Feedback Update 2.184

Victor Kruger

Well-Known Member
So some actual feedback from my currently rather limited perspective:

Having a high level that'll take a long time to work towards is not a bad thing inherantly. But it should never need to be a 10+ year grind to get towards max level. That is just plain crazy. Also the fact that clothing is per level stats has and will warp pvp more insanely towards the higher levels. The game feels like character builds don't matter in the slightest, with clothing set bonuses and jobs unlocking at certain levels regardless of LP.

I think there needs to be a proper catchup mechanic for the lower-mid levels. Even something like an event with xp potions giving a (relatively) large flat amount opposed to %, to at least make it pretty easy for folks to hit 120 or so? Or player retention is bound to suffer more than it already does.
The quest xp and money rewards for the new levels are ridiculously small. And if the jobs are twice as difficult the rwards should be more than just 20% over the current best jobs, especially with the LP pickaxe system in jobs. As they need to be somewhat worth doing, or skilling towards unlocking the higher gains.

As per (Colorado) Fort Battles, lower levels will be contributing less than ever and can't do much about it without levelling up for like a year. But as long as sides are pretty even it currently feels like either side can win, the leaders just need to be adapting their tactics better (and not just sitting fish in a barrel). Though some weapon sets do seem a bit ridiculously overpowered and need to be equally spread to stand a chance of balance.

And since it does take so long to level up, there probably should be a way to change class baked into the game. A 1 time mid level quest, or 3k bond item with a long ass cooldown or something. Sure it'd probably lead to a tonne more duelers atm, but it could keep players around more - which the game sorely needs.

Welcome back to TW 2022 ..... isn't progress grand ?
 

Joe Kidd

Well-Known Member
The art for the new NPCs is a really poor design choice that doesn't fit in, looks plastic.

I don't think it's poor per se. If you put all the thumbnails of all the NPCs on a sheet you have the 3D model art, the painted over movie actors for the Unforgiven-esque quest (which is illegal by the way), the photobashed versions of the older 3D models, and now these new 2D art portraits that look AI art derived. This is indicative of any game that has many artists in the pot. I've offered to redo all of the NPC pro bono along with redone PC art with no takers
 

Goober Pyle

The West Team
Fort Balancing Strategist
So some actual feedback from my currently rather limited perspective:

Having a high level that'll take a long time to work towards is not a bad thing inherantly. But it should never need to be a 10+ year grind to get towards max level. That is just plain crazy. Also the fact that clothing is per level stats has and will warp pvp more insanely towards the higher levels. The game feels like character builds don't matter in the slightest, with clothing set bonuses and jobs unlocking at certain levels regardless of LP.

I think there needs to be a proper catchup mechanic for the lower-mid levels. Even something like an event with xp potions giving a (relatively) large flat amount opposed to %, to at least make it pretty easy for folks to hit 120 or so? Or player retention is bound to suffer more than it already does.
The quest xp and money rewards for the new levels are ridiculously small. And if the jobs are twice as difficult the rwards should be more than just 20% over the current best jobs, especially with the LP pickaxe system in jobs. As they need to be somewhat worth doing, or skilling towards unlocking the higher gains.

As per (Colorado) Fort Battles, lower levels will be contributing less than ever and can't do much about it without levelling up for like a year. But as long as sides are pretty even it currently feels like either side can win, the leaders just need to be adapting their tactics better (and not just sitting fish in a barrel). Though some weapon sets do seem a bit ridiculously overpowered and need to be equally spread to stand a chance of balance.

And since it does take so long to level up, there probably should be a way to change class baked into the game. A 1 time mid level quest, or 3k bond item with a long ass cooldown or something. Sure it'd probably lead to a tonne more duelers atm, but it could keep players around more - which the game sorely …

Another possible way to keep this from killing FF participation by the lower level players: Make the max damage taken per shot inversely scaled by level -- right now it's 33% max. level 200+ should stay 33%, but the lower your level, the lower the max. linear from 10% should be fine (eg
10%+LVL*0.117%
then you have the following:
min hits to kill : Level <= X:
10 : 9
9 : 21
8 : 36
7 : 56
6 : 85
5 : 128
4 : 199
3 : >199

Do that and low level advents become quite valuable. Then after level 100 players could be offered the opportunity to trade in 10x5% wisdom potions to go back to being greenhorns (and then choose another class)
 

Victor Kruger

Well-Known Member
Since I have not seen a bug free update in 10+ yrs, I am sure that will not come to pass. Things like that are outside of the box thinking, much less within the skill set of this game I fear.

Well if they can do as Goober suggests and revert players to greenhorn...... if they just put the bonus options at lvl 100 as a greenhorn with a choice of 4 bonus skills ... but yer the class choice locks things in .. can of worms so wont happen .. nor the other 99% of decent suggestions over the years.

heres a thought.. IF reverting to greenhorn at lvl 100 is possible and that could have a choice of bonus skills why not just make everyone at 100 title Veteran and the choice of the skills to represent that.... no classes after 100 just 4 bonus skills n call yourself whatever you like... its not like the class actually mean anything really just what you skill to do and the bonuses on them.. would stop problems can see coming with exactly what Darth mentioned with soldiers and damagers.... make everyone capable on the same level with bonus skills it comes down to the player far more ... not the class.
 
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RaiderRt

Well-Known Member
Some good ideas, but you guys are actually acting like Inno has a dev for this game. Always good to blue-sky ideas, but Inno took years to change a 1 to a 2, don't get your hopes up

Atm we seem to be facing a moderator (goober & jerry) enforced reshuffle on colo, sad to see, Some people would actually just like to play the game, according to the rules, without mod pressure to turn a world into their version of the west. Jerry & Goober, both players there, pressuring how the alliances should be aligned. And if you disagree, you get cut out of that loop. In the old days, mods had no influence on the worlds they play, so why has that changed? The rule was there for a reason, and that reason hasn't suddenly disappeared.
Some people would like to play according to the rules? I have nothing against you personally, but hope you're not talking about yourself as you should've been banned ages ago for insulting pretty much everyone
 

Bob Baumeister

Well-Known Member
Then after level 100 players could be offered the opportunity to trade in 10x5% wisdom potions to go back to being greenhorns (and then choose another class)

The german CM recently confirmed this is not going to happen: "Changing classes has already been ruled out by the LCM" [source]

Let's face it. There has not been any big development effort for years. Except for the fort fight formula that got ditched. They work on a best effort basis with the resources they have.


Another possible way to keep this from killing FF participation by the lower level players: Make the max damage taken per shot inversely scaled by level
The proposal looks nice on first glance. But it seems to favor low HP players, be it damage or resistance player. Anyway, it's unlikely they will implement any of the many FF formula related ideas.
 

CLAsSiCo

The West Team
Forum moderator
Hello Cowboys and Cowgirls

We are still looking for your comments and positive or negative feedbacks regarding the new update 2.184 .
Also your improvements ideas will be noted.

Your The West Team
 
Hi! First of all, I like the update. Character level should not be the main thing on the game, in my opinion, but some good standard on the quality of the player

That being said, people LOVE to level up, me included, but the church should not be the main or most important mean to gain xp. InnoGames should promote PvP game play (FF, duels, and adventures). So why not increase the xp gained on those aspects? Is a relative easy update.

-FF: A nice round number would be 48k instead of 6k (x8). People would be more active, that's what we all want

-Duels. Don't like FF? No problem, by dueling you can make up to 15k exp (maybe 15k, you can formulate some similar amount). Again, people would be more active.

-Adventures: I don´t really play them much, in my local server (.es) no one wants to play. But maybe offering some other price, perhaps 3 bonds if you win, 1 if you lose, something like that, players would be interested.

The idea is not to put a 4hs/9hs church queue and close the game to do something else.

Try to hold the players in the game, invested on it
 

DeletedUser15368

We are still looking for your comments and positive or negative feedbacks regarding the new update 2.184 .
Also your improvements ideas will be noted.
So we are still deep into the testing phase of version 2.184, and version 2.185 is already on beta.
Seems to me that they've already moved on, without addressing any PvP concerns, or even releasing a statement of intent to work on PvP.

All the positive feedback you're getting is from people that have built the church for the last 7 years, the time between the level 150 update and now, they're all happy because they haven't had anything to do for the last 7 years other than log in, queue church and log off.
All of the negative feedback is from the side of the player-base that keeps the game alive, players who are now, at best, 7 years behind our PvE counterparts in terms of levels because we had fun and engaged in the social and former award winning aspects of the game, secure in the false knowledge that we'd never be forced to do the "not fun" parts of the game again.

It's not difficult to summarise the community feedback and the way it's split.

If they wanted new levels, they should have done 20-50 levels a year, each new level packed with PvE content, instead of just doing 100 more levels and nothing to do with them, other than ruin the finely, bordering on barely, balanced PvP environments created by players for players, despite InnoGames.

Improvement Ideas?!
Normally I pride myself on not just providing positive or negative feedback, but also viable solutions - Well I'm sorry but I don't have a solution to this mess - because it's already been put on production worlds with less than a week of public beta.
If the company demonstrates a complete disregard for their customers in the testing phase, what use is feedback now that it's live and un-changeable?
 
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Victor Kruger

Well-Known Member
Thats ofc very disconcerting but sadly not a shock or surprise lulu, however 2.185 is just the usual change to enable least event sets to be sold and tbh id have been shocked had they updated or dealt with the pvp xp issues, or anything else from 2.184 yet... proactive has never been one of innos strong points imo.
 

Ethereal

Member
Just some thoughts below as someone who mainly participates in PvP related content. I don't care for quests nor jobbing so forgive my inexperience regarding those areas of the game.

●Increased XP:
- Double the XP of jobs in the center area. Embrace the special area, give people some sort of an incentive to grind XP other than building church. Church was a giant mistake to begin with, but there's no way Inno will go back on this (too late now anyway) so at least give other options to 'catch up'.
-Give fortbattles a max XP of 60k (or more). Make it easier for tanks to reach the maximum as well. I should NOT receive 5000 xp for getting 140 dodges while a mere 20k dmg basically guarantees max XP. UP rewards are fine.
-I like the suggestion above of a max of 15k XP. Incentivize people to play the game actively, not passively. Don't like duels? KO yourself or stop crying.
-Offer XP increase pots (e.g. +25% for 8 hours) in the UP shop. I don't know if it is really necessary, but it'd be a nice touch. I like being buffed up.

●Duels:
-Offer better ways of decreasing duel levels. Right now you're being punished for being 'good' at duels, which is completely backwards. Maybe cap duel levels at 300 and make it more difficult to increase it as well. Make it more of an accomplishment.
-Nerf headshots to +30% dmg. With the recent update it feels like the dmg is a little bit out of hand and since it would be too much work for Inno to nerf all duel weapons retrospectively, this seems like a decent band-aid fix. I am not a pro duellist though so I'd love to see different viewpoints on this.

●Fort battles:
-Nerf tower bonuses. I believe defenses only got stronger with the past update (since stats increase with towers as well). I'd try something like 0.30 ATT, 0.20 DEF, 0.20 CLASS BONUS on mediums. For reference, right now it's 0.34 ATT, 0.25DEF, 0.25 CLASS). This needs testing, but I imagine that is too much to ask.
-Get rid of the 'win a battle' daily quest. Change it to participate in a battle. We all know why.
-Add HP/Energy pots as a reward if you KO.
-It might be good to add an option to see how many people instead of towns are participating in a battle when starting. Though this might be abused by people who only care about winning. Not that it differs much with only playing defense.

●Crafting:
Obviously the update was incomplete so any criticism regarding the new products is obsolete.

●Quests:
Stating the obvious here. Change XP rewards to XP potions (1% for small ones, 5% medium, 10% large, 25% story mode?). Give people an incentive to do them, because to me they seem like a waste of time. Reward the questers!

●Class bonuses:
This has been discussed many times, and many people more invested than I am have suggested changes to these as they are completely outdated. It is a disgrace there have been so little changes in 14 years time.

This is worth a read and I am sure some options are still valid up to this day. I'd be fine with any of these changes. My personal idea is the following, bearing in mind that minimal effort is what we receive from Inno, if even that. I don't think we have to hope for an option to change our classes at a certain level - I don't think the ancient code could handle this.
Green = buff
Red = nerf
Orange = new or adjusted

-Adventurers: (PREM DOUBLES BONUSES)
The chance to find a product when working a job is increased by 20%.
The chance to find an item during work is increased by 20%.
You can use any fort barracks or hotel.
The chance to get hurt while working a job is lowered by 20%.

Increases resistance by 20%, 30% with premium. (I am not sure about this, needs testing. This would mean 500 resistance as an advent with Corti/Bull + summer spirits, 540 resistance with premium.) Could be abused by pure resist builds perhaps? Though I doubt they neglect 1500 normal hits from Union.
OR Chance to ghost begins when 3k dmg has been taken (2k with premium), replacing the 2 hits requirement from before. % chance to ghost increased to 60%, 70% with prem.


-Dueller: (PREM DOUBLES BONUSES)
The speed on the map is increased by 20%.
The motivation for duelling raises faster. It is increased 40% faster.
You receive 15% more money in a duel.
In fort battles, you have the chance of 10% to score a critical hit. Critical hits deduct an additional 10% from the maximum health points.
You can perform duels within a radius of 15 minutes without traveling there.
Appearance bonus of 5% when initiating a duel.

-Worker: (PREM DOUBLES BONUSES)
Experience earnt from jobs, duels and fort battles is increased by 10%.
You pay 2% less banking fees and pay no market fees.

When constructing buildings in town you receive a bonus of 5% to your labor points.
When working a job you receive a bonus of 5% to your labor points.
The motivation to construct buildings in town rises by 10% faster.
In fort battles, your aiming and dodging are boosted by 25%.

-Soldier: (PREM DOUBLES BONUSES)
For each skill point given to the skill health points you receive an additional 5 health points for your character.
Soldiers pay 30% less upgrade costs when upgrading gear. (The amount of gear needed stays the same)
In duels you receive a bonus of 15% to your tactic skill.
In fort battles, you increase the leadership skill for you and your four neighbors by 25% of your own leadership skill.

I have tried to keep these as easy to implement as possible. Most of these changes would merely require changing a few numbers. The adventurers obviously need some more work. That's because they do need more work. I am sadly aware that the chance of any of these changes every being implemented is close to zero, but one could hope. This game had a lot of potential, which over the years has been squandered. It's not only Inno's fault; browsergames are kinda old, but they have certainly not helped.
 
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DeletedUser15368

Thats ofc very disconcerting but sadly not a shock or surprise lulu, however 2.185 is just the usual change to enable least event sets to be sold and tbh id have been shocked had they updated or dealt with the pvp xp issues, or anything else from 2.184 yet... proactive has never been one of innos strong points imo.
yeah fair enough, it's a patch at best, not a full version update.
 
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