Virtualize Dueling

supraxus

Proposal:
Keep dueling as an integral part of The West, but move it towards it's own virtualized version in the game

Current Workaround:
None - You duel or you don't duel, this is a new system

Details:
Possibly the biggest 'issue' in the player community with dueling is the impact that it has to you when you play the game. By this I mean: Duelers love to duel, other players like their own thing (Forts, Quests, Crafts, etc...). Most non-duelers object to being dueled b/c they have the potential to lose 1.Health 2.Money 3.Time. Meanwhile, for a year now, most duelers have been forced to make various changes to their style-of-play b/c of the various tweaks to dueling that Inno has made. In the current system, most players have a reason to be unhappy.

So let's virtualize dueling. Keep it as an integral element of the game, but separate it's 'effects' from it's gameplay. Also, keep it as close to how the current system works as possible. Here's how:
Health
1. Every player has their 'dueling pool of health' that is identical to their normal health. It's now kept as a separate counter.
2. When being dueled, this virtual health pool is used.
3. If you get 'ko'ed', you are safe from dueling for 48 hours.
4. The key here is that you still haven't lost you normal health. Even if you get ko'ed (say while you're working) you can go about your normal day.
5. Ditto for the attacker(s). You lose your health from your virtual pool, once it's exhausted you can't duel for 48 hours.

Energy
1. Exactly the same as it is now. You initiate a duel, you lose your energy points.
2. If you get ko'ed in a duel, as a defender you don't lose your EP.
3. If you get ko'ed in a duel, as an attacker you DO lose your EP.

Money
1. Winners in duels now get bonds OR cash. But no more taking the losers cash. We'll need some kind of bond formula, but Inno can and should work that out for themselves.
2. If you win, you get a choice of bonds or cash. If you lose, you don't. I think the amount of bonds and/or cash should be based on the type of duel. More should be given for a duel where you are closer to your opponents skill/level, less if you massively outweigh them, much more if you are massively 'underweight'

Rank
1. Dueling still has impact for Duel Ranking - BUT -
2. Dueling no longer counts towards town rank
(point 2 above can be flexible. We can have it count, I don't see this as a major issue)

Experience Points
1. Still the same, you can gain XP from winning duels

SP/AP
1. Exactly the same. You need to commit real points into the effort. No 'virtual skills'


Visual Aids
None needed.

Summary:
The new system is designed to allow duelers to duel and still gain advantages from doing so, but without the impact to other players in the way that hurts them most - HP, EP (losing it if you get ko'ed) and Money. Inno can then re-write the dueling system to any which way suits the majority of players (camping, old duel formulas, whatever), while leaving the rest of the players to continue the current development path Inno is on.

Administration:
Does this idea meet the Ideas Guidelines & Criteria? Yes/No
Does this idea appear on any of the Previously Suggested Ideas List? Yes, but in different forms. This takes the ideas in a different direction
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Rebow

Well-Known Member
Im gonna say no.

I like they way dueling affects the rest of the game features, like dueling before battles, stealing money, "harassing" enemy towns and so on.. It already is a minor feature in the game, and much to little important.
Im more for making it the main part of the game, where dueling is not only a "side vocation" but absolutely essential for playing. Incorporate it into working jobs, defending your town against bands of crocks, team bank robberies of NPC towns and so on.
Dueling is a vast under-explored feature, that has much potential if its just developed more.
 
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supraxus

I can understand what you're saying Rebow, but you see, my concern is that over the past year, a lot of the changes to The West (and in particular, Dueling) have driven many active players away from the game. This proposal would allow some degree of 'reverting to the big-bad days of dueling' w/o negatively impacting the rest of the game.

I see it as a win for everyone. Non-duelers can still be dueled, but the element of loss for them is diminished. Meanwhile, duelers still have an element of risk, and element of gain and loss, an element of status, but w/o the consequences of 'harassing' other players.

yes, you can call it a pacifist strategy, but the way I see it, Inno has been going down this road for a while now. I figure this method of dueling, virtualization, gives duelers a reason to stay. Looking at the people who've recently left, I get the feeling that the duelers are so full of apathy.... We've gotta do something!

BTW, this system would allow other changes for dueling as well:

1. Dueling tournaments as per Jakkals (and others') ideas.
2. The idea that dueling levels could (not saying they should, just an option) go up and down
3. Zero MOT duelers still can do their thing
4. Town wars
5. Competitions - Best monthly dueler wins 50 nuggets (or whatever)
 
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Rebow

Well-Known Member
I just think this whole dueling\fort battle thing is getting old. It's been around for so long, its getting too predictable, too routine. The system is good, it just needs a little freshening up. Use the fort battle and dueling system for something new.
The fun part about these features has always been to refine them to perfection. Once you've done that, and little or no refinement is possible, it's not so entertaining anymore.
 
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Sagaris

Well-Known Member
going to have to say no as well. i enjoy the "risk" factor of dueling, by taking away the loss of EP and cash when you get Ko'd whats the risk?
 

rice farmer

Duelers should be able to get bonds, and while I don't think this idea will pass, I feel your pain.
 

Numbnuts McCoy

I think its a good concept but the cash component is a no for me. Duellers need to get cash, but the protection of Energy for the defender is a good idea. So maybe cash and bonds for duelling.
 

supraxus

I added an element into the money section to allow duelers to get money and/or bonds. But still not to take money from the loser of the duel.

Why? - Again, to separate the idea of dueling from it's effects on the players that don't want to duel.

The money formula (which I am not going to work out), should be based in such a way that your payout increases as the duel itself gets more difficult, and less if you have easy duels.

The bond formula can be added as an option, can be used in place of the money, or can be removed entirely.
 

yidboi

Well-Known Member
To me this seems like it would just be giving duelers all the perks of being in a duel, but with no drawbacks. And there needs to be weaknesses to dueling otherwise everyone would do it. I think it's a case of taking the bad with the good.

I just think this whole dueling\fort battle thing is getting old. It's been around for so long, its getting too predictable, too routine. The system is good, it just needs a little freshening up. Use the fort battle and dueling system for something new.
The fun part about these features has always been to refine them to perfection. Once you've done that, and little or no refinement is possible, it's not so entertaining anymore.
I agree, the dueling features have got a bit boring and need freshening up, I think this is the best way to get around the whole thing rather than changing the way that dueling has always worked. Maybe the devs should look into adding something like Skirmishes. Pretty much the same as a fort battle, but without the fort. So lots of people can join in and it wouldn't require any leveling up of buildings. It would just be a mass duel, but with a few less rewards than a fort battle because of the lack of effort that would go into participating. But at least it would mean you didn't need to use as much time and energy travelling to individual duels and you wouldn't need to worry about the up keep of a fort. It seems like a win win.
 

Judge R Bean

No....... This idea is just taking dueling even further away from the game.
 

Eli Makepeace

Nothing will kill PvP faster than offering the kind of immunities in this suggestion. Very few duellers will play for a pot rather than than being able to wreak havoc on other players. It may not be very nice, but that's what keeps the game vital.
 

supraxus

All the negative feedback is fine, it's just an idea, but I'd like to see someone post alternative suggestions.

Simply put, dueling is dying already. You can say no to this idea, and every other idea, but as a community we need to figure out some kind of way to bring dueling back.

OK, so close and delete Virtualization. Cool. But please, someone come up with something else