Feedback Update 2.166

Goober Pyle

The West Team
Fort Balancing Strategist
I disagree, I have reached 450 once, hence the achievement must be given. If the achievement was implemented later is of no importance. Many achievements have been given for previous feats. I have not knocked out 750 people since yesterday, but that achievements I have received as well as many others.

Why do some achievements count from the day you started the server and others from the day the achievement was implemented? I believe it is because counters where introduced for some things but not others. In our statistics there could easily be an "Maximum duel level reached", however there is not.

It is deeply unfair to treat achievements differently, even when I can show proof that I have done all the requirements specified for the particular achievement. If not you have to rename it "Reach duel level 450 after the first of February 2022". If you do not its a false achievement as many players could have actually done the requirements but not be given their reward.

I for one fully support the "honesty" approach -- "since 2022-02-01"
 

lulumcnoob

Well-Known Member
Where is the prearrangement?
Where is the organized outcome?
Where is the inordinate experience?
Seems like an unpopular opinion, but
Prearrangement in the form of planning or deciding that you are going to forgo any competitiveness, and lose the duel in advance, in order to gain an inordinate amount of wins or experience.
organised outcome in the form of you are trying to break an established game mechanic to enable you to farm duel level 150s.
Where is the inordinate experience? Are you serious? That's the entire point of losing MOST of your duels on purpose to push down your duelling level so you can keep farming non-duellers at level 150. See the recent speed world results.

It's not really pushing, by the definition given in the game rules, more of an exploit and a fair play violation.
 
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Dr Roth

Well-Known Member
Oh come on, calm down Roth, the game didn't track what duel levels you've had previously, I understand you are upset because now you can't infinitely farm duel level 150s, by purposefully losing most of your duels, if you go for it. Oh well.
I understand that the code in the game does not track this. So therefor I have provided support with proof of this. I find it rude to say "do it again if you want the achievement"
If a player can prove that he has done what is required, support should just tick the necessary boxes and give the achievements. I don't see any reason why the level of who I farm has anything to do with anything regarding this.
 

lulumcnoob

Well-Known Member
Support tools don't include a button to just award an achievement that you ask for, it's an automated process, and the achievement only just now exists to be tracked by the game.
It's much easier, and faster, to just reach level 450 than it is for Inno to develop a new tool to award an achievement.
 
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Goober Pyle

The West Team
Fort Balancing Strategist
Seems like an unpopular opinion, but
Prearrangement in the form of planning or deciding that you are going to forgo any competitiveness, and lose the duel in advance, in order to gain an inordinate amount of experience.
organised outcome in the form of you are trying to break an established game mechanic in order to gain an inordinate amount of experience.
Where is the inordinate experience? Are you serious? That's the entire point of losing MOST of your duels on purpose to push down your duelling level so you can keep farming non-duellers at level 150. See the recent speed world results.

I just don't see an activity that is driven by one player for their own benefit while the third party involved does nothing and their identity is inconsequential is "prearrangement" -- I consider "prearrangement" to mean "conspiracy"; two people have to agree to a plan of action and take steps to further that action

Likewise, for the same reason, I just don't see an activity that is driven by one player for their own benefit while the third party involved does nothing and their identity is inconsequential achieves an "organized outcome"

I don't see how losing the _standard amount_ of duel experience is in any way "inordinate"


What I would consider "bible pushing":
You are a dueler in a town
you ask all your townies to be in or near your town during a specified window of time (prearrangement)
you temporarily leave that town and bible duel all said townies (exploitation) to lower your duel experience (organized outcome) by a substantial amount (inordinate experience)

similar with allies where you don't need the exploitative bit of leaving town. In this case I would even include as "prearrangement" an ally forum/chatroom post announcing your intent and requesting anything like "so please hang around the fort after the battle" or "give me a heads up if you are about to hit the barracks"; the authority of the ally forum providing a credible claim of conspiracy in absentia
 

lulumcnoob

Well-Known Member
I just don't see an activity that is driven by one player for their own benefit while the third party involved does nothing and their identity is inconsequential is "prearrangement" -- I consider "prearrangement" to mean "conspiracy"; two people have to agree to a plan of action and take steps to further that action
Yeah I'll concede that it's not "pre-arranged" in the exact wording of the rule.

Likewise, for the same reason, I just don't see an activity that is driven by one player for their own benefit while the third party involved does nothing and their identity is inconsequential achieves an "organized outcome"
The non-competitiveness of going into a duel to lose it on purpose, with the intention of lowering your duelling level to circumvent a game mechanic, is the outcome that you have organised, albeit without the consent of the other party.
Don't get me wrong, duelling is fecked up and this is the only way to viably have people to duel against - it's still at odds with the spirit of duelling, in my opinion.

I don't see how losing the _standard amount_ of duel experience is in any way "inordinate"
Again, I don't have a problem with people losing duels or duelling exp, I take issue with losing on purpose, to enable a player to excessively farm non-duellers at level 150. Besides, it's not what you lose that's inordinate, it's the gains of this exploit that are excessive.

Everyone seemed to have looked at the new achievements and immediately thought of ways to exploit the game to achieve them - because that's the ONLY way to achieve some of them. How's that for a sense of pride and accomplishment.

Honestly I know this is a non-issue relative to the overall health of the game - this losing on purpose business is just a pet-peeve of mine - it's disrespectful to the pioneers of the art of duelling and a mockery of our once great game.

Loosely related thought to stop my moaning on this issue, would it be legal, in your opinion, to systematically and non-consensually lose against a player who is using the exploit in order to push their duelling level up and out of the 150 range? When does inordinate become inordinate?
 
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Dr Roth

Well-Known Member
I am duelling everyone, not sure how that is exploiting. If people dont want to get duelled they can easily get protection. If they don't, to me they lose their right to complain.

I will get the achievements, but it is 100% incorrect that I have to do the feats twice to get an achievement due to broken game code.

I disagree with yo Lulu, to me it seems yo have a romantic picture how the west should be. However new gear has been introduced and maybe the intention for Inno is to lower your duel level by losing duels since they have made the bible available and you lose duel xp when losing a duel. The mysterious potion is not fit for purpose as we all know. It is not exploiting, it is following the rules and game mechanics that have been put into the game by Inno. If we have personal opinions that it's correct or incorrect matter very little.

And yes in the past I have lost duels to bring a players level up so he couldnt hit my low level town members. I see no problem with this. It's just another form of duelling.
 

Goober Pyle

The West Team
Fort Balancing Strategist
When does inordinate become inordinate?

IMHO: when the values far exceed what a player might reasonably achieve without the cooperation of others at their expense

Note: having your whole town soften some one up and lose without trying to win to raise their level so the big gun can finally collect the massive bounty would also be pushing in my opinion
 

roland jacobs

Well-Known Member
IMHO: when the values far exceed what a player might reasonably achieve without the cooperation of others at their expense

Hey tanks, go get creamed in two rounds so my damage char can get twice the bonds and experience.

Note: having your whole town soften some one up and lose without trying to win to raise their level so the big gun can finally collect the massive bounty would also be pushing in my opinion

Some would call this teamwork, especially if that char was picking on the town and had a free pass to duel because their level is too low to get hit by the enforcer.
 

Goober Pyle

The West Team
Fort Balancing Strategist
Hey tanks, go get creamed in two rounds so my damage char can get twice the bonds and experience.
Yeah. Totally agree that was pushing

Some would call this teamwork, especially if that char was picking on the town and had a free pass to duel because their level is too low to get hit by the enforcer.
Agree, hence the point about “without trying to win” eg if they used a bible to avoid maybe accidentally getting the ko themselves
 

Artem124

Well-Known Member
can yall add one more duel achievement???

we need a money achievement! because we always steal money from people when dueling. so lets have one like ex

steal 5k / 25k / 100k / 500k / and last one 1m .. that would be a good one for dueling.. bounties wont count towards it
 

C0OPeR

Well-Known Member
Win 7500 duels, oh, try to do this in a dead world :))) even in colorado it's too hard.
it can be done ... but duel level 450 , impossible as for level 449 for 450 , u need minimum duel level 321 ! imagine colorado only have 2 person and it close for 321 , means when u catched duel level 420 , u need around a year to be level 450 :D
 

Victor Kruger

Well-Known Member
Win 7500 duels, oh, try to do this in a dead world :))) even in colorado it's too hard.

If your going to start at lvl 150 ofc it is, its supposed to be for duelers who like to duel a lot not berry pickers or respecced or workers. Should have been dueling from lvl 10 onwards, this kind of award at extreme levels is purely for those very few who specialise and always have. Its not for anyone starting out now.

There should be very few Serial Killers or legendary gunslingers and top crafters or up to date questers etc ... thats the point of specialising to excel.

I Just done it on FB and that is specced as a pure HP tank ..Even 10k is not that hard on an old world if dedicated, it barely took me 3 weeks to do 200 duels not even prem and thats with FF questing and RL etc rolled in. Another 2500 at this pace means 10k would be totally doable by xmas, sure id go full on relentless mean machine & prem energy/class to do so and berry pickers would get on the end of it a lot more than usual but .....its really only about dedication nothing more, old world or not.
 
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Victor Kruger

Well-Known Member
can yall add one more duel achievement???

we need a money achievement! because we always steal money from people when dueling. so lets have one like ex

steal 5k / 25k / 100k / 500k / and last one 1m .. that would be a good one for dueling.. bounties wont count towards it

Too easy, ive easily stolen 1M + already on LV and so have you in one hit ... make it 5k / 50k / 500k / 1M / 10M
 

Artem124

Well-Known Member
me too . luckly 1m from one person :D .. but another side duel achievement that's pure luck to complete since not everyone carries money on them.. unless you pay someone to hold money in their hands and get keod :p
 
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