DeletedUser16008
Hehe, I really do enjoy how often you contradict yourself.
Only after the update Hells i was being facetious
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...sg=AFQjCNEgqJYXZguoaxBEcNql4IWoQ-9jrw&cad=rja
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Only after the update Hells i was being facetious
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...sg=AFQjCNEgqJYXZguoaxBEcNql4IWoQ-9jrw&cad=rja
DeletedUser
Nah, you were stating that your resistance build can beat all other duelers, and yet you previously argued that missile duelers can beat all other duelers and, once again, in your second to last post here you argue that missile builds can beat all other duelers. Therein lay the contradiction.
DeletedUser16008
lol ummm i suggest you read that thread again
Dude i DON'T have a resistance build, ive never stated resist builds are anything but the easiest to beat. I stated that the best build is shooter and that for a challenge i have focused on melee builds but NON resist ...and that the build i ended up with does a damned fine jobs vs whoever until the coming update and is i believe THE ultimate Mellee yeesh
Its ok Hells i know we are all getting older and its been too long since you saw the opticians
DeletedUser
Meh, it's still a contradiction because you're arguing you built the unbeatable melee build. Throwing my comment off-track by pointing how I assumed your melee build was a resistance build does not dismiss your contradiction.
So here's the correction: You claim missile-builds pwn melee-builds, and yet you claim your melee-build pwns all other builds.
So here's the correction: You claim missile-builds pwn melee-builds, and yet you claim your melee-build pwns all other builds.
DeletedUser16008
umm you just said my build was resist not me.
Nope i claim my melee build is the best where melee is concerned and yup it pawns most any build on a normal day yes, i dont say its unbeatable just its the ultimate MELEE build.
Had i said its the best build on the game you would have me but as i was talking strictly about melee you dont
That prize definitely goes to the shooter build, always has, but hey its so easy to work out why theres no need to highlight that.
Diggo11
Well-Known Member
Err show of hands, who thinks resistance duelling is overpowered and is "killing" traditional builds?
DeletedUser
Just saying as a basic foundation-
How would you beat a level 120 shooter that has 120 Dexterity 120 dodge, 120 aim, 180 shooting and 60HP (just pretend no bonuses or quests) if you were a Melee dueller?
IMO the best way to go would be, 120 strength, 120 aim, 120 dodge, 120HP and 240 vigor.
Therefore the favour is in the hands of a melee dueller, I expect not many people will use tactics and appearance (hmmmm maybe soldiers will use tactics), it's all speculation and theory but the bottom line is how MUCH is the penalty for dodging the wrong way, how many points higher does your aim have to be than their dodge to guarantee a hit lands?
The cap on Appearance/tactics has obviously been expanded (or will be), so more is needed vs -Aim, how much has the ratio dropped?
Same goes for reflex/toughness vs shooting/vigor, will it be as bad as expected?
I remember when the -1 hp hits were a massive problem, they rightfully capped it in a later update (my memory is fuzzy for exact figures), this caused outrage for tank builds, yet the build lives on.
I think it won't be as bad as we think but I would take VK's point serious and not be so quick to dismiss his comments, he is a player with concern and I don't think he would address this topic for self gain.
I can't tell you any answers and probably never will be able to, that's what keeps us busy.
How would you beat a level 120 shooter that has 120 Dexterity 120 dodge, 120 aim, 180 shooting and 60HP (just pretend no bonuses or quests) if you were a Melee dueller?
IMO the best way to go would be, 120 strength, 120 aim, 120 dodge, 120HP and 240 vigor.
Therefore the favour is in the hands of a melee dueller, I expect not many people will use tactics and appearance (hmmmm maybe soldiers will use tactics), it's all speculation and theory but the bottom line is how MUCH is the penalty for dodging the wrong way, how many points higher does your aim have to be than their dodge to guarantee a hit lands?
The cap on Appearance/tactics has obviously been expanded (or will be), so more is needed vs -Aim, how much has the ratio dropped?
Same goes for reflex/toughness vs shooting/vigor, will it be as bad as expected?
I remember when the -1 hp hits were a massive problem, they rightfully capped it in a later update (my memory is fuzzy for exact figures), this caused outrage for tank builds, yet the build lives on.
I think it won't be as bad as we think but I would take VK's point serious and not be so quick to dismiss his comments, he is a player with concern and I don't think he would address this topic for self gain.
I can't tell you any answers and probably never will be able to, that's what keeps us busy.
DeletedUser16008
Never said it wasnt or it didnt need addressing, has done for years and ive been here many times saying so, if some of us had been listened to a few years ago maybe it wouldnt be so bad or so quiet now
all it needed was resist skills to be nerfed slightly imo
Diggo11
Well-Known Member
So traditional ranged builds "IS and ALWAYS has been the best build", yet resistance builds need to be nerfed at all? Righteo, whatever :razz:Never said it wasnt or it didnt need addressing, has done for years and ive been here many times saying so, if some of us had been listened to a few years ago maybe it wouldnt be so bad or so quiet now
DeletedUser16628
Good grief,Seeing is believing and we shall see.Vic I'm much the same is you in most of my builds and god knows that resist is just plain boring.I respecc often so you never know what build I'm using.Anyway let's hope it's for the best and not a game killer for the hardcore duelers.
DeletedUser22575
Well, I duel some but I will hold most of my comments on this change until after the update comes out and I try it, but for now.
Resist needs change yes. I dueled another one last night. He hit me 6 times and I hit him 4, so I deserved to loose. However, he averaged 189 per hit using a Hernandos and I averaged 43 using an Allen's pepperbox. I know the Allens has a wide fluctuation on damage but with some of these monster resist builds this is pretty typical of the way they eat up damage even using a Belles against them.
I hate to see the charisma/dodge build killed off. It was a good fun dueling build and it was effective about 50% of the time against resist monsters if you head shot them every shot and dodged well. Not only that there should not only be two "cookie cutter" dueling builds.
At one time there was a holiday quest I think it was where you had to duel your evil twin. It does appear that like Vic said there will be a lot of players reskilling to the Dex build. I hope this new change does not end up where all I am doing is dueling my evil twin. :laugh: If that is the case I think the number of non dueling classes getting hit will increase as players get frustrated dueling against themselves for all practical purposes.
I could be wrong, but I understand there is a quest that gives a free reset for skills with 1.33 that everyone can do and change any skill. If that is true that is wrong. It should be for changing AP/SP only from certain areas to others associated with passed dueling areas CHA to Dex. etc. Not give everyone a free quest reset for higher level difficult quests.
And finally, the constant every other post whine about zeromot from Hugh Grant. If you are a non dueler what difference does it make to you who you get beat by. An exp duelers can duel you just as many times a day as a zero mot and beat you just as often.
Resist needs change yes. I dueled another one last night. He hit me 6 times and I hit him 4, so I deserved to loose. However, he averaged 189 per hit using a Hernandos and I averaged 43 using an Allen's pepperbox. I know the Allens has a wide fluctuation on damage but with some of these monster resist builds this is pretty typical of the way they eat up damage even using a Belles against them.
I hate to see the charisma/dodge build killed off. It was a good fun dueling build and it was effective about 50% of the time against resist monsters if you head shot them every shot and dodged well. Not only that there should not only be two "cookie cutter" dueling builds.
At one time there was a holiday quest I think it was where you had to duel your evil twin. It does appear that like Vic said there will be a lot of players reskilling to the Dex build. I hope this new change does not end up where all I am doing is dueling my evil twin. :laugh: If that is the case I think the number of non dueling classes getting hit will increase as players get frustrated dueling against themselves for all practical purposes.
I could be wrong, but I understand there is a quest that gives a free reset for skills with 1.33 that everyone can do and change any skill. If that is true that is wrong. It should be for changing AP/SP only from certain areas to others associated with passed dueling areas CHA to Dex. etc. Not give everyone a free quest reset for higher level difficult quests.
And finally, the constant every other post whine about zeromot from Hugh Grant. If you are a non dueler what difference does it make to you who you get beat by. An exp duelers can duel you just as many times a day as a zero mot and beat you just as often.
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DeletedUser363
Yes, I was also wondering about this. Because if it allows everyone a free reskill, I expect a huge, gigantic, massive, <insert another synonym for big>, increase in pure HP players. They should either allow people to re-skill their dueling skills only, or only give this quest to actual duelers. By this I mean people who have more than 15,000 duel experience, or who have won more than 150 duels.
DeletedUser
And that's actually a positive thing so that devs can see that the problem exists and start working on the health (care?) problem for the next update.
I say yes to this. In fact I don't think anyone would object, but please add it to Ideas section just to be sure.
I say nay. Why? Open a multiacc over proxy, spam duel him with zeromot char and you meet the requirement. Of course not everyone would cheat, but then again, better safe than sorry, right? So please keep the first XP (or dueling level) requirement as you practically can't get 15.000 XP by opening a multi in just a few days, but you can cheat 150 wins. Thanks.
DeletedUser22575
They would have to do both.
Despite Joxers whine about zermots they are real duelers and if you went by exp only they would not get the reskill if it was by exp only. And I don't see enough players being bothered to create a multi to duel them selves for 150 wins to be anything to worry about. Thats just joxer taking another crack at zero mots because they are his current troll complaint.
DeletedUser22575
Thanks for the info Diggo11.
DeletedUser
All I can say is I'm glad I have no characters with Charisma duel build then, that's going cost if that build turns out to be cack after update, which I suspect it will.
DeletedUser
So what about me that have around 40% of my AP in soon to be useless charisma?
What is the idea behind nerfing duel so we only have one build to choose from? everyone will have aim, dodge, shooting/vigor sounds really fun...
I have two accounts one charisma and one resist dueler. Char is great since i can do a lot of jobs and still duel when i want to. resist is a bit boring, too easy to build a good one, but it is only a good build, not a great build.
I agree that tactic soldier with character bonus premium is very strong, even OP. but it is only a defensive skill, i can't force ppl to attack me.
Why not just lower/remove premium tactic bonus?
With my resist account it is very easy to farm non duelers because my HP last forever, but that is the only thing that account is good for. It is easy to beat a resist dueler, it is only hard to KO him.
What makes resist really good is 0 motivation, stay low in lvl and just farm everything around you.
So why change reflex and toughness when it is motivation that should have been removed?
Two easy changes that would fix something that really didn't need to be fixed, but still much better then try to make us all play exactly the same.
The thing that really need to be change with duel, is the lottery moment with stance, but you keep that? make me wonder if any of the devs even play a dueler?
:shootout:
DeletedUser
I don't recall seeing you on beta helping test the new system.....
DeletedUser16008
The ones who are really going to benefit are fort fighters since 2 major skills will be more important in dueling ...
yes bad news a simple small nerf to resist and taking away the soldier tactic bonus would have done it ... seems to me its all gotten ott and now they are gonna give a respec to everyone for free ???
Great the pure duelers with AP get shafted and the rest of the population get a free respec... id be lying if i wasnt finding it just a little bit one sided given its supposed to be about dueling ...
yes bad news a simple small nerf to resist and taking away the soldier tactic bonus would have done it ... seems to me its all gotten ott and now they are gonna give a respec to everyone for free ???
Great the pure duelers with AP get shafted and the rest of the population get a free respec... id be lying if i wasnt finding it just a little bit one sided given its supposed to be about dueling ...
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