Why is the US So Fat?

DeletedUser

She got that way by being epileptic and placed on "Social Services" (Medicare/Medicaid) and was given a seat at the table of "entitlement", that place where money truly does grow on trees (the ones that everyone else has to plant, nurture and pay for that is). As her weight kept climbing, her epileptic medication became less and less stable so she was jumped from one drug to another to try to control, all the while playing the "poor me" card and not doing anything for herself. Currently, she has the mental ability of a pre-teenager and the family has to bail her out of her problems every few months (gets kicked out of houses, trailers, motel room, etc. due to not cleaning them and they become roach infested ... and no, I'm not kidding because we did it again last weekend ... it happens 3 or 4 times per year on average). She's had apartments in the past where she used an extra bedroom for trash because she didn't want to carry the trash out to the dumpster, and continues to used a plugged up toilet because "someone just spilled something on the floor" ... getting the picture of the total mental collapse that happens in an "entitlement" world (we've tried to put her into an assisted living facility but she checks herself out because they "keep all her money" ... we get her into a facility that lets her keep $52 of her $800 SSI check for a $5000/month facility and she walks out).

There may have been more she could have done to try keeping her weight down, but I think you should read up on what epilepsy (and the meds prescribed for it) does to a person's body and mind before judging her too harshly. I have to say though, she'd never be allowed to live on her own in Minnesota if she couldn't take care of herself better than that. If she did, they'd at least have someone helping out with cleaning and personal care (whether you agree with them doing that or not is another story.)
 

DeletedUser

Can't make this stuff up. I spent yesterday going through two boxes of DVD's from her last house (throwing away the plastic DVD containers and keeping the DVD's in a single book because I knew they were infested and there's no way those roach motels were coming inside my house). I knew roaches would be in the DVD containers and I was right, not everyone of them, not even 1/3 but enough to make me glad I opened them outside ... then every time my head itched or sweat would drip down my back or the back of my neck, I thought it was a roach that I missed and was crawling on me.

I know this appears to some to be slightly off-topic but one of the things I'm trying to point out is the true pathology that is involved with some people who become, through fault or no-fault of their own, morbidly obese. They sometimes lose all ability to function is society and even give up on basic day-to-day living functions that most of us take for granted so much that we do it without thinking (over flowing toilet, fix it before flushing again. Trash, might need to be taken outside where the trash trucks can actually pick it up. Roaches, CLEAN UP!). It's bad when you have to insist that a family member take a bath/shower before coming over to your house, it's even worse when they bring a covered dish to a family function and you wait for the opportunity to throw it away because you know the unsanitary conditions in which it was prepared)
 

DeletedUser

I can definitely understand your disgust with the conditions. I was just saying that her behavior isn't necessarily caused by the obesity; it's more likely that the obesity is caused (at least partially) by the behavior.

I have a cousin who was morbidly obese (he was close to 600 pounds before he had surgery), and he still functioned fairly normally in society. He couldn't drive himself because there wasn't room behind the steering wheel, but he still went to work. He also showered every day, washed his clothes regularly and helped his wife keep the house and kids clean.

On the other hand, I know a woman with epilepsy who has lost so much of her brain functioning from grand mal seizures that she forgets to eat, has to be reminded to do basic self-care things, and can't drive or work. If she didn't have someone living with her to help take care of the cooking, cleaning, etc., she'd probably be living under circumstances similar to those of your sister-in-law. Most people don't see it as easily with her because she's also diabetic, and the diet they have her on keeps her weight down.
 

DeletedUser

There may have been more she could have done to try keeping her weight down, but I think you should read up on what epilepsy (and the meds prescribed for it) does to a person's body and mind before judging her too harshly. I have to say though, she'd never be allowed to live on her own in Minnesota if she couldn't take care of herself better than that. If she did, they'd at least have someone helping out with cleaning and personal care (whether you agree with them doing that or not is another story.)

You would think that would be the case, but every state hs its cases that manage to wiggle through the cracks and she's a good enough wiggler to convince people that she's "normal" over the course of a few hours. Northern states tend to be better at handling social/societal problems because, and this is only in my opinion, people need to in order to survive. Down here in Florida, you don't need to worry about freezing to death in the winters nearly as much as you do in Minnesota (and I was raised in Colorado and born in Upstate NY so this isn't a slam on the northerners by any means, they stick together and help each other out more in rural areas than they do in more populous areas). Get into a poor section of the Minneapolis/St. Paul area and you can find someone like this if you look hard enough, down here in Florida (and all the warmer southern states) you have social services departments which are still dealing with poverty issues left over from the civil war (not many pockets of despair that can be traced back there, but surprisingly they exist). People who can't make it up north end up migrating south and that is part of our inability to deal with it on a mass social services basis but this is now getting way too far off topic.

Personally, I was a paramedic for 4 years and know what those killer cocktails can do to an epileptic and I've lived it first hand for 12 years. What I was trying to point out is that sometimes social services actually can exasperate the problem they are trying to help (a $1,000+ personal electric chair with reinforcements for the heavier weight was given to help and it did help ... add on an extra 100+ pounds).
 

DeletedUser

John, I truly believe the behaviors you're presenting are psychological. People with epilepsy are not automatically offered disability status. Their condition has to be full-disabling.

Obtaining SSA/SSI in the U.S., on a disability claim, is a horrendous venture. No functionally sane, or functionally healthy person would undergo the process. On the average it takes people THREE years of living without income, relying on food stamps and homeless shelters, before they are finally determined to be full-disabled. Only in rare, extreme cases do people obtain SSA/SSI within a few months of their applying disability.

So, truly, I think you're demonstrating an irrational hatred for community services, and those people who must rely on the help of others. I mean, we could always just take all disabled persons, all persons utilizing community services, all the overly obese, drag them behind the barn and shoot them --- or we can accept that part of being morally right is to help those who can't readily help themselves.

Unfortunately, there really is no middle ground. You help, or you don't. And if you don't, they die, so might as well own up to the bullet.
 

DeletedUser

Im Classed as underweight in the UK, what would i be in the US?

I know this girl who thinks she is fat (she isint just wont listen), she is one of those who sees normal as fat now, and has to be super skinny :dry:
 

DeletedUser

John, I truly believe the behaviors you're presenting are psychological. People with epilepsy are not automatically offered disability status. Their condition has to be full-disabling.

Obtaining SSA/SSI in the U.S., on a disability claim, is a horrendous venture. No functionally sane, or functionally healthy person would undergo the process. On the average it takes people THREE years of living without income, relying on food stamps and homeless shelters, before they are finally determined to be full-disabled. Only in rare, extreme cases do people obtain SSA/SSI within a few months of their applying disability.

So, truly, I think you're demonstrating an irrational hatred for community services, and those people who must rely on the help of others. I mean, we could always just take all disabled persons, all persons utilizing community services, all the overly obese, drag them behind the barn and shoot them --- or we can accept that part of being morally right is to help those who can't readily help themselves.

Unfortunately, there really is no middle ground. You help, or you don't. And if you don't, they die, so might as well own up to the bullet.

This got a bit bent out of shape and tended to use this as an extreme condition, but I quoted someone else back on post #76 where they asked "What's worse than a 300 woman in tight clothes, and I instantly thought of a 400 pound woman who doesn't/can't bathe in clothes that she doesn't wash." and it went off into an explanation of how certain segments of our society are "enablers" to the entire problem of obesity. Her case is a prime example where every over worked person does the minimal amount to pass her through the system. I honestly think her poor hygiene has helped her get pushed through the system because if someone has to sit down with her for an extended period of time then they have to subject themselves to an incredible olfactory overload (I'm sorry, but that's the cleanest I can make it). And own up to the bullet is what we've had to do (oh, I didn't mention that she has two sons as well which we took in for 1 1/2 yrs several years ago, but social services gave her custody back after completing "parenting courses". I truly wish now that we had just let the children go into the foster care system because they probably would still be monitored to this day. Once she had that "passed parenting classes and counciling" then she was set loose so to speak).

"No functionally sane, or functionally healthy person would undergo the process. " and you're right. She's had the medical condtion for over 25 years and I don't know how long or how easy/hard it was for her to get on to the SSA/SSI because I did not know her at that time. My father had to go on to SSI and it took him 1 1/2 years in the mid-90's for emphysema. I know it's not easy, but being a single parent and having custody of two kids labeled as disabled helps speed the process along I'm sure.

And I don't have an irrational hatred for either the social services or for people who depend on the assistance of others. I have a very rational disdain for social workers, even those that are overloaded/overworked/underpaid, who knowingly push someone through the system. And I have an even more rational disdain for people who are educated on how to abuse the system and live their lives without any desire to improve their own lives. Everyone has a chance that they will fall on hard times, maybe it's a medical illness or a family members illness or a foreclosed home, injury, job loss, whatever and that person needs help ... no problem with that whatsoever. What goes around comes around, yin and yang, karma, fate, whatever you want to call it. But when you're helping a person try to get food and pay for a hotel room on a month-to-month basis and they turn around and buy the kids a pair of Air Jordans 2 or 3 times a year because they're too good to shop a Wal-Mart then my blood pressure pops. It's abuse of the system and sometimes I think (now we're getting back on topic here) that she has stayed "fat"/"obese" so that she will be seen more as a disabled person and get help. It was the act of giving her not one, but two electric wheelchairs modified for heavy individuals all at tax payer expense that I thought might fit well into this topic of why is US "fat" . . . nobody thought of giving a treadmill instead of a wheelchair because a wheelchair is a medical device covered under the social programs but a treadmill to help eliminate the obesity isn't covered because it's considered recreational equipment.

You help, or you don't. And if you don't, they die - you hit the nail on the head. That's it. I just don't know if the obesity related problems (not diabetic ... yet) or the epilepsy or something else completely different that will end up shortening her life. I only hope that I leave one bullet in a gun (which I don't own) to ensure that I don't spiral down to that type of lifestyle.
 
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DeletedUser

You would think that would be the case, but every state hs its cases that manage to wiggle through the cracks and she's a good enough wiggler to convince people that she's "normal" over the course of a few hours. Northern states tend to be better at handling social/societal problems because, and this is only in my opinion, people need to in order to survive. Down here in Florida, you don't need to worry about freezing to death in the winters nearly as much as you do in Minnesota (and I was raised in Colorado and born in Upstate NY so this isn't a slam on the northerners by any means, they stick together and help each other out more in rural areas than they do in more populous areas). Get into a poor section of the Minneapolis/St. Paul area and you can find someone like this if you look hard enough, down here in Florida (and all the warmer southern states) you have social services departments which are still dealing with poverty issues left over from the civil war (not many pockets of despair that can be traced back there, but surprisingly they exist). People who can't make it up north end up migrating south and that is part of our inability to deal with it on a mass social services basis but this is now getting way too far off topic.

Personally, I was a paramedic for 4 years and know what those killer cocktails can do to an epileptic and I've lived it first hand for 12 years. What I was trying to point out is that sometimes social services actually can exasperate the problem they are trying to help (a $1,000+ personal electric chair with reinforcements for the heavier weight was given to help and it did help ... add on an extra 100+ pounds).

I don't really think it was wrong for them to supply the chair, but I agree that they should have done more to help with the underlying problems. I've lived on disability myself for close to 20 years now, and I know it would be easy to let yourself give up and end up like her. I can't do much exercising, but I do force myself to do as much as I can without causing severe problems. Some days it's just walking to the end of the building and back (probably less than 100 feet total), but I usually try to go to a store every day and walk down every aisle because the carts make it easier to do.

I'm lucky because I'm not one to just eat out of boredom, but I know that some people get to the point where it almost seems like that's all there is to do other than sit around or sleep. I think that having someone go in and do her shopping and cooking might help some, and physical therapy just to get her out and doing some kind of exercising. Once she lost a bit of weight and built up some strength, her self-esteem might improve and make her more concerned about her hygiene.

I also have someone who comes in once a week to help with some of the household things I have trouble with myself; mainly mopping, vacuuming, washing windows, taking out trash, cleaning the bathroom, etc. If she could get even that much help (although I know many who have someone help out every day, paid for by the county/state), it would keep it from getting to the point it sounds like it's usually at. Unfortunately, you're probably right. Minnesota does put a lot of emphasis on social services and education, and the taxes here show it.
 

DeletedUser

John, you gave a little more information. What you're describing are symptoms of an anti-social personality disorder, low-functioning. Whatever health issues she may have, it looks very much like she has a psychiatric-based disability, not a medical-based disability. Her odor, her obesity, her sloven lifestyle, all sound like efforts to push people away, to be left alone (anti-social). I wouldn't doubt she's also annoying to talk to, puts you on edge.

For the basis of these discussions, her condition does not fit well. Her obesity is a symptom of her uncommon psychological disorder --- not an eating disorder, a result of poor diet or low exercise.
 
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