stalwarts Chancellor Nigel Lawson and Foreign Secretary Geoffrey Howe, and eventually led to her own downfall.
BAD:
The poll tax: The Community Charge (popularly known as the poll tax) was a single flat-rate per-capita tax on every adult, introduced in Scotland in 1989 and England and Wales in 1990. Critics said the shift from a tax based on the value of a house to a tax based on the number of people living in it, discriminated against the less well off. Large numbers of people refused to pay and the tax triggered violent riots, notably the pitched battle between police and rioters in Trafalgar Square on Saturday, 31 March, 1990. The hated tax was abolished in 1993. ·
Forcing the Labour Party to the right: When Thatcher was asked to name her greatest achievement she reportedly said: "New Labour". The former PM defeated Labour at three elections and forced the party "to drag itself into the modern world" by supporting "market forces; privatisation; reform of employment laws and lower taxation for individuals and business".
Privatisation: In her memoirs, Thatcher describes privatisation as "fundamental to improving Britain's economic performance". It also "chimed with her political ideology," says the Daily Telegraph. During her times as PM more than 50 state-run companies were sold or privatised – including dozens from the power and water industries – raising more than £50 billion for the Exchequer.
Oh and let's not forget how she destroyed the North. here's just one example.
The Falklands War: The 1982 war was one of the most controversial episodes of the Thatcher era. Her decision to send a task force to the South Atlantic - against the advice of many in her inner circle - earned the enduring gratitude of the islanders, who celebrate Thatcher Day every 10 January. At home, victory was marked with ticker-tape parades in London and Portsmouth. Much more importantly, it led to the landslide election victory of 1983.
(Not forgetting of course that the Falklands legally belong to the Argentinians)
Oh, and of course, in regards to the Education Act above, there's Section 28 a piece of homophobic legislation that wasn't abolished until 2003.
So, there's the facts, looking at them I'd say that she wasn't all that nice. What about you?
Let's look at the good and bad things she did;
GOOD:
The Right-to-Buy scheme: Thatcher's decision to allow council tenants to buy the properties they lived in at a discount was smart politics because it "converted thousands of Labour voters into Conservatives". More than 1.25 million people signed up to the scheme which added £18 billion to government coffers. On the downside, the scheme depleted the stock of social housing.
Education reform: Many people remember Thatcher as the Education Secretary who "snatched" free milk from 7 to 11 year olds. But her education legacy is more positive than that, says The Independent. Her Education Reform Act was responsible for introducing a national curriculum, setting up the Office for Standards in Education (Ofsted), bringing in regular school inspections and allowing schools to manage their own budgets. "She was responsible for many of the reforms now being built upon by the current Education Secretary, Michael Gove," says The Independent.
Helping end the Cold War: Thatcher stood shoulder-to-shoulder with President Reagan to install cruise missiles in Europe and resist Soviet expansionism. According to former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev, his relationship with Thatcher "helped bring change and tear down the Iron Curtain". They first met in 1984. "In the end, we were able to achieve mutual understanding, and this contributed to a change in the atmosphere between our country and the West and to the end of the Cold War," he told Reuters yesterday.
Scepticism towards Europe: Thatcher initially supported membership of the European Community. Later, however, she "passionately fought and won a number of battles against what she saw as the excessive powers of Brussels," says the BBC. The Independent says she "shocked other European leaders with her handbag-swinging negotiating style". But her hostility towards Europe also sowed the seeds of her destruction. Her opposition to the Exchange Rate Mechanism (a precursor of the single currency) and other, as she saw it, threats to British sovereignty, triggered the resignations of Thatcher stalwarts Chancellor Nigel Lawson and Foreign Secretary Geoffrey Howe, and eventually led to her own downfall.
BAD:
The poll tax: The Community Charge (popularly known as the poll tax) was a single flat-rate per-capita tax on every adult, introduced in Scotland in 1989 and England and Wales in 1990. Critics said the shift from a tax based on the value of a house to a tax based on the number of people living in it, discriminated against the less well off. Large numbers of people refused to pay and the tax triggered violent riots, notably the pitched battle between police and rioters in Trafalgar Square on Saturday, 31 March, 1990. The hated tax was abolished in 1993. ·
Forcing the Labour Party to the right: When Thatcher was asked to name her greatest achievement she reportedly said: "New Labour". The former PM defeated Labour at three elections and forced the party "to drag itself into the modern world" by supporting "market forces; privatisation; reform of employment laws and lower taxation for individuals and business".
Privatisation: In her memoirs, Thatcher describes privatisation as "fundamental to improving Britain's economic performance". It also "chimed with her political ideology," says the Daily Telegraph. During her times as PM more than 50 state-run companies were sold or privatised – including dozens from the power and water industries – raising more than £50 billion for the Exchequer.
Oh and let's not forget how she destroyed the North. here's just one example.
The Falklands War: The 1982 war was one of the most controversial episodes of the Thatcher era. Her decision to send a task force to the South Atlantic - against the advice of many in her inner circle - earned the enduring gratitude of the islanders, who celebrate Thatcher Day every 10 January. At home, victory was marked with ticker-tape parades in London and Portsmouth. Much more importantly, it led to the landslide election victory of 1983.
(Not forgetting of course that the Falklands legally belong to the Argentinians)
Oh, and of course, in regards to the Education Act above, there's Section 28 a piece of homophobic legislation that wasn't abolished until 2003.
So, there's the facts, looking at them I'd say that she wasn't all that nice. What about you?
Harsha..
Well-Known Member
I dispute the presence of the falklands war on the bad list. As a student of history, you should know that these islands were uninhabited when first discovered by the Europeans in the 16th century. If they were conquered from the Argentinians, then yeah - they legally belong to them. But that isn't the case. In essence, Thacher defended Uk soverngity when she sent that task force
There was a referendum, the Falklanders chose to stay with the UK - end of story. That is, unless you have some radical ideas of ownership of land being decided not by the people, but by geography
There was a referendum, the Falklanders chose to stay with the UK - end of story. That is, unless you have some radical ideas of ownership of land being decided not by the people, but by geography
DeletedUser28032
From what I've found, people who were within the armed forces at the time are Thatchers main supporters as she gave them a rather hefty pay rise not to mention the effect of the Falklands war. Most other people don't like her. Also a lot of the things she did seem to be still effecting us today and not for the better.
As for the Falklands (Which is another debate entirely) the British army took the islands from the Spanish in the late 1800's also the Argentinian's have declared the referendum "illegal" so its not sorted anything
As for the Falklands (Which is another debate entirely) the British army took the islands from the Spanish in the late 1800's also the Argentinian's have declared the referendum "illegal" so its not sorted anything
DeletedUser34315
Many would consider privatization to be on the good list..
Wikipedia:
The process of privatisation, especially the preparation of nationalised industries for privatisation, was associated with marked improvements in performance, particularly in terms of labour productivity.[123] Some of the privatised industries, including gas, water, and electricity, were natural monopolies for which privatisation involved little increase in competition. The privatised industries that demonstrated improvement often did so while still under state ownership. British Steel, for instance, made great gains in profitability while still a nationalised industry under the government-appointed chairmanship of Ian MacGregor, who faced down trade-union opposition to close plants and reduce the workforce by half.[124] Regulation was also significantly expanded to compensate for the loss of direct government control, with the foundation of regulatory bodies like Ofgas, Oftel and the National Rivers Authority.[125] There was no clear pattern to the degree of competition, regulation, and performance among the privatised industries;[123] in most cases privatisation benefitted consumers in terms of lower prices and improved efficiency, but the results overall were "mixed".[126]
Plus, ideologically speaking, i feel that a private industry is better than a government run one.
Wikipedia:
The process of privatisation, especially the preparation of nationalised industries for privatisation, was associated with marked improvements in performance, particularly in terms of labour productivity.[123] Some of the privatised industries, including gas, water, and electricity, were natural monopolies for which privatisation involved little increase in competition. The privatised industries that demonstrated improvement often did so while still under state ownership. British Steel, for instance, made great gains in profitability while still a nationalised industry under the government-appointed chairmanship of Ian MacGregor, who faced down trade-union opposition to close plants and reduce the workforce by half.[124] Regulation was also significantly expanded to compensate for the loss of direct government control, with the foundation of regulatory bodies like Ofgas, Oftel and the National Rivers Authority.[125] There was no clear pattern to the degree of competition, regulation, and performance among the privatised industries;[123] in most cases privatisation benefitted consumers in terms of lower prices and improved efficiency, but the results overall were "mixed".[126]
Plus, ideologically speaking, i feel that a private industry is better than a government run one.
DeletedUser
Ideologically speaking? Pfft. Thatcher's privatisation destroyed the North, I provided you with just one example. there's many, many, many more.
@ Harsha & Braetwalda
I'm not going to get into a discussion about who has the rights to the Falklands because A: it's off topic, and B: we've done it before; http://forum.the-west.net/showthread.php?t=50150
DeletedUser31931
I highly resent that, I'm a historian and in more ways that you would think. I could infact upload the extended essay I did recently on The importance of the War at Sea during WWI but I can't really be bothered to sort though my stuff and find it.
As for whether she was a nice person. No, she was not technically speaking a nice person. She did some pretty horrible things in her time. However, she did what she believed was necessary to bring the country out of recession. And hell it worked didn't it? If we'd have carried on the way we were going with no change, who knows where we could have ended up. Yes there were other paths out, but she chose one and stuck to it. For that, I don't necessarily like her, but I respect her.